After the recent rejection of Kiters speed runs I got to thinking...

Kite boarding cannot be regarded as sailing because:

The power source is not connected to the vessel.
A kite is a legitimate power source but it has to be attached to the vessel (ie Jacobs Ladder).
The vessell has no bow or stern, therefore no port or starboard side.
Without a defined Port or Starboard no right of way priveledges apply

Now if this is true, kiters have no right of way over windsurfers.
They should also be excluded from Sailing clubs and sailing areas.

Theoretically, if I were to go out and run down a kiter on my board, the kiter would be at fault for failing to give way to a sailing vessell !!

Or I could ring the police and say there is someone water ski ing in a sailing area

Feel the heat baby

Hmmmmm [}:)][}:)]

PS. Note Category of Post.

excellent points whippingboy

Go post that in the kiting forums... I'll just make myself absent..

Q. what is the nickname of a spinnaker ? A. the kite....not sailing ????[}:)]

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Richiefish said...

Q. what is the nickname of a spinnaker ? A. the kite....not sailing ????[}:)]

Ever see a yacht with no mast and just a spinnaker held by hand?

Also, I guess the reason a spinnaker is (colloquially) referred to as a 'kite' is because it does not resemble a sail.... they call it a kite as it is so obviously different.
Like calling your mate bluey or slim.

Just said my bit on the kiting site.

The point about not being connected ie the board and the strings is a valid one.

Basically i believed

Full powered by wind only and on a body of water would= world speed record ?

Dispite the craft /methods

oh oh oh the kite mere continues


(Like talking about the poor whipped and abandoned .)

PS Rather get run over than get the water dogs darking.

Lets be fair here.
Kiters should be considered for world records providing that they lie on their boards in order to provide a direct connection between power source and vessel.

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whippingboy said...

After the recent rejection of Kiters speed runs I got to thinking...

Kite boarding cannot be regarded as sailing because:

The power source is not connected to the vessel.
A kite is a legitimate power source but it has to be attached to the vessel (ie Jacobs Ladder).

Kite > String > Person > Vessel
Sail > Mast > Tendon > Vessel

Meh.

What about a Displacement Sailing record which we could all try for most days. Observers along the course would disqualify anyone who planes, like walkers not allowed to lift both feet.

No I'm not planning on running any kiters over
just had a legal beagle moment. .

Interesting to note that kites (AKA traction kites) were and still are used to power buggies (3 wheel)

Not sure what it's called but the kite is attached to the buggy, not the driver, they aparently race them in the UK.

PS I'm actually trying to help the kiters, because if/when they are banned many will blame the windsurfers ., and some of my friends are kiters !

PS : Note public forum, made up of many different water sports they all have there place, and just because someone doesn't Windsurf , surf whatever it doesn't do anyone any favours to throw around absolute dribble all the time, can't you just get over it and be constructive apart from continually slagging off Kiting??,
The speed record was disallowed so what, what makes the whole thing pretty non eventful is the fact they disallowed it after the record was broken, this story writes itself right there.
Move on, try your energies on something constructive like improving your skills on the water instead of throwing stones.
It's almost like watching my kids argue over a toy.

a kite does not generate thrust

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windsufering said...

a kite does not generate thrust

Consider this. The record of 50.xx kts was set in approximately 40-45kts of wind. If a kite is just 'pulled' along by the wind how can it 'sail' faster than the wind? Case in point, enroll in physics 101.

Semantics aside let's consider this. If you were Antone at this point in time would you still consider yourself the world sailing speed record holder? I know if I was in his shoes I wouldn't. You'd have to be a fair douche and in serious denial to walk around still calling yourself the world record holder.

In my opinion the time where windsurfers hold the record has passed. Maybe with the prefect run in perfect conditions we might crack 50, but I think not too far in the future the kiters will be pushing 60kts.

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Flux said...

PS : Note public forum, made up of many different water sports they all have there place, and just because someone doesn't Windsurf , surf whatever it doesn't do anyone any favours to throw around absolute dribble all the time, can't you just get over it and be constructive apart from continually slagging off Kiting??,
The speed record was disallowed so what, what makes the whole thing pretty non eventful is the fact they disallowed it after the record was broken, this story writes itself right there.
Move on, try your energies on something constructive like improving your skills on the water instead of throwing stones.
It's almost like watching my kids argue over a toy.

I disagree. This discussion has it's place: The kiters have a good case to complain at the way it was decided blah blah. Windsurfers and yachties have a good case to argue that kiting is not sailing (there ARE very major differences!) blah blah blah.
Either way it is worthy of debate.
Further this thread is a humourous one (note the category as the O.P said) so it has it's place.
Kiters call us poleys, polehuggers, pole smokers, and we call them names too. So what.... 'twill always be.

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Mark _australia said...

Flux said...

PS : Note public forum, made up of many different water sports they all have there place, and just because someone doesn't Windsurf , surf whatever it doesn't do anyone any favours to throw around absolute dribble all the time, can't you just get over it and be constructive apart from continually slagging off Kiting??,
The speed record was disallowed so what, what makes the whole thing pretty non eventful is the fact they disallowed it after the record was broken, this story writes itself right there.
Move on, try your energies on something constructive like improving your skills on the water instead of throwing stones.
It's almost like watching my kids argue over a toy.

I disagree. This discussion has it's place: The kiters have a good case to complain at the way it was decided blah blah. Windsurfers and yachties have a good case to argue that kiting is not sailing (there ARE very major differences!) blah blah blah.
Either way it is worthy of debate.
Further this thread is a humourous one (note the category as the O.P said) so it has it's place.
Kiters call us poleys, polehuggers, pole smokers, and we call them names too. So what.... 'twill always be.

You probably didn't notice the other posts that have obviously, to those who read prior to my post, now been moderated and removed from this thread it is comments such as the removed ones and a general observation over time on this forum, Given they have now been removed it kinda makes my earlier post look questionable but either way my point was valid before they were removed.
I have no problem with anyone or any disipline using the water when they are responsible and aware of there surroundings and others.
I concur the argument is sound and worth debate but it always seems to go beyond that thumbs down whatever, it's a fact.
Carry on with your discussion.

Do i have to teach you how a sail works ?

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windsufering said...

Do i have to teach you how a sail works ?

Ooh, please enlighten us. This should be good.

do you know much about low and high presure that generate lift how the wind moves faster on one side than the other

the shape of a planes wing or a bird

just like the shape of a kite ?

i am sorry i am wrong just like the isaf i think you should advise them that they work on the same principles ?

I don't care whether it is sailing or not. I still won't go out of my way because of the frigging lines all over.

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windsufering said...

do you know much about low and high presure that generate lift how the wind moves faster on one side than the other

I advise you to check out this site:
www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/K-12/airplane/wrong1.html

It will show you that you are wrong. [}:)]

Wasn't this supposed to be humour

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nebbian said...

windsufering said...

do you know much about low and high presure that generate lift how the wind moves faster on one side than the other

I advise you to check out this site:
www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/K-12/airplane/wrong1.html

It will show you that you are wrong. [}:)]

Oh fer Chr!$t$ sake, Nebbian! Now you've done my head in!

HEY EVERYBODY! Do NOT follow Neb's link!!!! It is BAD BAD BAD!

Scientists tell LIES!!! Look at those guys who "discovered" Piltdown man! And that Korean guy who faked his data!

No no no no no....ok then Nebbian, how DO sails work??? In simple language, please...

In simple language?

The air goes downwind.

The sail makes the air change direction a little bit.

The air pushes back (it doesn't like being told where to go), and puts a force onto your sail


In even simpler terms:
F = ma

Who gives a f**k

Windsurfing aint a motor sport, woopee sh!t

amazing nebs never listened to the physics teach

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windsufering said...

Do i have to teach you how a sail works ?

Dude, I don't think kitesurfers should have the record (as it is not sailing) BUT seriously......

a kite works the same as a sail.... it is a wing.... both have a thick leading edge, and a curved foil leading to a thin trailing edge.... and are placed at an angle of attack such that the air flow is faster on one side , leading to lift.
Otherwise, they could not go upwind.


an argument relying on 'how a sail works' will be the same for a kite as it is for a WS sail

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oldie said...

What about a Displacement Sailing record which we could all try for most days. Observers along the course would disqualify anyone who planes, like walkers not allowed to lift both feet.

Walking is the equivalent of holding a competition for who can whisper the loudest. Be quite hilarious a displacement non-planing sailing record.

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sausage said...



Walking is the equivalent of holding a competition for who can whisper the loudest. Be quite hilarious a displacement non-planing sailing record.

Not so hilarious to the owners of the displacement hulled yachts.

The whole argument is ridiculous because its plainly obvious that windsurfers and kites are too different craft and cannot seriously be pitted against each other.

The only logical thing to do is to introduce classes and have class world records.

I am sure that the moth owners would love to know who is the fastest moth sailor. The 12 metres would love to know who has the fastest 12 meter etc. etc.

Therefore kiting would have a world record and windsurfing would have a world record. Argument over.