Hi everyone,

I'm thinking of getting a bigger board for lighter winds - specifically an older JP SLW 165 - can get this second hand at the moment.

I currently have a Rocket Wide 120 (width 77) and largest sail is a 7.8 e-type. Because I gained some weight - was about 100kg in summer, I'm finding the Rocket to be good from 15 upwards, but in lulls I literally *drop* off the plane - clearly a weight issue. I also now sink the Rocket to mid-shin height when uphauling the 7.8 in a 5mm wetsuit.

I'm now down to 97, and steadily heading down to 85-90kg again by next season, so this should improve matters a lot.

I'm looking for something to plane in the 12-15kn range. But I don't want to invest in bigger sails than the 7.8m if I can help it. How would I go on a JP SLW as a 85-90kg with a stock 56 fin? Everyone seems to be on mid 8 to early 9m sails.

I realise I won't plane as early, but would it be fun to ride this kind of board with a 7.8?

I'm similar weight my light wind board is an old 2006 falcon 131 use 40cm fin I can get going in 15-18knts with a 6.3 race sail, sailing on an inland lake is a lot different, as an example the gusts can be up to 20 knts the lulls 5knts so I just rig for the gusts no point having 8m+ sail because when there's no wind you don't move.

I have the older smaller (154L) SLW.
I am a bit over 100kg and have used as small 7.5 with a 50cm on it.
This was only as I had limited gear away on holidays and wasn't planing on my smaller set up.
It worked okay, but I was sailing in a stronger wind for this board than I would normally do.
The sweet spot for the SLW is definitely an 8.6 with a 56 or a 9.5 with a 58 in the really light wind.
I think yours being that bit longer and wider would be even less fun with that small of a sail. It is a fair bit of board to at our weight to get unstuck with that size sail.
I would say try and find around an 8.6 or bigger and I reckon you will really love the light wind days.

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ballast said..
It is a fair bit of board to at our weight to get unstuck with that size sail.

Afraid you're right. I'll have to weight up big kit vs WindSUPing for light wind days.

There's a big difference between a 78 and 92 cm board in terms of planing earlier and gliding through lulls, imho. Local guy got the SLW to use with his 8.5 and found another "gear" so to speak. Wider boards work fine with a bit smaller sails (I wouldn't recommend a 5.5) and with a lot of people moving to foils, you may find a bigger sail more easily than in the past if you want to go bigger. At your size, the extra width and volume will be nice.

I'd prefer to go 8.3 or 8.6 on the rocket than get the bigger board. I havnt sailed a slw but have an ultrasonic & tried a 7.6 on a formula board years ago, works fine & you might be surprised, unsticking the board easier with the smaller lighter sail but having the drive through the lulls is where you'll lack.

Everyone hates big sails, it's just an adjustment period, sail them enough & they feel ok, my 9.5's feel more like a 7.8 now that i'm really used to the big sails & I actually do like the extra drive they provide.

The JP videos show the SLW with a 6.7 powered up.
A bigger fin on the Rocket could work wonders and be a lot cheaper too.
I have a Starboard UltrSonic147 and go down to 7.0.

I have sailed JP 165 and SB147 - JP is a bit more biassed to lighter winds, so more affected by chop once enough wind to power up the 7.8 - but will definitely work, especially as you shed kg!

you seem to have made up your mind about the JP SLW ...

i am even heavier than 100 kilos and have a JP SLW92/165 liter board
joewindsurfer.blogspot.com/2014/09/jp-super-lightwind-slw.html
mine came with a 66 cm Select Slalom fin that I use with 10 meter sails
used to use four cambered full on race sail, but finding freerace is just so much easier to handle
have used the board with an 8.5 and Curtis 57 cm fin
someone mentioned chop - such a wide board smacks the water if the chop is not all lined up ...
the board can be a starter for foiling too

personally am trying narrower boards ...
always use a Mistral Equipe 2 XR longboard in light, light winds
and have used a Mistral Equipe One XR with a 7 meter sail in 40-60 kph winds

with the weight I also like longer than current boards and just a few more liters
am currently trying an AHD SL1 140/81 cm board and is 240 cm long
however, it is aimed at 8.x sails for me and 20-40 kph winds

the idea of a bigger fin is not a bad one and is less $$$
try a used one

I say 7.5 is too small. I have made that mistake with a 135L before.....
By the time you have enough wind in a 7.5 to hang your weight off the boom and get out on the rail - its allmoossstt too much wind for the board/fin combo and it rails up badly in only a little more wind. You end up with a wind range of about 2-4kn.

I reckon on something that big and wide, 8.6 is your min as you suggested.

^ +1

in 7.5 winds for a 100+ kilo rider, there WILL be chop
this is NOT fun with a 92 cm wide board
unless wind and chop are aligned - rare here

for me - the more wind n chop = less sail and less width
often i take board width and divide by 10 for ideal sail size

92/10 = 9.2
80/10 = 8.0

you get the idea

Alternatively you can learn to sail big boards in those conditions, formula & rsx lightweights are holding down in 30 knots.

I agree 7.8 isn't great for a slw but some people just want extra float & dont want big sail for them sure do it, the slw should plane earlier than the rocket. Personally I match board to sail size & i have a board for each size from 5.6-9.7 & then on the day i might go a sail size either side of that.

The width divided by 10 I guess is ok for freeride, but a slalom or freeslalom board like the slw a 70w board should be matched to 7.8, 80w 8.6 etc, so imo for those boards that rule should be changed to width/10 then go to next sail size up- 63w/10 + next size = 6.7-7m.

Thanks for the formula. I like it. My Rocket Wide 120l 77w is perfectly matched to my 7.8. I could also run one size larger if I had say an 8.5. I also have a Starship 100l 62w which matches perfectly to my 5.7 or 6.6.

In your experience does weight loss transfer proportionally to sail size? So a reduction from 100 to 85 (17%) would mean a reduction from 9.2 to 7.8 (18%)?

The cheapest option is to downgrade myself, save money on food and drink which would fund the bigger fin for the Rocket. I have a 43 select freeslam - I see there is also a 49 available. I may need to look at weed fins due to lack of water depth where I normally sail.

Most expensive option is going to be getting the Slw, 490 mast, and 8x or 9x sail, new boom. With more kit to transport and store....

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mkseven said..
Alternatively you can learn to sail big boards in those conditions, formula & rsx lightweights are holding down in 30 knots.

I agree with the above, run big sails on big boards in light wind. If needed you can increase the wind range of the sail and board/fin combination dramatically by just changing the angles you sail. What is way overpowered on a reach is perfect when pointing high or running deep.

Whats the fuss ?
My smallest board is 77 wide . On it I use 9.4 down to 6.2 . The 9.4 is a tad big but totally doable .
I used to use a 6.2 on a 90 wide Starboard Go if i had to . It worked just fine .
ps; im heavy.

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dhat said..
Thanks for the formula. I like it. My Rocket Wide 120l 77w is perfectly matched to my 7.8. I could also run one size larger if I had say an 8.5. I also have a Starship 100l 62w which matches perfectly to my 5.7 or 6.6.

In your experience does weight loss transfer proportionally to sail size? So a reduction from 100 to 85 (17%) would mean a reduction from 9.2 to 7.8 (18%)?

The cheapest option is to downgrade myself, save money on food and drink which would fund the bigger fin for the Rocket. I have a 43 select freeslam - I see there is also a 49 available. I may need to look at weed fins due to lack of water depth where I normally sail.

Most expensive option is going to be getting the Slw, 490 mast, and 8x or 9x sail, new boom. With more kit to transport and store....

I've sailed at weight from 80kg to 120kg injury, food & alcohol suck

In the past I dropped from 120kg to 82kg, it wasn't until I dropped below 85 kg that I started to change what/how I rigged either more downhaul or one board or sail size smaller. But what hugely changed was you plane earlier, you aren't as sore after sailing, gybing, jumping etc all are easier. I hate how i'm sailing in the last few years as i've been ignoring injury & some other stuff but im slowly turning it around.

Dropping the weight is by far the most important performance improvement you can make to your sailing, not only that less food & booze sort of helps pay for nice new kit. I also have found from fight training that above 90kg speed noticebly decreases (or I guess above what is anyones relevant BMI it decreases) & I think it transfers across to windsurfing, I look at the windsurfing vids we've made in last few years & I think arrgh you slow fat barstard, why are you dropping that gybe, that jump was terrible etc because body slow, you just don't engage the gears as well.

Regarding a slw i don't know, albeit it's been a weird season here but I havnt used my ultrasonic once, I got it actually for foiling so I didnt trash my 127 isonic, now I don't even use the ultra for foiling. It has it's place for sailing but I prefer being on the i127 & foiling on a tabou manta 115.

Those big boards do take a little bit to unstick, above a certain width/relevant volume the width creates drag. One of my all time favourite light wind boards is the falcon 131 like choco has, only 79w but importantly it has monoconcave & a long rocker line so unstuck really early (& they are bloody quick).

& then are you preoccupied with planing, a windsurfer lt, raceboard or the right windsup teaches you alot of board & sail handling skills, it just maybe isn't quite as exciting but I have a ball whenever I sail my starboard freeride windsup.

I have a Mistral 137 (82 wide). I've used it and it works well with sails from 8.7m2 to 6.3m2. All I do is reduce the size of the fin as I go down the sail sizes.
- 8.7m2 - 46cm pointer
- 7.9m2 - 40 / 42 cm pointer or 35(deep) weed speed - This is the best combo - 34kt 2 sec
- 7.1m2 - 36 / 38 cm pointer or 35(deep) weed speed
- 6.3m2 - 34 / 36 cm pointer or 31(deep) weed speed

Chris Lockwood has used his 137 with a 7.1 and 6.3 sail. He uses weed speed fins 33 and 31 deep respectively and has done over 40kts with these combos.

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Imax1 said..
Whats the fuss ?
My smallest board is 77 wide . On it I use 9.4 down to 6.2 . The 9.4 is a tad big but totally doable .
I used to use a 6.2 on a 90 wide Starboard Go if i had to . It worked just fine .
ps; im heavy.

i use my 6.2 in winds about 40-60 kph - others will be out on 4,8-5.5 and small, small boards
as stated, i am over 100 kilos currently
no way those wind conditions are conducive to a 90 cm board here
for me such a combo just does not work

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joe windsurf said..

Imax1 said..
Whats the fuss ?
My smallest board is 77 wide . On it I use 9.4 down to 6.2 . The 9.4 is a tad big but totally doable .
I used to use a 6.2 on a 90 wide Starboard Go if i had to . It worked just fine .
ps; im heavy.

i use my 6.2 in winds about 40-60 kph - others will be out on 4,8-5.5 and small, small boards
as stated, i am over 100 kilos currently
no way those wind conditions are conducive to a 90 cm board here
for me such a combo just does not work

Go sail with a 50 something kg rsx girl, she'll be on a bigger board, sail & fin, & maybe she can give you a few tips.

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joe windsurf said..

Imax1 said..
Whats the fuss ?
My smallest board is 77 wide . On it I use 9.4 down to 6.2 . The 9.4 is a tad big but totally doable .
I used to use a 6.2 on a 90 wide Starboard Go if i had to . It worked just fine .
ps; im heavy.

i use my 6.2 in winds about 40-60 kph - others will be out on 4,8-5.5 and small, small boards
as stated, i am over 100 kilos currently
no way those wind conditions are conducive to a 90 cm board here
for me such a combo just does not work

Also without footstraps, you have SO much less control over that wide board. You simply can't get even a fraction of the range without being in the straps. It makes a lot of sense that you prefer the longboard as they do not need so much foot control.

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mkseven said..
Alternatively you can learn to sail big boards in those conditions, formula & rsx lightweights are holding down in 30 knots.

I agree 7.8 isn't great for a slw but some people just want extra float & dont want big sail for them sure do it, the slw should plane earlier than the rocket. Personally I match board to sail size & i have a board for each size from 5.6-9.7 & then on the day i might go a sail size either side of that.

The width divided by 10 I guess is ok for freeride, but a slalom or freeslalom board like the slw a 70w board should be matched to 7.8, 80w 8.6 etc, so imo for those boards that rule should be changed to width/10 then go to next sail size up- 63w/10 + next size = 6.7-7m.

Formula and RS:X are doing upwind/downwind. Reaching on a wide board in 30 knots is a total PITA. I'm saying that as someone who was on a 100cm wide board every time it was 15kts or less BF (Before Foil).

That being said - I totally agree that something 7.5-8.5 works fine on a wide board especially if you want a bit extra float on those chilly days, you are a bit bigger or really like planing through the lulls.

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Paducah said..

mkseven said..
Alternatively you can learn to sail big boards in those conditions, formula & rsx lightweights are holding down in 30 knots.

I agree 7.8 isn't great for a slw but some people just want extra float & dont want big sail for them sure do it, the slw should plane earlier than the rocket. Personally I match board to sail size & i have a board for each size from 5.6-9.7 & then on the day i might go a sail size either side of that.

The width divided by 10 I guess is ok for freeride, but a slalom or freeslalom board like the slw a 70w board should be matched to 7.8, 80w 8.6 etc, so imo for those boards that rule should be changed to width/10 then go to next sail size up- 63w/10 + next size = 6.7-7m.

Formula and RS:X are doing upwind/downwind. Reaching on a wide board in 30 knots is a total PITA. I'm saying that as someone who was on a 100cm wide board every time it was 15kts or less BF (Before Foil).

That being said - I totally agree that something 7.5-8.5 works fine on a wide board especially if you want a bit extra float on those chilly days, you are a bit bigger or really like planing through the lulls.

Also, Isn't the SLW designed to need smaller sails than FW?

It's not just about the maximum board width, it's the tail volume/shape/width that keeps you going through the holes.

I'm a big jigger and sail for fun not speed records so my everyday board is a 154 Magic Ride @ 84cm wide, it has a pulled in, low volume tail with most volume around the mast track area. It planes super quick but falls off the plane even faster.

Mine and Adam the roofer's light wind boards are old 155 GO's @ 85cm wide, they have a wide tail with heaps of volume in the tail and most volume between the mast track and the tail. It slogs like you've left the hand brake on, but once you kick it onto the plane it flies and hates coming off the plane.

Two boards that would seem identical to most people that are chalk and cheese. Both sailed with 56-60cm fins and 9m NCX sail (not as much low down grunt as a cambered sail) by a 104kg punter. Adam sails his with big cambered sails.

Nearly everyone we sail with has a "megabucks" JP SLW that is fantastic in flat water but a handful in chop so is usually left in the garage in case a seagull lands on it and leaves a ding. Adam and myself are tight@rses with our 150 GO's that weigh a ton, cost $150 to buy, sail well with big sails in light winds and handle chop like a battleship. You can even use them as a handy loading ramp if you need to get your ride-on into a trailer

Just whack on a set of foils and you'll be flying in 12 knots with a 7metre. :)

It's gone way off rails, OP was asking bout using a 7.something with slw, yes it's do-able, yes they should plane earlier than the rocket, it'll do so long before chop builds up unless you sail in a spot that builds compression waves & when it's windy there is still the rocket.

How long can you hang onto it? My point re the rsx/formula people is it's tuning & practice & matching the gear. It's often pointless changing down sail on a big board as you need the sail size to keep the board in check & this is why rsx & formula work. Sure they are upwind/downwind... so what's stopping you from visiting different points of sail? I can hold onto my 9.7 & big board when bump & jump guys are on 5's but why would I want to I have 10 other board & sail options, I don't have that necessity but others with only one option might.

Sean O'Brien wrote a great article ages ago on his carbon sugar site discussing training with formula, essentially sailing with that gear is practice & if it's blowing 25+ knots the last thing you'd want to do is take out that gear but they have to for necessity & even if it's for 30min it's a learning curve. The rsx people also have that necessity & i've watched them out sailing when im on wave kit so it's all do-able if you have to or want to.

Fwiw I reckon those youngsters are nuts as is Sean sailing training where he did as that area gets pretty mental in 20+ winds, the slalom club will not race there, too challenging & too much damage.

& actually big boards aren't too bad with chop when set up right because the width hovers the board clear of the moguls.

When I had my 90 wide Starboard Go I found it hard to get planing with the bigger sails . It stuck to the water . 7 m and under the thing jumped onto the plane . Handled big chop no problem . Landing was not that pretty but still doable .
Ive tried lots of different early planing options and by far the best is a longish 78 to 80 wide . For heavy I don't think short and wide is best .
Never tried a LW.
Ive tried a few times trying to get a 1 m wde Formula board to cooperate . With its parallel and super sharp rails I thought it could be a good thing but it feels way too short and seems very sticky . When going it was back leg painful . I know its me or my set up that's the problem , or I'm too heavy .
For light wind planing slipperyness you can't beat a RB and are fine in rough water , only problem is it's a new challenge turning them around . Its the longer than normal wobbly transition stage when tacking and jibing that is different .I even have fun mildly carving it on small , ( very small ) , waves . Kinda like a hard core Wally. Actually a Wally probably turns way better .

The SLW may be gone - I'll find out by the end of today. I'm leaning towards this solution because around where I live in Europe (Munich) wind is typically not above 12kn on inland lakes. As discussed here and elsewhere on the forum there are other board options to consider.

I see I can use some larger sails with my 460 SDM and CX - so may only be marginally more cost. There is a boyant second hand market, with gear like older sails, masts and booms going for very cheap. I think I can get an older 9x rig flying for less than 200 EUR. New solution will be more like 800 EUR reusing the 460 - still doable.

On a freshwater lake I'd definately think about a second hand Raceboard . In sub planing conditions nothing will come close and can get crazy upwind angles with the centreboard. With centreboard down I can get a strange board lifting tilt happening in around 8 kts , it's not planing speed but quite quick . A strange slippery flowing feeling that only a Rceboard can do. Should be easy to find a Mistral One Design in your area .Then when the wind gets above 15 kts use the set up you have.

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dhat said..
The SLW may be gone - I'll find out by the end of today. I'm leaning towards this solution because around where I live in Europe (Munich) wind is typically not above 12kn on inland lakes. As discussed here and elsewhere on the forum there are other board options to consider.

I see I can use some larger sails with my 460 SDM and CX - so may only be marginally more cost. There is a boyant second hand market, with gear like older sails, masts and booms going for very cheap. I think I can get an older 9x rig flying for less than 200 EUR. New solution will be more like 800 EUR reusing the 460 - still doable.

Are there any Mistral Equipe, One Designs or F2 Lightenings available? Race boards,
Best for sub planing conditions and still great when its windy.
Team member here in WA has 30knts on his Mistral Equipe.
Up to 9.5 RB sail on them too. I use 8.2 twin cam on mine.

ok, admitted - i am a big fat amateur windsurfer who goes in light winds
(oh yeah - am old too )
as such I do have the SLW and also the Mistral Equipe 2 XR
since i am a weekend warrior, I go every weekend that I can
used to use 4 cambered 8 and 10 meter race sails
now i have a 2 cambered GA Swift 10 meter sail which is so much lighter
(not a fan of the rigging and de-rigging with the narrow sleeve, but worth the trouble)
however, I GO out when even the kites are just hovering
8-12 knots is fair game
could i have used the JP SLW ? maybe
but do NOT like it when is schlogs
raceboard glides

start at about 3 minute mark
?t=2m41s

and with this board can definitely go down to a 7 meter sail
just sayin'

Sub planing I'm playing around on my Windsup or practicing light wind skills on my smallest board. I'm currently looking to extend the planing range a bit.

Those longboards are fun though. I still have an original windsurfer (with the friction mast base) incl. all the original kit, and two original Windsurfer Expresses but these are lying in my relatives' beach house in South Africa. I'm going there in January - will take them out for a sail or two to re-live the 1980s