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Chris 249 said..

Faff said..
An excerpt from an interview with Dan Kaseler, Avanti Sails designer

www.windsurfingukmag.co.uk/string-theory-avanti-sails-dan-kaseler-interview/

Some windsurfers suggest the sport should be marketed more like cycling, as in a rounded sport that doesn't have to be as extreme as many media outlets make it to be. Do you agree with this? Could that be a way to attract larger numbers of windsurfing participants?

No. I'm going off script on this one. This is the complete wrong direction. Almost everybody has been making the argument since the late nineties that we need more recreational gear, more focus on beginner product, and more watered-down marketing. This path has been explored ad nausea-um for over fifteen years without measurable benefit.The fresh thinking is that rather re-invent the wheel, take a look at nearly every other solo sport, from surf to ski, and make note that growth has occurred when brands re-focused on the edginess that made it cool in the first place. Skiing was re-born due to the Canadian Air Force and the advent of the twin tip. Surf exploded when people started seeing posters of Slater deep in the pit on the walls of shoe stores at their local malls. I can't think of an example in our solo sport niche where diluting the messaging or making a glut of beginner products got things rolling. I say: push what's cool and the rest will follow.

That doesn't seem right. For a start, it was when windsurfing started to focus on the edge that its boom ended. Secondly, the path to a more all-round sport has NOT been explored - look at the windsurfing brands' websites. It's edge, edge and more edge.

"Nearly every other solo sport" includes SUPping, which isn't all that edgy; plastic kayaks, which are definitely not edge; road cycling, which is far from edgy; and malibu surfing, which isn't edgy.

Longboard or malibu surfing is actually edgy and with its pure glide and style is amongst the coolest of sports. Joel Tudor bought back the cool in longboarding, the reason why many picked up a longboard: Mr. Joel Tudor. Amidst the crowd and all the chaos that often goes on in Malibu, Joel always stands out and manages to keep his composure and impeccable style. Windsurfing needs cool people with a lifestyle who can inspire riders of the future. e.g. who is the Alex Knost of windsurfing ?

Course racing is the least edgy or cool section of the sport yet it attracts the largest numbers in any windsurfing discipline and is made up entirely of teenagers and continues to grow.

Techno class is seriously underestimated here in Australia, its not only the biggest single windsurfing fleet with 10000 active sailors, its in the top three one design fleets in the sailing world, surpassed only by Optimist and Laser. While laser and Optimist's are being mentioned you can be sure they are far from being the most cool or edgy boats as well.

I guess cool and edgy isn't really what grows the sport or at least that's what the numbers would suggest.

Techno class isn't one design anymore, you can have two size sails and two size fins now

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windsufering said..
Techno class isn't one design anymore, you can have two size sails and two size fins now

Same as the Laser, but within each division they are one designs. It's a good system, as shown by the fact that two of the three biggest classes in the world follow it.

No it's not the same you can have two different size sails and fins in each division

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RichardG said..

Chris 249 said..

Longboard or malibu surfing is actually edgy and with its pure glide and style is amongst the coolest of sports. Joel Tudor bought back the cool in longboarding, the reason why many picked up a longboard: Mr. Joel Tudor. Amidst the crowd and all the chaos that often goes on in Malibu, Joel always stands out and manages to keep his composure and impeccable style. Windsurfing needs cool people with a lifestyle who can inspire riders of the future. e.g. who is the Alex Knost of windsurfing ?

Yes, Joel did a lot for mal surfing. I actually wrote a post on the old LBWS website arguing that longboard windsurfing needed someone like Joel. But like you say he's cool, he's got composure and style - that seems quite different from the "extreme" approach that some people reckon windsurfing should follow. I got into mals in the early '80s and it wasn't cool or edgy.

That vid of Alex is the sort of thing windsurfing needs, IMHO. Kook longboarders like me can look at that and think "hey, next week I could be in conditions like that, doing something like that - but nowhere near as well". In contrast, "edgy" windsurfing is portrayed as something much more extreme and which requires rare conditions, more complex and expensive gear, and includes a significant risk of getting hurt.

Kids have always been able to select 6.8 or 7.8 sails and 5.8 I think , they still only have one fin. The bigger fin you mention is for the 293+ class that allows an 8.5 sail. That is to allow gear to continue being sailed in adulthood, at the recent nationals in Brisbane there were two classes of windsurfer

The Techno 293OD (7.8mtr max and 46cm fin)
Techno 293+ (8.5 and the bigger fin, 50cm??)

The reason the 293+ class was sailed was due to the event incorporating the Oceanic Qualifier for the Youth Olympic Games which will be sailed on the 293+

This is where it gets confusing you can have two sailors with the same size rig and fin sailing in different divisions at the the same regatta in the same conditions

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windsufering said..
This is where it gets confusing you can have two sailors with the same size rig and fin sailing in different divisions at the the same regatta in the same conditions

There are 2 classes,Techno and Techno plus.
Techno plus has 7.8 and 8.5 m sail only and only the 50cm fin.
Techno for younger kids with any sail(non cambered) under 4.5 or OD 5.8, 6.8 or 7.8 and only the 46cm fin. Registered sails for the event should be consecutive 5.8 and 6.8 or 6.8 and 7.8m.
Techno is the official youth class,believe it is 5.8 max for under 13, 6.8 for under 15 and 7.8 for under 18.
Techno plus is the youth olympic class and adults, probably marketed to keep kids who become adults as Bic customers instead of going to RSX.
Techno and Techno plus are both One Design classes!
Two kids could both be using a 7.8m sail but be in different classes, The one using the 46 is in Techno and the one using a 50cm fin is in Techno plus.You cannot change fins during an event.

You can use the 46 fin in the techno plus class according to the rules

So in the same division one guy could be using the 46 fin and 7.8 sail and the other guy has the 50 fin
and the 8.5 sail and it's one design.
Ok i understand
NEXT STEP : TECHNO 293 PLUS Tested since 2013, the Techno Plus Class is now growing fast and is proposed to ISAF to become an international class. Four categories (age/gender divisions) are currently using the Techno 293 Plus : U19 girls and boys and Open men and women. The class can awards 4 world titles in these categories. Bigger Sail and bigger Finn can be used in this class: max 8.5 m2 for the rig and 50 cm for the fin .This combination ts perfectly with the requirement for heavier weights. Lighter weights can still use the 6.8 and 7.8 m2 rigs.

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windsufering said..
So in the same division one guy could be using the 46 fin and 7.8 sail and the other guy has the 50 fin
and the 8.5 sail and it's one design.
Ok i understand
NEXT STEP : TECHNO 293 PLUS Tested since 2013, the Techno Plus Class is now growing fast and is proposed to ISAF to become an international class. Four categories (age/gender divisions) are currently using the Techno 293 Plus : U19 girls and boys and Open men and women. The class can awards 4 world titles in these categories. Bigger Sail and bigger n can be used in this class: max 8.5 m2 for the rig and 50 cm for the fin .This combination ts perfectly with the requirement for heavier weights. Lighter weights can still use the 6.8 and 7.8 m2 rigs.

Doh you found us out, problems with the class. Those 10000 kids with smiles on their faces are not real. the video's are all fakes. Its most likely all Australian Sailing's fault because they are the devil.

And we all know the real evil of techno, left unchecked it might lead to RSX

I don't believe you can use a 6.8 or smaller in the Techno plus division but yes you can use the 46 fin.
So you have options and nominate your division,sail choice(2 sails) and fin at the registration before the event starts.You can choose equipment taking into account weather forecast and ability.
Some kids chose a 50 fin in QLD and run in Techno plus with their existing 7.8m.( only nominated 1 sail)
It's all spelt out in the notice of race.
Had you of purchased an 8.5m and 50 fin you would also of had that option .


Techno plus is youth and adult (men and women)
Techno has age divisions >13 >15 ect.(boys and girls) ,no adults
Both have seperate world championships,Europeans ect.
Because of the low number Oceania ran techno and techno plus together at the one event. You choose which you enter.

Do you want to tell that to the kids who were informed that they didn't qualify for the bic techno plus because
they didn't have the right equipment when clearly they did ?

Getting a little off topic I think. Great to see the passion, it bodes well for the future. Start another thread or get a room though. Class rules are a bit of a dry topic to those who don't compete in those classes.
Back on topic, another great turn out at Lucky Bay (Swan river) on Sunday with at least 10 under 10's out there.

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windsufering said..
Do you want to tell that to the kids who were informed that they didn't qualify for the bic techno plus because
they didn't have the right equipment when clearly they did ?

One thing is certain to contribute to a decline in windsurfing and that is constant negativity towards any aspect of the sport.

Its understood you hate Australian Sailing and RSX and the Olympic Sailing etc, but your just killing other peoples vibe. Move on, be happy.

I'm sorry it was a youth Olympic qualifying event

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windsufering said..
Do you want to tell that to the kids who were informed that they didn't qualify for the bic techno plus because
they didn't have the right equipment when clearly they did ?

I don't know what your issue is.
But by kids you just mean your son ,right .
Everyone I spoke to knew the rules. I guess they gained an advantage by reading the NOR !

From time to time I get bored of windsurfing.

Tonight after a good days sailing today I feel like I need another break again from the sport to get my enthusiasm back.

I can play other sports often without getting bored but with windsurfing sailing every day or every other day the boredom sets in quick!

Reckon it's to do with all the travel and organisation needed for our sport.

Packing and unpacking the car,rigging and de-rigging etc,etc.

So many other sports - it's just so much easier!

Most people who are really into windsurfing from my experience,are sort of achievers in life too.

Never come across a sport with so much preparation involved.

Its never going to be a really popular sport,folks nowadays are just too lazy for one!

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petermac33 said..
From time to time I get bored of windsurfing.

Tonight after a good days sailing today I feel like I need another break again from the sport to get my enthusiasm back.

I can play other sports often without getting bored but with windsurfing sailing every day or every other day the boredom sets in quick!

Reckon it's to do with all the travel and organisation needed for our sport.

Packing and unpacking the car,rigging and de-rigging etc,etc.

So many other sports - it's just so much easier!

Most people who are really into windsurfing from my experience,are sort of achievers in life too.

Never come across a sport with so much preparation involved.

Its never going to be a really popular sport,folks nowadays are just too lazy for one!

Okay I'll bite - if you get bored why don't you try and sail somewhere other than Melville?

Boredom is a concept usually manufactured in the human mind. The only thing boring about windsurfing is the human minds attitude towards it. Tell a 2 yo that the stone he's playing with is boring. I find the most boring things in life are some human minds.

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petermac33 said..
From time to time I get bored of windsurfing.

Tonight after a good days sailing today I feel like I need another break again from the sport to get my enthusiasm back.

I can play other sports often without getting bored but with windsurfing sailing every day or every other day the boredom sets in quick!

Reckon it's to do with all the travel and organisation needed for our sport.

Packing and unpacking the car,rigging and de-rigging etc,etc.

So many other sports - it's just so much easier!

Most people who are really into windsurfing from my experience,are sort of achievers in life too.

Never come across a sport with so much preparation involved.

Its never going to be a really popular sport,folks nowadays are just too lazy for one!

Go out at Margaret River and then tell us if you're bored...

Peter - go yacht racing, drag sails round, sit on the rail, pack everything up get hoem about 8 hours later - you will love it

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normster said..
Peter - go yacht racing, drag sails round, sit on the rail, pack everything up get hoem about 8 hours later - you will love it

I used to race International 14 foot skiffs, so rigging a windsurfer in 15 minutes is a breeze (haha get it?) compared to the all day exercise that is. :D

When I'm bored I go to boat ramps and watch people rig catamarans.

There's nothing like a health scare to help you enjoy every minute on the water

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Orange Whip said..
There's nothing like a health scare to help you enjoy every minute on the water

We are only dancing on this earth for a short while.
This stuff is going through my mind all the time .

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Imax1 said..

Orange Whip said..
There's nothing like a health scare to help you enjoy every minute on the water

We are only dancing on this earth for a short while.
This stuff is going through my mind all the time .

If you sing it through all the way to end it will stop, so I'm told.

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KA360 said..

windsufering said..
Do you want to tell that to the kids who were informed that they didn't qualify for the bic techno plus because
they didn't have the right equipment when clearly they did ?

I don't know what your issue is.
But by kids you just mean your son ,right .
Everyone I spoke to knew the rules. I guess they gained an advantage by reading the NOR !

People call it one design when clearly as I pointed out it's not !
classes cross over
a bic techno can race in the same division as a bic techno plus even thou one has a extra meter of sail and a bigger finn
A bic techno can win the bic techno plus title
who decides who goes in what class is difficult to work out
BTW the notice of race from the aust youth tiitles states the bic techno results counts to the youth Olympics
not easy being a race officer

The Bic Techno 293 class and the Bic Techno 293 Plus class had separate starts at the Nationals so that the Techno 293 class races did not interfere with the Techno Plus kids who were racing in the Oceanic Youth Olympic qualifier.
Competitors were able to enter the class of their choosing.
Each class has a certain size sail (and a change down sail for stronger wind if required).
The Techno 293 class rules specify the allowed sail sizes for various age groups.
There is only one size of board for both classes but the Techno Plus is the only one of the two classes that uses an 8.5 metre sail and 50 cm fin (although you can change down a sail size if needed). You can only use the fin you registered. Most competitors in the Techno Plus used a 50cm fin which is not allowed in the Techno Class. To be competitive in the Techno Plus class, I would think that a competitor would have to have the ability to use the 8.5m sail. No one was forced to go in a class they didn't want to enter as far as I know. The notice of race was amended well before the Nationals because the qualifier for the Youth Olympics had to be on the Techno Plus. Many competitors bought an 8.5 metre sail at that time and spent months training for the regatta. By the way, New Zealand and Australia qualified for the Youth Olympics not the individuals who gained the places in the Oceanics. It will be up to Sailing Australia to send who they see fit in accordance with their selection policy document. So are you saying that just because you can have two sails registered, it's not one design?