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Jupiter said..
Despite all these, I still believe a sport that requires no petrol, produces no noxious gases, and still shrink your balls when a 2-metre wall of water trying to turn you into minced meat, is the sport for me.

You were spot on up to that point. BUT:

I burn a hell of a lot of Petrol getting to my windsurfing spots, and the construction of our equipment produces a hell of a lot of noxious gasses and waste!

I always used to laugh at the surfers who waxed on about how 'environmentally friendly' their sport was, as they got out of their gas guzzlers having just driven hundreds of KM looking for the best wave that day. Not to mention the amount of un-recyclable broken plastic and foam boards they left lying around in bins after a big day!

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sailquik said..



I burn a hell of a lot of Petrol getting to my windsurfing spots, and the construction of our equipment produces a hell of a lot of noxious gasses and waste!

I always used to laugh at the surfers who waxed on about how 'environmentally friendly' their sport was, as they got out of their gas guzzlers having just driven hundreds of KM looking for the best wave that day. Not to mention the amount of un-recyclable broken plastic and foam boards they left lying around in bins after a big day!

That is a lame argument though. You can't windsurf on your mom's concrete carpark, can you? Sure, you need to get to the spot first. But once there, you don't pump out smelly fumes saturated with 2-stroke oil.

In case you are not already aware of, farmers also produced large amount of waste products while growing foods for you and me.

I think you are confusing getting to the destination with the actual sport itself.

I take it you not a fan of jet skiers .?

heaps of people want to windsurf ,I reckon ,but they don't take the plunge ,
as far as buying gear and getting into it .it really is a individual sport .
i was hooked after the 3 rd day ,I got planning on my 3 rd day on a big table and a 4.5 metre sail .
the rest is history .

windsurfing is a tough sport .Ive had friends walk away cause its too tuff .
whats the drop out rate ?..

i know with martial arts the drop out rate is 90%. And less are still doing it after 20 years .

Are we the 10% .left ...i think there is more than that ...it makes me happy to see windsurfing companies still pumping out new gear every year .
when that stops ...start worrying ...
I think windsurfers are very passionate about their sport and it will keep going for a long time .
Ever time I'm planning I wish more people could experience the feeling .

Just repeating here what I heard from a friend who is a design engineer for a very famous windsurfing / kitesurfing company for the last 20 years:

-Since mid 2000's manufacturers were barely braking even in the manufacturing and sales of windsurf gear;
-All of them jumped into designing / manufacturing Kitersurf gear simply to stay afloat and survive;
-Kitesurfing them was subsidizing R&D and Manuf of Windsurfing even since; It brakes even or stays in red ever year since;
-SUP also boosted a profitable extra revenue stream for companies who still had the expense of carrying Windsurfing in their ranges;
-R&D consists of a sail / board loft in Maui or another windy place (Sardinia, Canary Islands etc) with a few old guys trimming gear and a very young guns ripping with developed gear. As soon as it ''matured'' the Chinese manufacturers would replicate it;
-The sport is declining worldwide. There is so much second hand gear available and cheap from the ''mature'' stage post mid 2000's that the new equipment sales yearly are a paltry number compared to the good old days;
-The maturity reached in design, materials and manufacturing methods since mid 2000's means major breakthroughs and less likely; If you are a good sailor you can be in a 15 yrs old gear and blow less experienced people out of the water every day;

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Tardy said..
I take it you not a fan of jet skiers .?

Right on the money. I recall an incident when we windsurfers finally received a gift from heaven...a stiff 20-knots. Must be about 15 of us out there. Then out of nowhere, a few young and mindless dudes in their jetskis decided to "mingle" among us.

The fumes, and noise, not forgetting the fact that we are more than likely come out second best in a collision, had us rather pissed off. Despite repeated requests in the form of yelling over those noisy machines, they hang around. YES. I hated those bloody machines.

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novetti said..
Just repeating here what I heard from a friend who is a design engineer for a very famous windsurfing / kitesurfing company for the last 20 years:
...

I would have thought that multi-fin wave boards are a big change. Current freestyle boards are very different to boards from 10 years ago. And incremental change over many years is still a lot of change - just compare a new car to one from 10 years ago (as long as it's not a Toyota). BTW, Starboard/Severne are probably the biggest windsurfing brand now. I am not aware of any kite business subsidising them.

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Subsonic said..
Dunno bout worldwide, but to me in Perth it doesn't seem so.

hmmm.. as of yesterday on Facebook a fellow windsurfer announced to the whole windsurfing community here there was one who just bought a beginner kit .. that`s a Huge leap so far!

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Jupiter said..

Tardy said..
I take it you not a fan of jet skiers .?

Right on the money. I recall an incident when we windsurfers finally received a gift from heaven...a stiff 20-knots. Must be about 15 of us out there. Then out of nowhere, a few young and mindless dudes in their jetskis decided to "mingle" among us.

The fumes, and noise, not forgetting the fact that we are more than likely come out second best in a collision, had us rather pissed off. Despite repeated requests in the form of yelling over those noisy machines, they hang around. YES. I hated those bloody machines.

I've had a similar run in he was on my tail and then decided to over take ,I was out of room ,and had to gybe .
he accused me of turning in front of him
I told the **** where to go .and told him he shouldn't even be in here .

Looking through my collection of ancient brochures reminds me that there certainly was a LOT of glamour in those old windsurfing brochures. They made to look super cool and glamorous, not so much 'extreme sport'.

And there were pictures of young women on almost every page windsurfing every bit as good as the guys.

What young man or women would not have wanted to be part of this?
1988 Tiga Brochure:





1986 F2 Brochure.



1986 Tiga brochure (in french!)
Tom looking very glamorous.

Nathalie:





Jenna:








Lifestyle:

One sign that windsurfing still is "in" in Germany: Mercedes just gave Klaas Voget and Leon Jamaera sponsored cars (windsurfers.de/news/klaas-voget-und-leon-jamaer-fahren-mercedes_a-8246.html). Volkswagen is in the game, too, sponsoring Vincent Langer and a windsurf racing series (the Multivan Windsurf Cup).

didn't Porsche sponsor Robbie Naish ??

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joe windsurf said..
didn't Porsche sponsor Robbie Naish ??

Oh yeah, and he has a few of his own. The Slantnose is my fav.

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JonesySail said..

Kook's right , all successful sports and business promote their 'best high action product' and given that windsurfing is competing with kiting for wind/water sport market it does need to sell the sizzle even if that product is never achieved by the bulk of the market. It's the tropical warm windy ideal pictures that sold me the sport...not ploddinng around on an icy cold pond in 5knts!

The affordable basic simple innocent fun of the 80's one board, the family thing, is still there in fact it's even better, as the one board doubles as a SUP and the rigs are light as feather, especially i-rigs, and the SUPS are light too...so we have a way better and more economical point of entry than ever before. The starter family gear now is awesome and light!
For me the best value way to promote and get the sport decent exposure is 'high action events in great locations'
The dream promotion for the sport would be a national Pro/Am series of events/competition in high exposure windy locations.

Sorry Jonesy, but it's completely wrong to say that all successful sports and businesses promote high action. Look at road cycling, a huge growth sport - it promotes something that Joe Average can do pretty much from day 1. If they get a bit keen they can do just what the Tour de France pros do - they can ride the same bike (in face the weekend warriors can use lighter bikes) and they can ride the same famous mountains. The difference with windsurfing is that it's incomparably easier for the weekend cyclist to do what the pros do on Alpe d' Huez than it is for the weekend windsurfer to do what the pros do at Jaws.

We can also look at SUPs, where most of the promotion is about people getting out on their local lake or bay, not about Laird. Look at the huge number of Hobie-style kayaks around - they are promoting normal people getting out and having fun on normal waterways on normal days, not extreme stuff. This has been pointed out by people ranging from Svein Rasmussen, to professors studying sports economics and the guys running surveys of popular activities and TV sports ratings.

There is no link between a sport getting lots of publicity and being extreme and that sport being popular. Low-key sports like bushwalking and kayaking are far more popular than extreme ones.

The sport DID the whole thing with "high action events" and national pro-am circuit in high exposure windy locations from 1983. The sport declined from then on. We have already done what you say we should do, and it most definitely did not work the first time around. Why would it work again?

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joe windsurf said..
didn't Porsche sponsor Robbie Naish ??

At least early on he just bought his own. He turned down offers from BMW and Audi to do it.

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Chris 249 said..

JonesySail said..

Kook's right , all successful sports and business promote their 'best high action product' and given that windsurfing is competing with kiting for wind/water sport market it does need to sell the sizzle even if that product is never achieved by the bulk of the market. It's the tropical warm windy ideal pictures that sold me the sport...not ploddinng around on an icy cold pond in 5knts!

The affordable basic simple innocent fun of the 80's one board, the family thing, is still there in fact it's even better, as the one board doubles as a SUP and the rigs are light as feather, especially i-rigs, and the SUPS are light too...so we have a way better and more economical point of entry than ever before. The starter family gear now is awesome and light!
For me the best value way to promote and get the sport decent exposure is 'high action events in great locations'
The dream promotion for the sport would be a national Pro/Am series of events/competition in high exposure windy locations.

Sorry Jonesy, but it's completely wrong to say that all successful sports and businesses promote high action. Look at road cycling, a huge growth sport - it promotes something that Joe Average can do pretty much from day 1. If they get a bit keen they can do just what the Tour de France pros do - they can ride the same bike (in face the weekend warriors can use lighter bikes) and they can ride the same famous mountains. The difference with windsurfing is that it's incomparably easier for the weekend cyclist to do what the pros do on Alpe d' Huez than it is for the weekend windsurfer to do what the pros do at Jaws.

We can also look at SUPs, where most of the promotion is about people getting out on their local lake or bay, not about Laird. Look at the huge number of Hobie-style kayaks around - they are promoting normal people getting out and having fun on normal waterways on normal days, not extreme stuff. This has been pointed out by people ranging from Svein Rasmussen, to professors studying sports economics and the guys running surveys of popular activities and TV sports ratings.

There is no link between a sport getting lots of publicity and being extreme and that sport being popular. Low-key sports like bushwalking and kayaking are far more popular than extreme ones.

The sport DID the whole thing with "high action events" and national pro-am circuit in high exposure windy locations from 1983. The sport declined from then on. We have already done what you say we should do, and it most definitely did not work the first time around. Why would it work again?

All sports have their issues. SUPs are long and difficult to store. Hobie kayaks with foot pedals have the problem of being large, very expensive and needing a vehicle to transport them. The waterways are so crowded now you can forget trying to catch serious fish in the daytime. Jetskis are expensive and may cost you a few friends with all that noise pollution. No one hears of water skiers very much because they are only allowed in restricted areas. I am not going to mention kites because this is a windsurfing forum. Tennis is supposed to be popular but I rarely see anyone on a court. Skateboarders do pretty well but they have competition from scooters and small bikes. Cycling is one sport that caters really well for a wide spectrum of participants. Their numbers are growing all the time even though they have to contend with hills and head winds. They do get a lot of community support, most notably with all the cycle ways being built.

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Chris 249 said..

Sorry Jonesy, but it's completely wrong to say that all successful sports and businesses promote high action. Look at road cycling, a huge growth sport - it promotes something that Joe Average can do pretty much from day 1. If they get a bit keen they can do just what the Tour de France pros do - they can ride the same bike (in face the weekend warriors can use lighter bikes) and they can ride the same famous mountains. The difference with windsurfing is that it's incomparably easier for the weekend cyclist to do what the pros do on Alpe d' Huez than it is for the weekend windsurfer to do what the pros do at Jaws.

We can also look at SUPs, where most of the promotion is about people getting out on their local lake or bay, not about Laird. Look at the huge number of Hobie-style kayaks around - they are promoting normal people getting out and having fun on normal waterways on normal days, not extreme stuff. This has been pointed out by people ranging from Svein Rasmussen, to professors studying sports economics and the guys running surveys of popular activities and TV sports ratings.

There is no link between a sport getting lots of publicity and being extreme and that sport being popular. Low-key sports like bushwalking and kayaking are far more popular than extreme ones.

The sport DID the whole thing with "high action events" and national pro-am circuit in high exposure windy locations from 1983. The sport declined from then on. We have already done what you say we should do, and it most definitely did not work the first time around. Why would it work again?

Yep. Which is exactly why promoting the pastime of low key, recreational windsurfing worked in the 80's. Almost anyone could do it in almost any everyday low wind conditions. 5 kts of wind and a body of water: No problem. It was all about just cruising around with friends and having fun. When I was selling boards in the mid '80's, (all were longboards then), I had just ordinary families buying them for fun on holidays and weekends. I had dads and mums buying them for their teenagers, and them having a go at it themselves because it looked cool and was within their reach. For a couple of years I was selling 20-30 boards a summer in a small regional Victorian inland town, with no advertising. People just found me on the beach at the lake or by word of mouth.

Not long after the shortboard 'revolution' came along, in the late 80's, the decline began, sharply. Many of the original participants bought the new 'short boards' and quickly found that the pastime had changed. They could no longer just do it almost anytime they had some time off. They had to wait around for stronger winds. It became a more self centred pastime that was not family inclusive. It became more expensive, and even if they were willing to shell out the $, their expensive equipment, which they may have got to use only a few times a summer, soon became obsolete, and resembled a money pit.

The current boom in SUP's reminds me a lot of those boom days, but I predict it is destined to remain a easy entry, family friendly pastime.

I wonder ............ if all the SUP manufacturers installed a mast base connection (either a slot or just a threaded insert) as standard equipment on all of their family/entry/recreational type SUP's (ie. as a consumer you couldn't buy a recreational type SUP without a mast base connection) , would this have a net positive effect on bringing newcomers into windsurfing

My rationale is that a family buys a SUP as a toy ............... they paddle the thing around for a bit ............ they hit a breezy day here and there, or maybe they see someone else sailing, and start to think "maybe I should buy myself a basic windsurf rig and give it a go" simply because they already have a SUP that they can put a sail on

Sup sail is the key to that easy low key low wind fun, not sure how many sup sellers promote ' would you like a sail with that'! ?
in the case of one of the biggest brands they DONT all put a mast base point in, Naish...shame shame shame.
Fanatic do and it's why I own a Allwave, I can paddle it surf it and let kids have a simple sail with the i rig, the most versatile water toy I own.

Sup has its extreme angles also, heaps of dedicated race and down wind boards, and small volume wave boards sell heaps, they are not easy user friendly, but they are still selling heaps.

SUP industry promotes awesome waves, full on down winders lots of 'glamour shots' just as much as just splashing about at the local.

SQ's great sales figures, You should set up again!
Id guess those sort of numbers are now being achieved in same location with SUP.

I think one of the big factors limiting growth is 'time and patience' trying to find people that have enough of both to be able to move through the stages of learning. It's a big commitment the learning process.

Its why the RQ model in Brisbane is so powerful and successful, just keep coming every Saturday and we will turn you into a windsurfer, so good.:)

examples of my non extreme approach taken early this year.
choc coconut water optional.

I think "sailquik" has the right idea. As I said in one of my earlier posts, it is about being part of the crowd. Friends of similar interest, ie. windsurfing, come around down the beach for a bit of sun, some sand in your jocks, and may be get to know a girl or two of similar interest.

It doesn't have to be a 20 knots, full planing and 2-metre waves. Just popping around, falling off, having a laugh, cracked a couple of cans, preferably after, were good enough for most.

So it is very much about lifestyle, connection with others, being seen with others, being cool, and perhaps a bit of luck with the ladies.

With the arrival of all sorts of electronic gadgets and the kinds of stuff one can do with them, people are even too f-king lazy to walk/drive to the pizza shop to pick up a pizza. Worse still, they can now sit on their fat asses and "track" the progress of the pizza delivery on their idiotic apps. "Yeah...cool...It will be here any minute now...cool...dude..."

inflatable WindSUP that fits in the trunk
mast and sails that fit in the trunk
NOT a fan of the I-RIG and find it too $$$

locally I am the light wind guy with my longboard
when I see a newbie struggling, I pop their sail on my board and let them have a go @ it
their smile upon return is always wonderful

been thinking of bringing my Dufour WING to the windsurf beach - just to freak 'em out

Yes, light wind sailing on inflatable SUPs can be a lot of fun:
It would be great if SUPs came standard with a mast insert. Why don't they? Maybe because many companies that make SUPs have nothing to do with windsurfing. But even companies that do, like BIC and Fanatic, have lots of SUPs without plugs. So maybe it's just the added cost of putting a mast insert in; it seems to add about $100 in retail price. According to a local store owner, buyers looking for a SUP will shy away from SUPs with mast inserts ("We DO NOT want to windsurf"). He usually explains that the mast inserts are "gear attachment points" instead. Although maybe this is a USA-typical thing. It still amazes me how few windsurfers there are in the US, and how often beach goes have no clue what windsurfing is, often confusing it with kiting.

''It would be great if SUPs came standard with a mast insert. Why don't they?''

We have been building our range of Cruz SUP as a dual role board for both SUPing /Windsurfing for the last couple of seasons. The mast track is built into these boards with the same layup construction/ strength as our wave boards.
Once the familys, that haven't windsurfed before realizes that the board can fitted a sail , most order a sail around 4.5m or smaller. I have taught both my teenage daugthers to windsurf on these boards.

OES - I like it!!!!!

How much for the 9'6?

That's cool with the mast track

i had a go on a fanatic inflatable ,the mast insert ..was so far up the nose .
i couldn't tack it ...only gybe ....

big thumbs up.

Too cool OES. I own a BIC windSUP myself, and love it, it's windsurfing for smiles

Regarding the economics of putting a mast track or a threaded insert into a SUP. If the manufacturer (BIC for instance) had two identical products, one with a mast track and one without. The cost of simply installing a mast track on all boards would be partially (if not completely) offset by eliminating the need for two production runs and the logistics and stock holding associated with having to stock both products. In this instance, I would imagine that it might actually make financial sense to only manufacture entry level SUP's with a mast track and not give the option of with or without.

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sailquik said..

Yep. Which is exactly why promoting the pastime of low key, recreational windsurfing worked in the 80's. Almost anyone could do it in almost any everyday low wind conditions. 5 kts of wind and a body of water: No problem. It was all about just cruising around with friends and having fun. When I was selling boards in the mid '80's, (all were longboards then), I had just ordinary families buying them for fun on holidays and weekends. I had dads and mums buying them for their teenagers, and them having a go at it themselves because it looked cool and was within their reach. For a couple of years I was selling 20-30 boards a summer in a small regional Victorian inland town, with no advertising. People just found me on the beach at the lake or by word of mouth.

Not long after the shortboard 'revolution' came along, in the late 80's, the decline began, sharply. Many of the original participants bought the new 'short boards' and quickly found that the pastime had changed. They could no longer just do it almost anytime they had some time off. They had to wait around for stronger winds. It became a more self centred pastime that was not family inclusive. It became more expensive, and even if they were willing to shell out the $, their expensive equipment, which they may have got to use only a few times a summer, soon became obsolete, and resembled a money pit.

The current boom in SUP's reminds me a lot of those boom days, but I predict it is destined to remain a easy entry, family friendly pastime.

This is so true. The sport in Australia, currently lacks the support of a large manufacturer. It was big when Sailboards Australia supported the Windsurfer Class, but not just short boards came along, also there was significant fragmentation in the longer boards, BIC / MISTRAL / HIFLY / WINDRUSH / WAYLER etc, amongst this there was a lot of crap, that didn't feel balanced to sail, and would ultimately put people off the sport as well.

I think even today there are way more opportunities to cruise around in lighter winds, than hang around waiting for enough wind for a blast on a short board. I don't get the SUPs at all, just put an effing sail on the thing and be done with it :)

There is definitely more interest than there used to be.

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Paddles B'mere said..
Too cool OES. I own a BIC windSUP myself, and love it, it's windsurfing for smiles

Regarding the economics of putting a mast track or a threaded insert into a SUP. If the manufacturer (BIC for instance) had two identical products, one with a mast track and one without. The cost of simply installing a mast track on all boards would be partially (if not completely) offset by eliminating the need for two production runs and the logistics and stock holding associated with having to stock both products. In this instance, I would imagine that it might actually make financial sense to only manufacture entry level SUP's with a mast track and not give the option of with or without.

It's really nice to see a mast track in the SUP board as opposed to a mast insert. Too many SUP manufactures are still using inserts, those things can fail pretty easily, seen it many times, Starboard being one of the guilty ones (haven't seen their latest boards though) and location is critical. It's a great idea that can easily pay for itself, helping the companies as well as both sports, but please use mast tracks only!
I've got a Starboard WP 8-10 with a couple of mast inserts, I've tried them, it's fun, but I no longer use them, it's the same kind of inserts that I've seen fail.

Inflatables are great for learners in my opinion.

Had my 6 year old and a couple of his similar aged mates up and going at Elanda over Easter.
Starboard Astro Whopper Inflatable, 1.0 Ezzy rig that I bought off Seabreeze for a bargain price.

They had a ball, didn't hurt themselves or the board. When they had enough of sailing I took the rig back to shore and they played for hours on the board, using it as a battle platform by the look of it. Came back a bit muddy, but after a quick wash it looks as good as new. Can't imagine what my other epoxy SUP would have looked like if I had let them loose on it, or them for that matter as they were bouncing off it and one another.

He and I can sail and paddle on it together and I am north of 100kg. Even my wife who hasn't sailed probably since before he was born had a nice session on it at Christmas time. Stable and comfortable. The Astro Whopper and has the centre fixed fin position, so it sails really quite good and you can go up wind quite well.

Another friend has a similar setup from Fanatic. And the same thing, his slightly older daughter and his wife are often out sailing on theirs.

BIC Techno report from Sailing Australia's Windsurfing Officier, Max Wojcik.

The past weekend saw fantastic racing for all ages at the 2017 Queensland Raceboard and Bic Techno Championship at Lake Cootharaba. The 11-15 knots of wind over the 29th and 30th of April saw fun, and at times challenging racing conditions for all competitors and provided exhilarating and competitive racing for all. For the Royal Queensland Yacht Squadron's Green Fleet sailors, coached by Max Wojcik, this regatta provided a perfect introduction to racing. For most of these youth sailors, many of which learnt to windsurf through the Learn to Windsurf course, and Team Windsurfing run at RQ, this was their very first time racing. After two days of very close racing the results were finally in, with Jake Van Staveren winning the under 15 Techno division, and Hailey Lea coming first in both the overall Techno and 7.8 Raceboard division after performing extremely well in all seven races. Max Irvin also received the award for the youngest competitor at the Regatta after showing great sportsmanship in all his races.
The experience gained by all the youth sailors from this regatta will be extremely beneficial in preparing them for the upcoming Musto QLD Youth Week in July and Techno Nationals. A special thank you must go out to Lake Cootharaba Sailing Club, Tony Matta, the race officials, and everyone behind the scenes for organising such a fantastic and enjoyable regatta and to Max Wojcik for coaching and encouraging these next generation windsurfers.

Full results in Qld Raceboard states thread ....Great to see so many kids racing...Congrat's


First time I have seen under 20's out number adults at an event since I started to race 6 years ago

windsurfing is still alive because the windsurfing school can do many courses with just one instructor (so the business in windsurfing is bigger than in the kitesurf)