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How can I reduce getting catapulted?

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Created by Bleary > 9 months ago, 5 Mar 2013
Bleary
QLD, 20 posts
5 Mar 2013 3:43PM
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I know it is inevitable,but I seem to have a bit of a problem.
I am a returning windsurfer of little experience,but am keen to get back into it.
Currently I have a Bic Techno 150l and a Bic Lambada longboard,along with a 6.2 and 7.0 sails.
I am using the harness And just getting into the straps.The problem is,I cannot seem to depower easily when I get a gust,and I end up flying like Biggles.I am starting to worry about smashing up my sail and board,plus myself,and finding it very annoying.
Today was probably the strongest I have been out in,maybe 20/25 knots and the problem was magnified.Maybe it was too windy for me,but I wonder if my setup needs tweaking.
I read somewhere that the boom should be at chin height and the harness lines should be about 28 inches?
When I set up like this it feels too close to the sail with little "give" or flexibility,is this correct?
Any tips on harness line length and position gratefully received.
Maybe I should just go out in lighter winds to begin,but I would like to nip any bad habits in the bud,plus I do not think my sail and board can handle too many more crashes like I had today.
Cheers,
Bleary.

hardie
WA, 4129 posts
5 Mar 2013 1:48PM
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You've answered sum of your questions! The catapult is an awful sensation, after 30yrs of sailing still happens to me, happened to me 3 days ago, had the boom set high, gust came along.... catapult. Lowering the boom helps, longer harness lines, ifya gonna fall better falling backwards than over and onto your gear is better. Instronger winds lower boom, and your weight as outboard as possible.

Bleary
QLD, 20 posts
5 Mar 2013 3:58PM
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Thanks Hardie,I will try that next time I think.I don't mind falling off,but being flung into the mast and sail will end in tears I think.

stringer
WA, 703 posts
5 Mar 2013 2:19PM
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downhaul your sail more until just before the mast breaks under full load

powersloshin
NSW, 1844 posts
5 Mar 2013 5:25PM
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If you're quick enough you can pull on the front hand and push with the back hand at the same time to depower the sail. Second, if it's strong get in both straps as quickly as possible, once you are in the straps you can controll a lot of wind just by hanging low. Another cause of catapult is moving the mast over the eye of the wind, you cannot go over the handlebars if you keep the mast racked back.
And the harness lines look short when you are not planing, if it's strong you should hook in just between entering the first and second strap...

Windxtasy
WA, 4017 posts
5 Mar 2013 2:35PM
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20/25 knots on a high volume board is going to be difficult to handle, especially if you are just getting into the straps. Going out in 15-20 will help a lot, but I know wind doesn't usually come to order.

How old are your sails and do you have sufficient downhaul on them? Modern sails when set right depower themselves in gusts to a certain extent.

The harness lines should be long enough that your arms are straight when you are hooked in and your hands are shoulder width apart.

Boom around chin height when rigged with mast foot in place.

Harness line position - stand the rigged sail up on the beach. Hold the boom between the harness lines, with one hand. If the back of the sail twists away from you move the lines back a little, and vice versa. When you can support the pull of the sail without it twisting away from you the harness lines are in the right position. To test, hold the loop of the harness line and see if the sail balances.

Have the confidence to lean back. Plenty of weight in the harness is the key to reducing catapults. If you stand upright you lose the weight advantage and you lose mast foot pressure causing the board to bounce around and get out of control.

Bleary
QLD, 20 posts
5 Mar 2013 4:44PM
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Thanks for the advice guys,they make a lot of sense.Sounds like I need to get back quicker,rather than mucking around and getting caught out with the rig too vertical.
what distance from the mast should I have my lines setup?currently I have them @ 40 cm back along the boom.
So lots of down haul flattens the sail also,I was putting a fair bit on,but was worried about breaking something,lots of out haul when windy also?
Cheers for the help.

Windxtasy
WA, 4017 posts
5 Mar 2013 2:51PM
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Bleary said...

what distance from the mast should I have my lines setup?currently I have them @ 40 cm back along the boom.
So lots of down haul flattens the sail also,I was putting a fair bit on,but was worried about breaking something,lots of out haul when windy also?
Cheers for the help.


Harness line position varies with the sail, and how full you have it.
Start with the back harness line about 1/3 of the boom length away from the mast, and lines about 20 - 25 cm apart. As your skill improves you can place them closer together.
Then use my standing the sail up on the beach method above, to tweak the harness line position.
I still do this most times I sail. I find everything much better balanced when I do.

Increase downhaul and out haul when very windy, but beware, you can overdo it, then the sail gets twitchy and really hard to handle. Ask an experienced windsurfer on the beach for advice.

Bleary
QLD, 20 posts
5 Mar 2013 5:01PM
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Thanks Windxstasy,very good tips.
My sails are a 7m North Tonic and a 6.2 Neil Pryde Diablo,they are in okay condition so far,trying not to spear through them!
I do also have a smaller board,it is a 106lt AHD Inspiro,but I think that is a step too far at the moment.I will try to balance the sail/harness lines as you say,something felt "out" today,so maybe that was it.
15/20 knots would be perfect,but I need to deal with what I have I guess.
Ta for the advice,will try tomorrow!

evlPanda
NSW, 9207 posts
5 Mar 2013 6:03PM
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Bleary said...
The problem is,I cannot seem to depower easily when I get a gust,and I end up flying like Biggles.


Don't depower. Especially that stand up, let the back hand out and the mast straighten up type depower. That's a setup for a forward loop. "Sheet in and... whatever you do, don't sheet out.... something something" what's the saying???

Firstly and mostly it sounds like you are overpowered because of the gear. A 6.2 in 20-25 can be a handful, especially if it isn't rigged correctly, with lots of downhaul in this case. That's the major issue here I think. There's just too much force so you can't get going, so the board's dragging, the force and the drag mean over you go. You need to increase that apparent wind angle for comfortable sailing! Everything should feel light!

The thing with windsurfing comfortably is to have the power on tap. You want the sail raked back into the wind shedding a bit or a lot of excess power. The sails are designed to "breath" like this and you'll recognise it when you are "comfortably powered up". In this situation you could stand a little more upright and push the back hand out/forward for a little more power (yes, out) if required in a lull, but you're more likely raked back trying to be slippery. Your weight is comfortably in the harness and you are making finger tip adjustments. There's a huge safety zone between your mast angle and the eye of the wind.

I find the easiest thing to do when suddenly overpowered, from sailing boats actually but it transfers to windsurfing too, is to simply head into the wind. Fast. Try that.

...but once in a while, yeah, you're gonna catapult.



sboardcrazy
NSW, 8292 posts
5 Mar 2013 6:12PM
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Get down low to the water and hang your weight off the boom with long harness lines..that will stop you from being pulled over so easily.Push out with your seat away from the lines pull. If the lines are long enough you shouldn't pull the rig over the top of you too much.
Keep an eye upwind for gusts so you aren't caught off guard.Then you can be ready to pull in with the front hand and depower the sail a bit for the strong stuff and back to normal after its gone ( if it's very gusty). If its gusty and youre not in the straps all the time you can see a gust coming and put the rear foot in the strap ( just keep your weight on the front one until it hits for board trim). As a lightweight I do that a lot to avoid the risk of catapults as I'm then anchored for when it hits.

da vecta
QLD, 2515 posts
5 Mar 2013 5:24PM
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Try keeping your front leg straighter.

Mobydisc
NSW, 9029 posts
5 Mar 2013 6:28PM
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Agree with Windxtasy's advice on board volume. I've had a few nasty catapults when sailing a bigger board in stronger winds. One catapult was captured on my GoPro. After this crash I sailed the rest of the day on a board 30 litres smaller and had no problems.

Bleary
QLD, 20 posts
5 Mar 2013 5:55PM
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I have just lengthened my harness lines and will try to keep front leg straight!
Thanks all for the advice.
Can you get a 5.5 or so that will fit a 430 mast? Most seem to go onto 400 masts it seems.

swoosh
QLD, 1929 posts
5 Mar 2013 7:58PM
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hardie said...
Lowering the boom helps


I always thought higher boom was better, more righting moment?

Windxtasy
WA, 4017 posts
5 Mar 2013 6:31PM
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Bleary said...
I have just lengthened my harness lines and will try to keep front leg straight!
Thanks all for the advice.
Can you get a 5.5 or so that will fit a 430 mast? Most seem to go onto 400 masts it seems.


I have a 5.7 (NP) and a 5.8 (KA) which rig on a 430. I'm sure you'll find a 5.5 which will if you look around a bit. Ring a windsurfing shop. They usually have a big range of sails and are bound to have something to suit.

waynos
TAS, 171 posts
5 Mar 2013 9:53PM
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5.5 severne gator will rig on a 430

kpb
QLD, 239 posts
5 Mar 2013 9:17PM
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The good ol catapult.....gone through 2 sails so far

jn1
SA, 2683 posts
5 Mar 2013 10:46PM
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Hi Bleary. If you can find a local sailor your height and weight, he/she would be a good person to speak to. Just a few points from when I was an intermediate (which may/may not work for you):

When over powered (or as default when an intermediate sailor), I use the front hand under hand grip. This grip (it feels weird to start with) depowers the sail by putting your weight through that arm which you naturely do when out of control. As you become more efficient sailor and use smaller gear, the normal front grip method might be better (ie: on small wave gear when under powered, I use normal grip). Have a play.

Regarding boom height, chin height is about where I have it on average, but don't settle with this advice. Have a play to see what is most comfortable. During a session, I normally change my boom height and outhaul a few times. Some sailors have a set position and don't touch it. Some guys have it real low, others real high. It depends on what works for you. This is a dicussion in itself.

Since you are starting out, you're very inefficient sailor, so you'll be on bigger gear to plane around with the advanced guys your weight/height, but as the years go by, you'll be able to do more with less.

Windxtasy: I disagree about your harness line position tip. Bigger sails (ie: 6m) use apparent wind. If a sail used purely real wind, then what you suggested would make sense.

CJW
NSW, 1731 posts
5 Mar 2013 11:19PM
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swoosh said...
hardie said...
Lowering the boom helps


I always thought higher boom was better, more righting moment?


I concur swoosh, higher boom = more control, from both a technical and analytic perspective imo

Mark _australia
WA, 23526 posts
5 Mar 2013 8:57PM
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waynos said...
Just about every 5.5 severne gator will rig on a 430


yup

Macroscien
QLD, 6808 posts
5 Mar 2013 11:01PM
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Bleary said...

I do also have a smaller board,it is a 106lt AHD Inspiro,

This is possibly the point, try to use smaller board.,
1.First is teach you proper balance in instant,
2.then will start much easier after each water start
3 Then after few runs on smaller board you will find everything so much easier on bigger board, but you don't want really back unless 120 -130

I can not see any reason for using big boards unless for ultra light winds

JanPaul999
43 posts
5 Mar 2013 9:26PM
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Best thing to prevent catapult is getting in both straps, especially the back one, so if your not always in them yet, push yourself to learn that now. On the bic they're pretty far outboard I think so it can be a bit tricky in the beginning, but once you're in catapults will be almost none-existent, at least that's how it was for me

P.S. If you don't want to break your sail always hold on to the boom, if you don't want to break the technos sensitive nose when u still have the tendency to catapult a lot get a jezz knob.

sausage
QLD, 4873 posts
5 Mar 2013 11:38PM
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CJW said...
swoosh said...
hardie said...
Lowering the boom helps


I always thought higher boom was better, more righting moment?


I concur swoosh, higher boom = more control, from both a technical and analytic perspective imo

Not true guys.
A boom set higher is best in lighter winds as body position is more upright transferring your weight more equally over the entire board which enables flatter board trim affording earlier planing (also pumping onto the plane is much easier with a higher boom). As the wind picks up you need to get your body position lower to increase the leverage. Much greater chance of over balancing and therefore catapulting with a higher boom.
Another way of looking at this is using shorter harness lines in lighter conditions and longer in stronger conditions. I sail adjustable lines on my big gear (8.6 & 7.8 racing blades) and have them set short 28" with boom pretty high. As wind picks up I lengthen to around 32" to 34" and lower the boom slightly. My smaller gear I sail either 30" or 32" lines but my boom is a lot lower.
My 2 cents anyway

Bleary
QLD, 20 posts
6 Mar 2013 12:47AM
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Thanks for all of the great feedback guys,I very much appreciate it.
I will try again tomorrow with the great tips I have read here.
Thanks again,
Bleary.

GusTee
NSW, 265 posts
6 Mar 2013 8:59AM
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Bleary,
Great advice above. In addition, always look upwind and learn to read the water. You will always get visual hints before the gust hits. This visual warning is always a few seconds ahead of the actual gust, just enough time to depower and brace yourself.
Same technique is also useful in marginal winds when you want to get planing. When you see you're going to get a gust, you can turn down wind and ready to apply full power with the gust to get the board on the plane.
Cheers,
YG.

swoosh
QLD, 1929 posts
6 Mar 2013 8:19AM
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sausage said...
Not true guys.
A boom set higher is best in lighter winds as body position is more upright transferring your weight more equally over the entire board which enables flatter board trim affording earlier planing (also pumping onto the plane is much easier with a higher boom). As the wind picks up you need to get your body position lower to increase the leverage. Much greater chance of over balancing and therefore catapulting with a higher boom.
Another way of looking at this is using shorter harness lines in lighter conditions and longer in stronger conditions. I sail adjustable lines on my big gear (8.6 & 7.8 racing blades) and have them set short 28" with boom pretty high. As wind picks up I lengthen to around 32" to 34" and lower the boom slightly. My smaller gear I sail either 30" or 32" lines but my boom is a lot lower.
My 2 cents anyway


Fair enough, sounds like you slalom dudes do a heap more tuning than I do. I'm usually a set and forget, and that means chin high boom + 32" lines. How much do you move your boom up and down?

sausage
QLD, 4873 posts
6 Mar 2013 10:47AM
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swoosh said...
sausage said...
Not true guys.
A boom set higher is best in lighter winds as body position is more upright transferring your weight more equally over the entire board which enables flatter board trim affording earlier planing (also pumping onto the plane is much easier with a higher boom). As the wind picks up you need to get your body position lower to increase the leverage. Much greater chance of over balancing and therefore catapulting with a higher boom.
Another way of looking at this is using shorter harness lines in lighter conditions and longer in stronger conditions. I sail adjustable lines on my big gear (8.6 & 7.8 racing blades) and have them set short 28" with boom pretty high. As wind picks up I lengthen to around 32" to 34" and lower the boom slightly. My smaller gear I sail either 30" or 32" lines but my boom is a lot lower.
My 2 cents anyway


Fair enough, sounds like you slalom dudes do a heap more tuning than I do. I'm usually a set and forget, and that means chin high boom + 32" lines. How much do you move your boom up and down?


Swoosh,
Probably maximum range of around 10cm from highest setting to lowest although that is across entire range i.e. My lowest posi with the big sails is probably the highest posi with my smaller ones. 5cm either way from the average height - that might not sound much but it has a significant effect on handling. Board width also affects optimum boom position as you'll notice with a formula board the boom is set really high as you sail further outboard than a narrower board.

A positive of using the same model and brand of sail is their consistent height markings on the luff so there's no second guessing.

Windxtasy
WA, 4017 posts
6 Mar 2013 11:14AM
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jn1 said...

Windxtasy: I disagree about your harness line position tip. Bigger sails (ie: 6m) use apparent wind. If a sail used purely real wind, then what you suggested would make sense.



It works for me. I do adjust the lines after a few runs to balance the pressure in the front and back hands though. Usually only a few cm one way or the other is required. The on beach balancing method gives a good starting point that is not too far off.

sboardcrazy
NSW, 8292 posts
6 Mar 2013 2:26PM
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Guy Cribb cribb sheet is great for setting up lines especially if where you rig is out of the wind.

jn1
SA, 2683 posts
6 Mar 2013 7:03PM
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Windxtasy said...
It works for me.


Yep Windxtasy, technique is an individual thing and that is important to remember when reading tips on a forum (this was a pitfall I fell into when I was a beginner on here asking for tips - "Sharkbiscuit"). My techniques might not work for Bleary, but yours might. He has to try a bunch and see what works for him and what doesn't.



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"How can I reduce getting catapulted?" started by Bleary