I've only been sailing since last summer, can't water start yet, still using the uphaul.

Using a large sail, when the wind picks up, with the rig in the water with the clew into the wind, it can be a struggle to pull the sail out of the water.

If I've fallen in the water, I swim the mast into the wind. Then uphaul.
If I'm standing, I can rotate the board with the rig in the water acting like an anchor. I setup the mast on the rail perpendicular to the board. I stand on the opposite rail, which helps lift the mast out of the water, but with clew into the wind the rig can sometimes flip out of control.

Any tips for making life easier?

Also, if the mast has been in the water for a while it feels heavier perhaps because the mast is now filled with water? Is the mast supposed to be water tight with the o-ring on the extension and plug at the top?

I'm no expert but its dicey trying to uphaul with the mast tip into the wind unless the wind is very light.The wind gets the rig & creates havoc. Try & get the mast lying so the tip is downwind and then use your body weight to lift.Lean/fall back until it starts to come out.Several knots tied every few feet in the uphaul give you something to grab onto and make it easier.

Have a look here
yep wind to your back and sail in front of you, bend your knees.

If the mast is pointing into the wind, then pull on it a little bit to get part of the sail out of the water, and then let the wind spin you around 180 degrees. Note that the sail is still partially submerged.

Then when your back is to the wind, do your uphaul as normal.

Good luck, you'll get there

The luff sleeve (the part of the sail where the mast goes) is probably filling with water, not the mast itself. It will drain out when you lift up the sail. That's one reason why we try to avoid letting the sail fall all the way in if possible.

Good luck and keep up the good work!

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GusTee said...
. . . if the mast has been in the water for a while it feels heavier perhaps because the mast is now filled with water . . .

Assuming you've a two-piece mast, you should have four plugs (i.e. one at the end of each section) to keep the water out. If a plug is missing, make your own out of polystyrene 'pool noodle' material. Just cut it roughly to size - a bit oversize is best, and jam it in place.

Long term fix, of course, is to master water starts. Practice beach starts in progressively deeper water, say, to chest deep, then you're almost there.

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nebbian said...

If the mast is pointing into the wind, then pull on it a little bit to get part of the sail out of the water, and then let the wind spin you around 180 degrees. Note that the sail is still partially submerged.

Then when your back is to the wind, do your uphaul as normal.

Good luck, you'll get there

That is the trick. Just lift the sail enough to get the mast and luff tube out of the water, the wind will blow the sail and turn the board and sail until the mast is pointing directly downwind, then uphaul. The board will be pointing in the opposite direction to where it was before you started. If light wind, hold the mast and turn the board with your feet, otherwise tack or gybe if you can.

My advice is to learn to water start as soon as possible.
Up-hauling blows chunks and being good at it does not help you sail better or teach you to water start eventually.
Spend the time learning to water-start, and all your time on the water will be much more rewarding.

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KenHo said...

My advice is to learn to water start as soon as possible.
Up-hauling blows chunks and being good at it does not help you sail better or teach you to water start eventually.
Spend the time learning to water-start, and all your time on the water will be much more rewarding.

but sometimes when the wind drops, you still have to uphaul, so it's a good idea to know how to do it and have a good feel for it.

Yeah, but that's a good time to learn.
I learnt to up-haul in 1981, when I sailed Wally's for a few months, then did it again in 1994 when I came back to sailing.
I soon learnt to water start and have rarely up-hauled since.

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Windxtasy said...

KenHo said...

My advice is to learn to water start as soon as possible.
Up-hauling blows chunks and being good at it does not help you sail better or teach you to water start eventually.
Spend the time learning to water-start, and all your time on the water will be much more rewarding.

but sometimes when the wind drops, you still have to uphaul, so it's a good idea to know how to do it and have a good feel for it.

Uphauling is a handy skill. Even if you do not uphaul successfully you can uphaul to get the sail and board into a better waterstart position if for example you fall off in mid gybe and the sail is to leeward. Yeah waterstarts are better but sometimes the water feels a bit sharky or its a bit cold.

My advice for what its worth, when uphauling a big sail is to take it as easy as possible, uphauling a bit and letting the board spin around, taking little steps around the mast till the sail is dead downwind with the board across the wind and you can uphaul without the sail catching the wind and pushing it down.

Hey Mr. original poster, I have missed where in the topic you describe the board (size), the sail size, conditions (waves or not), your weight, and the wind speed.

The video is nice and all, but doesn't help as they're using a barge and no wind. It would be useful for beginners on the first 2-3 lessons, that's all. You will find the technique required for uphauling different on a small board when overwhelmed with waves and sinking. The sense of "urgency" when pulling is different on a small board.

Anyhow, guys are right: wait for the rig to gibe. AND if you're using a very small board for your weight, and that there is fair wind, try to pick up waterstarting. But do not do it full-time, for 2 reasons. First, I have seen people try the whole summer, and they get frustrated after a while. Do sail around, have fun, then spend 15-20 minutes trying, then get out again.

Second reason is that you need to be able to uphaul anyways for most boards, in case the wind dies, say. Do persevere at it, find a Tube that match your conditions, esp. size of board, wind, etc. You'll get there.

Back to waterstarting, when I teach I find it easier to learn neck-deep on a nice on-shore breeze - pick your conditions for learning. Don't go try when you're overpowered, nor off-shorish. I prefer teaching in a strong wind and smaller sail, than a huge rig - people get it faster that way.

When conditions are right, people learn pretty fast.

Now, if what you're sailing are larger boards - and hey that's fine I use them too in 15+ knots, then just persevere at it, that's all. There too, you'll improve faster the gibe trick in strong winds and small rig, rather than fighting huge 10m rigs. You'll learn on those to get out of the way fast.

Have a great summer!

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Mobydisc said...

Uphauling is a handy skill. Even if you do not uphaul successfully you can uphaul to get the sail and board into a better waterstart position if for example you fall off in mid gybe and the sail is to leeward. Yeah waterstarts are better but sometimes the water feels a bit sharky or its a bit cold.

My advice for what its worth, when uphauling a big sail is to take it as easy as possible, uphauling a bit and letting the board spin around, taking little steps around the mast till the sail is dead downwind with the board across the wind and you can uphaul without the sail catching the wind and pushing it down.

I suppose you wouldnt be out in strong winds and the argument would be for waterstarting then anyway but the reason I cautioned against uphauling when the sail is upwind is that yesterday it was quite windy ( for the sail size) but gusty so you needed to uphaul but if you got caught with the sail half up when a gust hit it would be a bit nasty.Also I was on a smaller wobbly board in chop so balance was an issue..

GusTee

congrats on the most original username on here for a while

I agree with much of the above but - it is never to early to learn to waterstart.

If it is windy enough to make it a little tiring to hold onto the rig, when you do have a prang, attempt a waterstart first if the rig is upwind of the board - just to fly the rig in the right position and maybe get the back foot up, not really trying to get it to lift you out of the water.
Then uphaul as normal.

It will help a lot later. Most people wait to learn it until they pretty much have to....

I went on holiday somewhere really windy, and decided to really learn how to gybe. But I ended up learning how to waterstart instead...it can work for you, too

Thanks for all the tips, will give them a try. I need a lot of luck to line up a weekend with the right conditions. At this rate, I think it's going to take a few years to get any good at it.

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GusTee said...

At this rate, I think it's going to take a few years to get any good at it.

Some of us have been at it a few years. And still trying to be any good at it.

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RAL INN said...

GusTee said...

At this rate, I think it's going to take a few years to get any good at it.

Some of us have been at it a few years. And still trying to be any good at it.

I've been trying to learn to gybe consistently for the last 18 months & I think I'm getting worse..

In addition to others' advice:-

Don't stand on the rail, but have your feet either side of the mast when uphauling. Apart from maximising stability, it gives you the leverage to turn the board with your feet.

Feet either side of the mast, bend your knees or if its really windy start off by squatting on the board and lean back until the sail has rotated so that it lays directly downwind, keep leaning back against the sail and dont rush, just be patient and the sail will free itself.

Be patient when you learn to waterstart too, the more you push and pull at the sail the harder it is to get it to release from the water.

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GusTee said...
....
Any tips for making life easier?

.....

No one's mentioned Easy Up-Haul yet.
The Easy Up-Haul is a fancy strappy buckly uphaul that allows you to use your harness for the hard part. Its easy enough to rig up a similar thing with a standard bungy uphaul and a bit of down haul rope. It makes life a lot easier particularly when the sail falls to the upwind side and you find yourself standing there with the sail partly out of the water waiting for the wind to turn you around.

Easy uphaul - do they really work? If they work well I'm surprised as to why it's not popular, I've never seen anyone with it before. Who uses them?

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GusTee said...

Easy uphaul - do they really work? If they work well I'm surprised as to why it's not popular, I've never seen anyone with it before. Who uses them?

They work all right. You see them occasionally. I think they are a bit pricy for what they are. As I said its a simple matter to tie a length of downhaul line to the middle of your uphaul. Tie an adjustable loop in the other end with a slip knot (google Tarbuck knot). Then when you're on the water you can adjust it to suit your setup.

A point which I don't think anyone else has caught. You stated taht you 'stand on the rail' which helps lift the sail out of the water. Stop that!
Don't let your heels hang over the edge, as soon as the sail starts to come out of the water, the board will roll underneath you and you'll fall backwards.

Keep your toes about level with the mast, you'll have less distance to shuffle the back foot forward once the mast reaches near vertical.

The extra weight comes from the luff sleeve filling with water. Once you've lifted the mast up and the sleeve is all out of the water, let the clew sit on the water for a few seconds, while the sleeve empties itself. Usually, all over your feet.

Good luck!

Mainly because water-starting is a lot more popular.
If I was sailing 11m marqee's on a floaty board in no wind, I would use an Easy-Uphaul.

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GusTee said...

Easy uphaul - do they really work? If they work well I'm surprised as to why it's not popular, I've never seen anyone with it before. Who uses them?

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japester said...

A point which I don't think anyone else has caught. You stated taht you 'stand on the rail' which helps lift the sail out of the water. Stop that!
Don't let your heels hang over the edge, as soon as the sail starts to come out of the water, the board will roll underneath you and you'll fall backwards.

I find that standing on the rail (sometimes with just one foot) does help to give the mast a little kick just to get it going and reduces the force required on the uphaul line. Especially when it's really windy with a large sail. As you said, the board will roll under you, unless you step back near the mast base as the sail rises out of the water. At this point most of the hard work is over.

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nebbian said...

If the mast is pointing into the wind, then pull on it a little bit to get part of the sail out of the water, and then let the wind spin you around 180 degrees. Note that the sail is still partially submerged.

Then when your back is to the wind, do your uphaul as normal.

Good luck, you'll get there

as neb's said( Note that the sail is still partially submerged) here a good tip mineral1 posted in another thread www.easyuphaul.com/waterstarter/default.htm
i'm sure if you can stop the clue from sinking it has to be easyer

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GusTee said...

japester said...

A point which I don't think anyone else has caught. You stated taht you 'stand on the rail' which helps lift the sail out of the water. Stop that!
Don't let your heels hang over the edge, as soon as the sail starts to come out of the water, the board will roll underneath you and you'll fall backwards.

I find that standing on the rail (sometimes with just one foot) does help to give the mast a little kick just to get it going and reduces the force required on the uphaul line. Especially when it's really windy with a large sail. As you said, the board will roll under you, unless you step back near the mast base as the sail rises out of the water. At this point most of the hard work is over.

Word of warning about standing on the rail and using it to assist getting the rig out of the water. It does your gear no good at all. It will eventually stuff up the rails of your board, cause unseen damage to your mast that will come back to haunt you at the worst possible moment and if the universal joint lets go then kiss fatherhood good-bye.
GusTee, from what you are describing it sounds as though you are bending over too far and using your back to haul the rig up. That would be the only way you can maintain balance whilst standing on the rail.
This would explain why you are finding it very hard work. Most of the effort for an uphaul should be provided through your legs.
Put your feet either side of the mastbase, squat down and grab uphaul line, lean slightly back on uphaul with your back strainght and then stand up pushing backwards whilst using your hands to gather more uphaul as you get further upright.
I've taught a few friends this and it works miracles (no more constipated facial expressions). You will quickly figure out how to use foot pressure to steer the board in the uphaul phase.
Good Luck and look after your back.

Has anyone tried using one of these?

www.easyuphaul.com/waterstarter/default.htm

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K Dog said...

Has anyone tried using one of these?

www.easyuphaul.com/waterstarter/default.htm

i have made something simular, it's two lengths of foam from bunnings that fit over the extension arms (split them then glued some velcro) , the arms become the same diameter as the boom grip

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keef said...

K Dog said...

Has anyone tried using one of these?

www.easyuphaul.com/waterstarter/default.htm

i have made something simular, it's two lengths of foam from bunnings that fit over the extension arms (split them then glued some velcro) , the arms become the same diameter as the boom grip

How did you find it?