What should I be buying a seat harness or waist ? Or is it just personal preference?

I'm ready , Ive got popcorn .
It will start off good with some valid points .
Eventually the tin hatters will tell you not to vax and the earth is flat .
Whatever you do , don't ask if you should undo vent plugs after each sail.

Well, we all beginners once. Mr smart ass ! Sorry for wasting your valuable time !

I use a seat harness. Like it for its low hook n distribution of load across my lower back.
PS. Stuff the vaxx. Make the Govt accountable for the substandard hospital system....
They've known for decades we have an ageing population n done nothing about it.
PPS. The earth ain't flat.

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peter608 said..
Well, we all beginners once. Mr smart ass ! Sorry for wasting your valuable time !

Don't think Imax is ripping on you bud.
Was referring to peeps individual likes n dislikes n the inevitable rabbitholes you could find yourself.

Although Imax1 is being smart he's also very correct.

Anyway, it is personal preference.

I cannot use a waist harness as I previously broke a few ribs and have a damaged lung, so I use a seat harness with a higher hook. It doesn't ride up and still gives you some freedom. I've also been sailing a long time and we only used to have seat harness's so there was no other choice.

I like the fact that I can get lower too when it blows up. Ask around and try a few, see what works for you. A waist harness will ride up to when you are in the water, so test them in a real world situation.

A waist harness is easier to get in and out of, but they tend to ride up and then they squeeze your ribs in the gusts.
I have been using seat harnesses on large sails and waist harnesses for waves, but the best harness I have found is the ones that are a waist harness with optional/removable straps that goes between the legs. With this the harness can be set at just the right height (over the hips) and the leg-straps will then ensure that it doesn't ride up during sailing. So the "hybrid" is what works best for me, I don't need any other harness now, just use the same for everything (3.7 - 10.7 sails).

Oh, and be sure to get a hook that is intended windsurfing (parallell sides on the hook) and not kite surfing.

Flat conditions I use a seat harness, choppy or bigger I use a waist harness. Everyone has their own preference but its as long as your not laying down in bed for hours after a sail due to an uncomfortable harness.

Peter, I've always had a stuffed upper back. So, it's seat harness for me. See if you can borrow a seat harness from a local sailor and try it out. I think waist harnesses would be more beginner friendly.

I vote for the waist-seat. The pure seat is too low for me, gives me a sore back. As mentioned the waist harness rides up. The combo harness sits higher and has good lumbar support, you can still sit on it to put all your weight on the rig.
If I have a bad back, the waist-seat will often improve it.

waist to start with if you're learning harness use - cos its easy in easy out.

Then after you are fully planing on wide boards with big sails ( (130L / 7m plus for most people) get a seat to load the mast foot properly.

If you stick with using 20L more than your weight and 6.5m or smaller in 20kn or better because you're learning in a windy spot, stay with the waist IF you want

I've never felt comfortable committing fully into a waist harness. It's poor technique I know but they do ride up on me, whereas a seat harness lets me drive hard through my legs with little load on my badly injured lower back. Still, the higher hook is easier to pop in and out of, especially on a foil. Last year I switched to the Liberty harness, which has a a slightly higher hook and although it has no legs straps it does have a section which sort of wraps under my butt so I can commit through my legs without being in a classic "7". No leg straps makes swimming and footwork in general less awkward.

My answer under gear here:
windsurfing.lepicture.com/tips-and-tricks/

What's your weight?

Its just a personal preference. There is no right or wrong.
I started out with seat harness for freeride & bump and jump.
I tried a waist harness in the late 90's and didnt get on with it.
In 2019ish I started having back issues and for 5.2m and below use a waist harness as sailing over chop/swell/waves it didnt make my back sore as it was easier to absorb the bumps with my knees. For 6m and above when its flatter water I dont have the same back issues, and using a seat harness is less tiring on longer none stop sessions.
Ive been having a bit of hamstring tendonitis lately and a seat harness isnt good for that so have been using a waist harness for the larger freeride sails. The waist harness isnt so good for early planing where I get going in the harness and feels a bit less capable of proving extra power when required, but gybing, tricks and general comfort the waist harness is better.
I use a waist harness for foiling, as the extra power you can get from a seat harness isnt required.
For a beginner, I would recommend a waist harness for easy of use but dont dismiss a seat harness for freeride sailing.

BTW, Imax1 was only joking saying expect a large number of answers saying waist is best, or seat is best. Another question to avoid is 'Which is best, a tendon or Boge type UJ?'' as that will induce a lot of similar polarised responses as well. Everything in windsurfing is compromise in one way or another.

Always have used a seat harness, first Dakine XT big comfortable for windsurfing, then got into foiling and went with a Dakine Reflex seat harness, gives more freedom of movement. Both seat harnesses could adjust hook to almost same height as a waist harness. Seat harness hook is always where it is supposed to be, and gives room for a PFD.

Personal preference. If possible try both. A few days ago went online window shopping for any season ending (northern hemisphere) deals for waist harnesses. Sticker shock. So if you have friends willing to let you try out harness. Take advantage of the opportunity.

Started with a seat harness. Anyone remember the company Visual Speed and Roller Bar? Six seasons later tried a DaKine waist harness and liked it better. Trashed that harness and replaced it with DaKine's latest model. Don't remember when, but purchased a too good a "deal" to pass on for a Dakine highback seat/waist. It has been sitting in storage after one try. I liked it, but still prefer a waist harness. 5th harness less the highback waist owned over 3 decades. Thinking it's time for a replacement? Or at least the bar web strap. Starting to fray.

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Sandman1221 said..
Always have used a seat harness, first Dakine XT big comfortable for windsurfing, then got into foiling and went with a Dakine Reflex seat harness, gives more freedom of movement. Both seat harnesses could adjust hook to almost same height as a waist harness. Seat harness hook is always where it is supposed to be, and gives room for a PFD.

At least from my experience. If proper fit the Dakine waist models used have always kept the bar where it should be. The above pictured old but still functioning harness's "power belt" has long lost the power. But over a wetsuit it still says put. I do wear an impact vest and helmet for foiling. A discontinued Dakine model. It like most newer impact vest are cut to allow for wearing waist harness. Enough added buoyancy (not US Coast Guard approved flotation device) that I notice it. Total freedom of movement.

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olskool said..

peter608 said..
Well, we all beginners once. Mr smart ass ! Sorry for wasting your valuable time !

Don't think Imax is ripping on you bud.
Was referring to peeps individual likes n dislikes n the inevitable rabbitholes you could find yourself.

+1. I don't think he was having a go at you.. It's just a subject that can have a lot of animated debate..

All I can add is that I've never had my balls squeezed by a waist harness

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sboardcrazy said..

olskool said..

peter608 said..
Well, we all beginners once. Mr smart ass ! Sorry for wasting your valuable time !

Don't think Imax is ripping on you bud.
Was referring to peeps individual likes n dislikes n the inevitable rabbitholes you could find yourself.

+1. I don't think he was having a go at you.. It's just a subject that can have a lot of animated debate..

First of all , I would like to make a public opology to Peter If you got offended . It was not my intention . I have never personally attacked anyone on seabreeze . It's not who I am . It's not what I did . I have time and it's not that valuable.
However I love taking the piss for a laugh and it's mostly at myself . My mistake for not bubblewrapping my post .
It would explain a lot if Peter was a kiter . ( ps , joke ).
If my comments offend then I would suggest airport security as a job . Those guys seem to have their humour gland removed .

I would vote for both.

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Mr Milk said..
All I can add is that I've never had my balls squeezed by a waist harness

Yeah, should have mentioned, I do wear an athletic cup in shorts with a cup sleeve (Ace brand) to prevent ball squeeze especially with a wetsuit.

A waist harness will promote better stance because a seat harness will let you get away with a crappy one.
Although if your widest point is your waist then a seat is probably best.

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peter608 said..
Well, we all beginners once. Mr smart ass ! Sorry for wasting your valuable time !

I think you may have misunderstood, the comedy from Imax was not directed at you, this is an age old question with very passionate believers on both sides. It has been asked before here with very heated and personal debates. So have other issues eg modern gear vs older gear or shortboards vs Windsurfers. It can all get very heated and quite personal, ironically his comments were intended to take the piss out of the heated debate he thought would ensue (i assume) but instead fulled some rage in your self!

No question here is belittled, we all learn from each other regularly.

I used to work making harness for while (force 4 surf designs - we made for most of the UK and european brands gul,tushingham,lodey,tega,mistral,lightwave etc ) there was only one style! We were using the chest style and the new seat or waist seat combos arrived and it was the best thing since sliced bread. Spreader bars were new as well! Even sliding spreader bars with the movable hook!

I still use a seat, I love the idea of a waist, but have never been able to get 'dialled in' wearing one , probably technique or 30 years of bad habits . I get way more tired in a waist as I find my arms work a lot harder. In a seat I use my weight to help control power. Im not a big guy and no athlete so need the help from gravity. Fatty Bum bum.

Nobody seems to have mentioned harness line length. It's a long time since I've used a seat harness but I am pretty sure that the lines were more like 30 inches than the 24 inches that I'm comfortable with using a waist harness.
That's something else that you have to pay a little bit of attention to peter608

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Mr Milk said..
Nobody seems to have mentioned harness line length. It's a long time since I've used a seat harness but I am pretty sure that the lines were more like 30 inches than the 24 inches that I'm comfortable with using a waist harness.
That's something else that you have to pay a little bit of attention to peter608

The Dakine XT and Reflex seat harnesses allow you to adjust hook to same height as a waist harness, so can use similar length lines.

I've tried to use a waist harness a few times and keep going back to the seat harness..

Same 24" lines waist or seat. I keep the harness straps loose, so actual harness line length might be 26".

I like waist for foiling and seat for windsurfing. There is also a school of thought that seat harnesses were originally designed to give extra power on narrower boards. When seats first appeared most of us were riding pencils.

I have a waisty that doesn't move around and by christ I'm keeping it. It's a second hand kidney belt style kite harness with a windsurfing spreader bar. I have since become too fat for it so I bought a new one. Also a kite harness but without the inner belt that keeps the old one from riding up. It moves around and I don't like it. So I'm back to the old waist harness but I have to suck in my guts to put it on.

If anyone knows where to find a chest harness with inbuilt flotation I'd love to hear about it.

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Cluffy said..
I like waist for foiling and seat for windsurfing. There is also a school of thought that seat harnesses were originally designed to give extra power on narrower boards. When seats first appeared most of us were riding pencils.

I have a waisty that doesn't move around and by christ I'm keeping it. It's a second hand kidney belt style kite harness with a windsurfing spreader bar. I have since become too fat for it so I bought a new one. Also a kite harness but without the inner belt that keeps the old one from riding up. It moves around and I don't like it. So I'm back to the old waist harness but I have to suck in my guts to put it on.

If anyone knows where to find a chest harness with inbuilt flotation I'd love to hear about it.

Google pro limit impact vest harness. It looks OK, meant for kiters but the hook looks like it is a windsurf one which is weird. Dakine have a similar one also.

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Cluffy said..
I like waist for foiling and seat for windsurfing. There is also a school of thought that seat harnesses were originally designed to give extra power on narrower boards. When seats first appeared most of us were riding pencils.

I have a waisty that doesn't move around and by christ I'm keeping it. It's a second hand kidney belt style kite harness with a windsurfing spreader bar. I have since become too fat for it so I bought a new one. Also a kite harness but without the inner belt that keeps the old one from riding up. It moves around and I don't like it. So I'm back to the old waist harness but I have to suck in my guts to put it on.

If anyone knows where to find a chest harness with inbuilt flotation I'd love to hear about it.

I would definetly buy either of these if only I could get one. They may be old models as they are not even on pro limit or dakine websites. The hook on the pro limit one looks like ready for windsurf.