Hi, I'm wondering about harness length. I'm 85kg, 5 foot 10 and have a freeride 135L board, generally sailing a 7.5 meter sail, preferring to be powered up. I can water start, am in the straps and jibing. What do people recommend in terms of harness line length and why?

My suggestion is to go as long as possible until any longer you cannot grip the boom with both hands comfortably or you find your butt dragging in the water. It's different for everyone as we are all built different, some like orangutans and some like crocodiles.

Buy (or borrow) some good adjustable harness lines and try both extremes (short and long). You'll be able to see the pro and cons by yourself.
Then you should be able to adjust then where you feel the best and by some non adjustable the same length.
Personally, I sail with different length whether I am on my wave gear, big or small slalom gear and strong wind or light...

yep.. everyone is different ,and depends on your hook high too.get a pair of 22" or 24" and muck around with the boom heights for big sails .
I'm 5'11 22" for slalom sailing suits me .for waves longer .24-26 .

I would say that for freeriding you should have harness lines around 30". That will allow you to keep the rig away from you and the body away from the board, which is faster and better in the chop. I use 30 or 32 and a bit longer with the formula. This also requires the hook around belly button height and the boom around the middle. There are some good articles on the net by Guy Cribb that explain the stance and harness lines relation.

Get ahold of a Guy Cribb tuning sheet, pretty hard to negate his theory on long lines especially when it works

Long and adjustable. If you sail in lighter winds and want to plane earlier then the boom can be set higher. With the higher boom the lines may need to be longer. The best advice is by the experts and Cribby has made a lot of his techniques available via his website.

Cheers all gooD stuff. My lines are 26 so will grab some 30s.

I've heard people say they use longer lines with smaller sails, shorter lines with bigger sails... and vice versa.

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Tardy said...
yep.. everyone is different ,and depends on your hook high too.get a pair of 22" or 24" and muck around with the boom heights for big sails .
I'm 5'11 22" for slalom sailing suits me .for waves longer .24-26 .

wow! That's extremely different to what 99% of training and Pro's Recommend.
28-32 for slalom/freeride and a normally a bit shorter than the above for wave and freestyle where you sail with a more upright inboard stance.
I'd be suggesting the above also, longer lines give you heaps more control especially in rougher and gusty water, short lines left us around the turn of the century.

Yep ..I'm old school alright ...20 years now.

or different ...?

listen to the pros ..not me ....short lines never left us .

as long as your comfy ..I ocean sail ..most of the time ..
i have tried long lines..just don't like em...I m proud to be that 1% .using them.

What ever works for best for you Tardy is best for sure, but you are in the 1% here, and the longer lines help more in Ocean sailing, shorts lines flat water is easier to do as reaction times etc are not an issue, I'm just trying to steer someone who is asking and possibly still learning onto a popular proven path .
I had short lines also many moons ago, and I think back to all the catapults, control issues etc back in the day, I'd happily say that short lines were a big Factor, the longer lines certainly help me where I sail Ocean open water most of the time.
Even when you look at the top Wave pro's their lines are normally on the long side.
Guy Crib who is arguably one of the best coaches out there is a massive fan of 30-32inch.
Wasn't a dig at you, I'm was just steering the answer down to the most proven path to better performance.

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JonesySail said..
What ever works for best for you Tardy is best for sure, but you are in the 1% here, and the longer lines help more in Ocean sailing, shorts lines flat water is easier to do as reaction times etc are not an issue, I'm just trying to steer someone who is asking and possibly still learning onto a popular proven path .
I had short lines also many moons ago, and I think back to all the catapults, control issues etc back in the day, I'd happily say that short lines were a big Factor, the longer lines certainly help me where I sail Ocean open water most of the time.
Even when you look at the top Wave pro's their lines are normally on the long side.
Guy Crib who is arguably one of the best coaches out there is a massive fan of 30-32inch.
Wasn't a dig at you, I'm was just steering the answer down to the most proven path to better performance.

No problem

I'm a noob and use 30" lines, for which I get ridiculed. But, I think they are actually longer than 30". Are lines even guaranteed to be their advertised length, or does every brand have their own idea of what an inch is?

I used relatively short lines until i did Guy Cribb course and he said get some 30" lines. I did and my sailing improved immensely. I'm still no pro and far from it but my unplanned catapults have been eliminated....until i'm doing something stupid

Matt Prichard is also an advocate of long lines especially for overpowered hi wind stuff ,30-32 inch.
Too his advice and it definitely works.

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MrCranky said..
I'm a noob and use 30" lines, for which I get ridiculed. But, I think they are actually longer than 30". Are lines even guaranteed to be their advertised length, or does every brand have their own idea of what an inch is?

From brand to brand I've never found advertised length the same.

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MrCranky said..
I'm a noob and use 30" lines, for which I get ridiculed. But, I think they are actually longer than 30". Are lines even guaranteed to be their advertised length, or does every brand have their own idea of what an inch is?

Harness lines can be measured in several different ways and length will vary depending on the thickness of the boom it's being measured on.

From our perspective, we now measure the physical length when stretched between two 29mm boom arms (nearest point to nearest point). This way our factory can consistently measure / replicate each production by using a jig.

Length can also be measured around the inside or outside of the harness line when fitted to a boom, but as mentioned above the length will vary slightly when boom arms can be from 25mm to 32mm in diameter.

Unfortunately no industry standardisation which leads to some variation between brands.




Hope this helps some
Cheers,
Marco

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slalomfreak said..
Matt Prichard is also an advocate of long lines especially for overpowered hi wind stuff ,30-32 inch.
Too his advice and it definitely works.

+1. After yet another clinic with Matt, even 28" lines are feeling too short. When you see a photo of yourself with the rig pulled over the top of you (slow) rather than upright (fast), and when your body shape is more of a 7 (leaning out) than a 6 (crunching down), you know that longer lines are in order.

I used adjustable lines for years until I did the Guy Cribb clinic. I thought 30" lines would be too long for a lady but they were spot on. I know use 30" lines and I never need to adjust them.

As mentioned above, it depends on your built as well.

A fellow (very experienced, and fast) sailor tried my set up and advised me that my 26" are too short, and he felt on the verge of being tipped over, and suggested 30".

Bought the 30" which make me sit very, very low. Pushed the boom up, but still....just didn't work for me. Had to revert to 26.
But I'm fairly long limbed 6'4".

It's not an expensive experiment anyway.
I now have 22', 24", 26", 30" ... I guess, I should try 28"

I have been to one or two of the GC clinics and read up on the ideal harness line lengths.

In reality, I think you can learn to sail with anything. I have some friends that have really short lines that to my mind are way too close to the rig, and other where they are too long and you feel like you are popping out of the lines a lot.

In line with GCs approach, I think changing your body position to create loading in the line helps.

I myself use adjustable lines but find they tend to be around 26" anyway, but I will vary them based on the wind strength.

I did read an article by Peter Hart which highlighted that arm length seemed to have more influence over which line length felt the most comfortable for each person, which makes a lot of sense. You can have a taller person with the same arm length as a shorter person, and they are both probably going to be comfortable on the same length lines.

I do find it amusing though that a few years back lines were short and getting shorter, and now we are getting back to longer lines. I vote, get adjustables, find what you prefer, maybe do a course or two, and try the options. For me, I want to be comfortable cruising as well as being fully powered up, so the line lengths change accordingly.

After using 24" lines for 20+ years, I recently moved to longer lines (currently 30") based on:

Victor Fernandez & Marcilio Browne both use 34" ...
boardseekermag.com/longform/pro-kit-marcilio-browne/
www.boardseekermag.com/longform/pro-kit-victor-fernandez/#Ijljiz77PgKgkCLA.97

And also after reading this Fanatic forum thread ...
www.fanatic.com/forum/read.php?1,18913
Craig G "As an example, recently in Pozo, I tried the rigs of Victor, Klaas and Gollito, all with extremely long harness lines - 34-36"...I usually sail with much shorter lines, maybe 26-28 and the sail really sheeted in, I guess from slalom racing days and overpowered wave sessions. Was super hard to get used to, as the rig is effectively straight up and you really stand over the board, instead of leaning out..on the first day I hated it, the second day it felt a bit better, by the 4th day totally normal and could really see the advantages in control, jumping hooked in etc... Just an example, but shows we can change our trim/setttings, even after 28yrs of windsurfing....:-))"

And also reading this ...
pritchardwindsurfing.com/harness-line-lengths-for-you/
I like to be in my harness lines all the time. With my 30” lines, I can sail around in my harness when there is no wind- I couldn’t do that with a 24” line. I can go through the surf when the wind is light in my harness. As soon as I jump on my board, the first thing I do is hook in! When the wind backs off or I run into a lull, I don’t have to unhook to stay balanced on my board!

Looking back over 20 yrs with 24", I think the lesson learnt is that I lost a lot of time on water not being able to hook when I wasn't planing. As Pritchard says, you need to be able to hook in when you are not planing (in addition to other benefits).

OK, after reading this I'm openly admitting I am out of date and been using 18" .....don't laugh!

Just purchased 28" lines and hope to try them tomorrow, they look so much longer than the old ones!

Ha ha, Gee that will make a huge difference in terms of control.

Re post on what you think once you tried out.

Used them today Clifton beach Tassy, in very onshore a bit gusty with shoulder high set waves.

They will take some getting used to but I certainly felt like the board was quicker onto the plane and the rig felt a bit more powered and sailed through lulls a bit better.

might raise my boom a bit more next time.