Has anyone had any relief from lower back pressure changing from waist to seat harness?
I have sensitivity from L 1 to L5. The Mystic Chamelion (waist harness) I've been using was good until I developed problems lower in the spine; not windsurfing related.
I sail wave gear.

I had quite a lot of back pain when I sailed with a waist harness (pretty old school one though). I switched to a dakine seat harness.

Back pain while sailing is a thing of the past. This may be due to other factors also, but I'm reluctant to switch back to a waist harness.

I mainly sailed longboards back then. Now it is a mix of wave and raceboard, but I don't want to have 2x harnesses and switch harness lines, so I still use the seat harness for everything.

Looks a bit gay with wave gear (and you need longer lines), but I'm very happy with it.

Clarence

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clarence said..
I had quite a lot of back pain when I sailed with a waist harness (pretty old school one though). I switched to a dakine seat harness.

Back pain while sailing is a thing of the past. This may be due to other factors also, but I'm reluctant to switch back to a waist harness.

I mainly sailed longboards back then. Now it is a mix of wave and raceboard, but I don't want to have 2x harnesses and switch harness lines, so I still use the seat harness for everything.

Looks a bit gay with wave gear (and you need longer lines), but I'm very happy with it.

Clarence

Can you post a pic of the Dakine pls. Does it have a protruding pad inside at the back? I think that me part of my problem.

Me, not just the lower back but also the knees, so I switched and both went away.
I went to the Flying Objects 'Transit' harness because it has a high hook, I also sail in the waves, so that's what I need.
It's been redesigned a bit, not sure if the hook is in the same place but pretty sure it is, and it's adjustable.
A pic like mine, I think it's a 2016, that hook shown is lower that where I have mine.

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Relic said..

clarence said..
I had quite a lot of back pain when I sailed with a waist harness (pretty old school one though). I switched to a dakine seat harness.

Back pain while sailing is a thing of the past. This may be due to other factors also, but I'm reluctant to switch back to a waist harness.

I mainly sailed longboards back then. Now it is a mix of wave and raceboard, but I don't want to have 2x harnesses and switch harness lines, so I still use the seat harness for everything.

Looks a bit gay with wave gear (and you need longer lines), but I'm very happy with it.

Clarence

Can you post a pic of the Dakine pls. Does it have a protruding pad inside at the back? I think that me part of my problem.

Dakine doesn't have a bump in the back. Pretty minimalist for a seat harness (no big fat layers of foam on it). You can borrow it some time if you want. Will post pic later.

Clarence

I agree with the transit as it feels like a waist harness but you can really pull it down low to almost function like a seat if you wish. Its an easier transition from what you are used to - a seat may be real hard on wave gear

I changed to a seat harness decades ago because of lower back pain. I've never had a problem since. I dislike the hybrid harnesses, i.e waist with nappy seat. I prefer a minimalist hip only harness with low hook.

Ive being using the transit harness now for must be 10 plus years.

In to my second one from 3 years ago.

Offers amazing back support compared to a normal seat harness.

I have added a narrow hook and cut away the two lower fasteners that hold the hook - so my hook is held by the two high fasteners. As a result my hook position is very high and it slides heaps for better pointing.

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John340 said..
I changed to a seat harness decades ago because of lower back pain. I've never had a problem since. I dislike the hybrid harnesses, i.e waist with nappy seat. I prefer a minimalist hip only harness with low hook.

+1

I have L3-L5 issues. Use a Mystic Battle belt, seat harness. Think its about 5yo. Has raised lumbar support. Find it very comfy. Feels good to have pressure/support along my spine.

I've had a bad back for all my windsurfing life. I've only used seat harnesses and currently have one the same as mastbender.

I'm not sure there is enough hook in the hook. It slipped out a few times so I swapped back to the spreader bar off my 1980's NP harness.

Never been a big fan of flying objects, just seems like a waist harness with an arse end sewn on it.

I have sailed since the 80s with arthritis in the same area as you and have survived it all with care and a good seat harness. Lately it has been one of the many versions of a kite Dakine, but they definitely change. I cannot speak for a transit harness but the seat harness transfers the stress area better than a waist harness you really are sitting on the power. I have to say people who say a waist harness is just as good don't know what a serious back problem really is, when you have been in and out of hospital and rehab for it you understand the difference. Remember a (high) seat harness hook makes no difference to wave riding you are out of it, it may look uncool but at my age who cares....

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Relic said..
Has anyone had any relief from lower back pressure changing from waist to seat harness?

Yes, had to do this a few years back. I have a few different seat harnesses that differ in how they distribute the load; some feel more like waist harnesses, but without any sliding up. Strap adjustment can also make quite a difference in the pressure distribution. One of my harnesses feels quite terrible unless straps are really tight, others are less sensitive, but still show different pressure distribution depending on how tight the leg straps are.

I switched to a seat harness after 3 years of windsurfing (I'm 46 now), and I found only benefits. First of all the bloody thing doesn't slip up every run, second it allows me to transfer the energy from the sail to the board with no effort, third my catapults have gone to zero, fourth my back doesn't hurt anymore.
My girlfriend thinks I look funny, but who cares?
Btw, I have a Dakine Reflex, a super minimalist version and super easy to use, especially with big sails.

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Agrid said..
I've had a bad back for all my windsurfing life. I've only used seat harnesses and currently have one the same as mastbender.

I'm not sure there is enough hook in the hook. It slipped out a few times so I swapped back to the spreader bar off my 1980's NP harness.

Your main hook strap/clamp was too loose.

I have always used seat, but honestly I think the most important thing as you get older is doing a lot of stretching and some strength work on core muscles... way more than any particular harness being a magic bullet

I was having back issues pretty often and even had a bad episode just taking a board off the top of my car, rotating my upper body. Immediately put it back and drove home.

Dr. said I lacked core strength, so for the last 20 years, I do at least twice a week weight workouts with a focus on my core. No big back issues for 20 years, but it still hurts some after sailing or golf. Warm up before stressing my back is critical. Always used a seat harness to keep the stress/pull on the hips and off my back. I'm 73 and have been windsurfing for 34 years.

As above ... developing posterior chain muscles (ie back, glutes, hamstrings) which are the largest muscles in the body but least developed for most people ...

deadlifts & squats are the key.

Thanks wind 0 12. I do manual labour. Climbing stairs & ladders, deadlifting squatting, lunging etc. etc. I can plank for 4 mins. I chase my 12 yo son around for hours on a mountain bike. The specialist on first meeting asked where I train. My response was 40 years of manual labour!!
I think my level of activity was the cause not the cure!!!! Too many deadlifts. It stirred up a vulnerable spine with degenerative issues which is now far more sensitive to even light pressure from the waist harness pad or anything else; car seat, the belt holding up my strides etc.
The objective is to maintain the level of activity by adopting strategies to avoid irritating a chronic problem. I do need to work on more control and not using 100% of my hyper mobile joints and pull back to 80%.
The reconditioning of the muscle groups is a valid point, which I'm doing.
I've tried a Severne seat which at this point seems to be doing the job a bit more sailing is needed to decide if it's the solution.
Thanks for all the input from all.

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Relic said..
Thanks wind 0 12. I do manual labour. Climbing stairs & ladders, deadlifting squatting, lunging etc. etc. I can plank for 4 mins. I chase my 12 yo son around for hours on a mountain bike. The specialist on first meeting asked where I train. My response was 40 years of manual labour!!
I think my level of activity was the cause not the cure!!!! Too many deadlifts. It stirred up a vulnerable spine with degenerative issues which is now far more sensitive to even light pressure from the waist harness pad or anything else; car seat, the belt holding up my strides etc.
The objective is to maintain the level of activity by adopting strategies to avoid irritating a chronic problem. I do need to work on more control and not using 100% of my hyper mobile joints and pull back to 80%.
The reconditioning of the muscle groups is a valid point, which I'm doing.
I've tried a Severne seat which at this point seems to be doing the job a bit more sailing is needed to decide if it's the solution.
Thanks for all the input from all.

Hi Relic. Bad back that you have there. Which Severne seat are you using? I have a POD and really like it but have a CMR on order which will offer a bit more upper support. Ill have to chase it up and do a comparison. The POD is super comfy but... well ill see when the other one arrives.

I have a completely different experience.
While sailing in seat harness, hardly could walk next day after bumpy session.Switched to waist harness and don't know what back pain is anymore. Maybe the only knee suffer a bit more (?) or that is just coincidence rather related to age (?)

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BSN101 said..

Relic said..
Thanks wind 0 12. I do manual labour. Climbing stairs & ladders, deadlifting squatting, lunging etc. etc. I can plank for 4 mins. I chase my 12 yo son around for hours on a mountain bike. The specialist on first meeting asked where I train. My response was 40 years of manual labour!!
I think my level of activity was the cause not the cure!!!! Too many deadlifts. It stirred up a vulnerable spine with degenerative issues which is now far more sensitive to even light pressure from the waist harness pad or anything else; car seat, the belt holding up my strides etc.
The objective is to maintain the level of activity by adopting strategies to avoid irritating a chronic problem. I do need to work on more control and not using 100% of my hyper mobile joints and pull back to 80%.
The reconditioning of the muscle groups is a valid point, which I'm doing.
I've tried a Severne seat which at this point seems to be doing the job a bit more sailing is needed to decide if it's the solution.
Thanks for all the input from all.

Hi Relic. Bad back that you have there. Which Severne seat are you using? I have a POD and really like it but have a CMR on order which will offer a bit more upper support. Ill have to chase it up and do a comparison. The POD is super comfy but... well ill see when the other one arrives.

Select to expand quote

BSN101 said..

Relic said..
Thanks wind 0 12. I do manual labour. Climbing stairs & ladders, deadlifting squatting, lunging etc. etc. I can plank for 4 mins. I chase my 12 yo son around for hours on a mountain bike. The specialist on first meeting asked where I train. My response was 40 years of manual labour!!
I think my level of activity was the cause not the cure!!!! Too many deadlifts. It stirred up a vulnerable spine with degenerative issues which is now far more sensitive to even light pressure from the waist harness pad or anything else; car seat, the belt holding up my strides etc.
The objective is to maintain the level of activity by adopting strategies to avoid irritating a chronic problem. I do need to work on more control and not using 100% of my hyper mobile joints and pull back to 80%.
The reconditioning of the muscle groups is a valid point, which I'm doing.
I've tried a Severne seat which at this point seems to be doing the job a bit more sailing is needed to decide if it's the solution.
Thanks for all the input from all.

Hi Relic. Bad back that you have there. Which Severne seat are you using? I have a POD and really like it but have a CMR on order which will offer a bit more upper support. Ill have to chase it up and do a comparison. The POD is super comfy but... well ill see when the other one arrives.

The one I'm trying is a Severne CMR which fits round my waist nearly as high as a waist harness with the hook height only marginally lower. It works well for me in bump & jump sailing but not so good in the surf.
In fact it's a bit dangerous in the surf because it hinders swimming a little and increases the tendency to catapult.
Both points raised above.
I'm reaching the opinion that my problem may stem from the bulky protruding memory foam pad in my waist harness not necessarily because it's a waist harness.
I'm going to try a new Severne waist harness; it's very light and without a lumbar pad.

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BSN101 said..

Relic said..
Thanks wind 0 12. I do manual labour. Climbing stairs & ladders, deadlifting squatting, lunging etc. etc. I can plank for 4 mins. I chase my 12 yo son around for hours on a mountain bike. The specialist on first meeting asked where I train. My response was 40 years of manual labour!!
I think my level of activity was the cause not the cure!!!! Too many deadlifts. It stirred up a vulnerable spine with degenerative issues which is now far more sensitive to even light pressure from the waist harness pad or anything else; car seat, the belt holding up my strides etc.
The objective is to maintain the level of activity by adopting strategies to avoid irritating a chronic problem. I do need to work on more control and not using 100% of my hyper mobile joints and pull back to 80%.
The reconditioning of the muscle groups is a valid point, which I'm doing.
I've tried a Severne seat which at this point seems to be doing the job a bit more sailing is needed to decide if it's the solution.
Thanks for all the input from all.

Hi Relic. Bad back that you have there. Which Severne seat are you using? I have a POD and really like it but have a CMR on order which will offer a bit more upper support. Ill have to chase it up and do a comparison. The POD is super comfy but... well ill see when the other one arrives.

The CMR is a big heavy harness but when it comes to support, it is super comfortable. I wore mine last Sunday for the first time in months at Primbee and had clearly forgotten how good it was. The hook is much higher than my other harness (Ion Fuel) but that's okay with me!

You are all wrong. Use the waist harness on Trochanter Major. Svein Rasmussen got a demo but did not get it. So did Dave Ezzy, Fanatic/Duotone, Klaas Voget, Kauli Seadi, Fededrico Morissio etc...It'l chang your windsurfing lives, but you will not get long enough lines if you are over 185cm.

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Relic said..

BSN101 said..

Relic said..
Thanks wind 0 12. I do manual labour. Climbing stairs & ladders, deadlifting squatting, lunging etc. etc. I can plank for 4 mins. I chase my 12 yo son around for hours on a mountain bike. The specialist on first meeting asked where I train. My response was 40 years of manual labour!!
I think my level of activity was the cause not the cure!!!! Too many deadlifts. It stirred up a vulnerable spine with degenerative issues which is now far more sensitive to even light pressure from the waist harness pad or anything else; car seat, the belt holding up my strides etc.
The objective is to maintain the level of activity by adopting strategies to avoid irritating a chronic problem. I do need to work on more control and not using 100% of my hyper mobile joints and pull back to 80%.
The reconditioning of the muscle groups is a valid point, which I'm doing.
I've tried a Severne seat which at this point seems to be doing the job a bit more sailing is needed to decide if it's the solution.
Thanks for all the input from all.

Hi Relic. Bad back that you have there. Which Severne seat are you using? I have a POD and really like it but have a CMR on order which will offer a bit more upper support. Ill have to chase it up and do a comparison. The POD is super comfy but... well ill see when the other one arrives.

The one I'm trying is a Severne CMR which fits round my waist nearly as high as a waist harness with the hook height only marginally lower. It works well for me in bump & jump sailing but not so good in the surf.
In fact it's a bit dangerous in the surf because it hinders swimming a little and increases the tendency to catapult.
Both points raised above.
I'm reaching the opinion that my problem may stem from the bulky protruding memory foam pad in my waist harness not necessarily because it's a waist harness.
I'm going to try a new Severne waist harness; it's very light and without a lumbar pad.

Yes of course the haarnesses are correctly buildt and ther emust be something wrong with our bodies.

One thing I've found which takes a lot of load of my back is the NP S1 Tracker bar
https://www.npsurf.com/products/s1-tracker-ez-set

It's got a pivoting hook which save a lot of twisting of your back when bouncing through chop

Video of it in action, the under boom angle give a good view of how much the hook moves when you get bounced around smoothing out the ride.


Apologies for the above boom angle

After lots of back slaps from forwards, I became more sensitive to harness support. That and the fact that my harnesses are old!

I shoved some foam or rash guard (or both) into the harness
as to have a nice low back support. Much like what we can find in cars. Amazing!