I've been looking at pics of me gybing v hot shots and I can see they seem to have the rig raked towards the eye of the wind / forward as they over sheet and enter..My mast is further back.. When things are going well I can do planing gybes ( although after 6months off I'll be lucky to be able to do anything! ) but feel this is the tip to really improve..?
I would have thought bringing the rig forward and oversheeting could end up with a catapult..?
I'm talking about flatwater mostly..
I know your supposed to let the rig pull you forward as you enter.. I think i did it once and it felt great but too whimpy to do it again.. ( especially in chop! ).
I have a fang where I broke my front tooth crashing into the boom on a failed gybe years ago..
Once I get back on the water and build my fitness up I'd like to improve my gybes..

When will we see you back Sue?

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Boombuster said..
When will we see you back Sue?

Well I'm aiming for in about 4 to 6 weeks but not sure if my ankle is...

Having struggled with gybes for years I can say that having that front arm straight and the rig way forward is the key to better gybes, but it does take courage to do it, because you feel like you are going to get pulled over the front, especially when overpowered.
1. it pulls you into the turn with more speed
2. it engages the rail and stops the board bouncing in chop
3. gets your weight forward so the tail doesn't sink & stall

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Windxtasy said..
Having struggled with gybes for years I can say that having that front arm straight and the rig way forward is the key to better gybes, but it does take courage to do it, because you feel like you are going to get pulled over the front, especially when overpowered.
1. it pulls you into the turn with more speed
2. it engages the rail and stops the board bouncing in chop
3. gets your weight forward so the tail doesn't sink & stall

That's probably where I'm going wrong as I know in theory to keep my front arm straight but really struggle to do it ..

Moving the Centre Of Effort of your sail forward, and into the inside of a turn, is a bit like turning on a motorbike. With a motorbike, you turn with the handle-bar, and your body follows and lean into the turn. However, if you ever saw motorbikes on speedways, the riders actually turn by using their body weight.

And the close analogy between a speedway motorbike race and a high speed gybe is leaning into the turn. Pushing your sail forward also helps with the rotation of the sail when you do a normal carve gybe. When the sail is released and rotated around, you will find the mast will miraculously fall into your waiting hand. Imagine an inverted cone formed by the mast, and the uni-joint being the tip of the cone.

Based on my own countless failures in the past, it is interesting to note that if your harboured some "dark thought" of a failure, you will fail ! It is about confidence. Learn to prepare yourself for some drastic catapult by curling your body and protect your face. I can't really explain how, but I believe instinctively, we all know how when the crunch comes...Thank goodness !

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Jupiter said..
Moving the Centre Of Effort of your sail forward, and into the inside of a turn, is a bit like turning on a motorbike. With a motorbike, you turn with the handle-bar, and your body follows and lean into the turn. However, if you ever saw motorbikes on speedways, the riders actually turn by using their body weight.

And the close analogy between a speedway motorbike race and a high speed gybe is leaning into the turn. Pushing your sail forward also helps with the rotation of the sail when you do a normal carve gybe. When the sail is released and rotated around, you will find the mast will miraculously fall into your waiting hand. Imagine an inverted cone formed by the mast, and the uni-joint being the tip of the cone.

Based on my own countless failures in the past, it is interesting to note that if your harboured some "dark thought" of a failure, you will fail ! It is about confidence. Learn to prepare yourself for some drastic catapult by curling your body and protect your face. I can't really explain how, but I believe instinctively, we all know how when the crunch comes...Thank goodness !

good analogy re the bike.
harboured some "dark thought" of a failure,,,this will be very appropriate once back on the water the first time after the ankle op..I'll have to have faith..

You've got a few of the better gybers around where you sail Sue, we all know who they are.
Watch, ask and listen

Are you leaning your body forward as well?
What bogs gibes is the tendency of keeping the body above the fin of the board.
It needs to be raking forward too above the mid distance from the front footstraps and the mast.

Its like riding a bike Sue .it will come back.
I sail in deep water and I know chop is a problem ,best to find a swell and gybe on it.

When you know theres sharks down there ,you don't blow many .

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Tardy said..
Its like riding a bike Sue .it will come back.
I sail in deep water and I know chop is a problem ,best to find a swell and gybe on it.

When you know theres sharks down there ,you don't blow many .

NOOOOOOOO!!! Don't think about the sharks! That is guaranteed to make you fall in!

There is good advice above but... if you do that without dropping your weight by bending your knees you will get pulled over and lose confidence. It's a balancing act - the more you can drop your weight low and balanced over well anchored feet, the more you can handle the power of the rig as you sheet in and move the mast forward, which will lead to better board engagement. I'm no expert but I have learnt this the hard way - when I'm tired at the end of a good session I'm far more likely to either not bend the knees or not sheet in enough and push forward.

It's the same in the foot transition, if you can't balance on one leg (you need to bend your knee for that), you are not going to have a balanced foot transition. Get your weight low.

Another tip to remember is - Eyes, feet, body - look where you want to go first, then move your feet keeping your body balanced, then move your body to the new direction. I don't think this is unique to a windsurfing move, watch ballet, martial arts, gymnastics - it's pretty common but for gumbies like me it does not come naturally. I'm more likely to move my body while watching my feet

Look at Peter Hart here - eyes looking out of the turn, front arm extended pushing the rig forward and away, weight really low and body balanced over the feet that are securely in the straps.





Then have a look at a classic karate stance - it's called the Cat Stance, and it's all about being balanced on one leg so the other can 'do stuff'. This is a great one for the foot transition, the knee is very bent and supports nearly the whole body weight on one foot. This allows you to look to the new body direction, move your front foot, then move the rest of the body by keeping the hips moving in the same plane (not rising, just rotating).





Have a look at Jem Hall to see what I mean, knees really bent to balance the sail forces and the power managed through the 'core'





and the Cat Stance for the transition keeping the weight low and eyes looking out of the turn which leads to the correct head and torso position for balance

Me knees aren't too good, as I hyper extended them a few times in my life, so putting my forward foot in the strap when gybing is not an option for me. If I do it that way, it puts way too much pressure on my knee when that forward foot is in the strap, because in order to gybe that way, your foot is pointed outward somewhat when leaning into the gybe, and it feels so awkward. So I don't gybe with my forward foot in the strap. Sometimes I do slip around when it is rough out, but I can still rip out gybes pretty well that way, just can't do a laydown or 360 gybe because I don't have the leverage by not having my forward foot in the strap. I just plain as fast as I can for the conditions, then broad reach a little, then carve it hard, and I come out of the gybe pretty well. Yeah, everyone seems to have their own method.

Good luck with yours.

Sailing other day on the river in 20-35 knots with gusts to 43 knots,I had to wait till I found a big lull on the outside to gybe.

Never pulled off one gybe off all day above 25 knots.

Gybing on the inside next to the car park in 25-35 knots - well I just backed off and stopped.

Thats why I love the river so much

Only a select few are good enough to gybe consistently in winds as crazy as we had on Saturday.

Performance 33,

What river were you on?

I only sail the Swan River mostly at Lucky Bay. According to Slowboat its one of the best places to sail and rig up in the world,and I agree.

Has a sandbank around 400-500 metres out that comes in handy if you are unsure of your gybes.

3kms wide so can offer long reaches. Flat water to the sandbank then reasonably choppy in the middle.

Aus 1111 prefers the crystal clear waters of the Indian Ocean but the numerous shark sightings have me running scared.

In high wind gybing ,there are no room for mistakes .just plant the rear foot even harder .
we don't have rivers

yes paddy mac .a classic kokutsu dachi.....Oos.

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sailquik said..

Tardy said..
Its like riding a bike Sue .it will come back.
I sail in deep water and I know chop is a problem ,best to find a swell and gybe on it.

When you know theres sharks down there ,you don't blow many .

NOOOOOOOO!!! Don't think about the sharks! That is guaranteed to make you fall in!

There is always the classic tack.stay loose never look down in the deep ...he's waiting .works for me .

Some good stuff on this thread. One point that hasn't been mentioned. In powered up gybes, especially, make sure you move your back hand down the boom. It'll make handling the power much more manageable.

Thanks everyone there are some good tips.
I usually just sail off by myself but I can see once I get confident with the ankle I should chase a few people + ask for tips..A video of me gybing would be good too but that's a bit hard to organise.

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Magic Ride said..
putting my forward foot in the strap when gybing is not an option for me. Sometimes I do slip around when it is rough out, but I can still rip out Catupults pretty well that way,
Yeah, everyone seems to have their own method.

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Sounds like you sail out of the straps

Be careful, you could damage your gear sailing like that

Aus 808,

This is now the second time I have to correct you about what I say. I said that I gybe out of the straps, never said that I windsurf out of the straps. This thread title is about gybing, so that's what everyone who comments here is talking about. I would recommend reading our posts carefully before responding. Not trying to be rude, but you tend to assum I said something when in fact it has never been said.

Oh and another thing, you are adding words that I never said when you respond, and that ain't cool my friend. I wrote, " I rip out gybes pretty well that way". You said I wrote, "I rip out catipults pretty well that way". When you quote someone, make sure you quote them, don't add words that someone never said. And you are someone who used to make booms? Glad I purchase my gear elsewhere. My god!!

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sboardcrazy said..

I would have thought bringing the rig forward and oversheeting could end up with a catapult..?

This won’t happen because you are over-sheeting and turning away from the wind, the power goes out of the sail very rapidly the moment you turn away.

Gybing in flat water is the easiest way to go. Reach back on the boom with you back arm and sheet in and push forward as you start your turn away. In a second or two your board will be pointing straight down wind. This is the point when you let go with the back hand and start the rig flip. If you are step gybing do the foot change now. It’s important to determine before you go out where direct downwind is. Pick a land mark and tell yourself that you will start the flip when you are pointing at your downwind landmark.

During the carve bend your knees a little bit as a shock absorber and to keep your centre of gravity lower but stay firm in your ankles. Going all soft wastes all the available energy and you’ll slow down too much.
Because you have reached back on the boom and tried to push the mast forward you will find the rig is in an ideal position for the rig flip. Pushing the rig forward maintains downward pressure in the mast step and keeps the board stable in the water too. Do your best not to look down during all this or you will fall. Look at the sail, look at the sky, look at your landmark, but don’t look down.

If you do all this you will find one of two things will happen. 1 - You will plane through the gybe, or, 2 - you won’t plane through, but you will end up with your body in the right position to gather in the sail and set off on the new tack.

The main thing in all of this, and the number one mistake people make, is delaying the rig flip. You have got to go early, much, much earlier that you think seems prudent. It takes some training because it feels like you are giving up your security blanket and you will fall in. But what will actually happen is your foot change will keep the board turning and you will find the rig coming into your hands in the perfect reaching position as you exit the gybe.
The final icing on the cake will be when you start to flick your head around during the change and look out to windward. This has an amazing effect in helping sustain the board’s trajectory and in bringing the rig to hand. Everything lines up so perfectly you won’t even have to think about hooking in. Instinct will do that for you. It’s quite magical.

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Magic Ride said..
Aus 808,

This is now the second time I have to correct you about what I say. I said that I gybe out of the straps, never said that I windsurf out of the straps. This thread title is about gybing, so that's what everyone who comments here is talking about. I would recommend reading our posts carefully before responding. Not trying to be rude, but you tend to assum I said something when in fact it has never been said.

Oh and another thing, you are adding words that I never said when you respond, and that ain't cool my friend. I wrote, " I rip out gybes pretty well that way". You said I wrote, "I rip out catipults pretty well that way". When you quote someone, make sure you quote them, don't add words that someone never said. And you are someone who used to make booms? Glad I purchase my gear elsewhere. My god!!

I actually said it "sounds like" because you say "putting my forward foot in the strap when gybing" then it must be out of the strap before gybing.
That would indicate sailing out of the straps wouldn't it?
I thought I read that pretty well

I was just pointing out that that's probably the cause of your frequent catapulting & boom damage

Anyway sorry if I upset you Scott

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Heisenberg said..
Some good stuff on this thread. One point that hasn't been mentioned. In powered up gybes, especially, make sure you move your back hand down the boom. It'll make handling the power much more manageable.

And easier to crank on the power into the turn

Sheet in hard as you start to carve, seems to keep the board flatter and stop it bouncing through the turn.

It's hard, but you need to go into gybes fully powered up at max speed, be aggressive

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Shifu said..

sboardcrazy said..

I would have thought bringing the rig forward and oversheeting could end up with a catapult..?

This won’t happen because you are over-sheeting and turning away from the wind, the power goes out of the sail very rapidly the moment you turn away.

Gybing in flat water is the easiest way to go. Reach back on the boom with you back arm and sheet in and push forward as you start your turn away. In a second or two your board will be pointing straight down wind. This is the point when you let go with the back hand and start the rig flip. If you are step gybing do the foot change now. It’s important to determine before you go out where direct downwind is. Pick a land mark and tell yourself that you will start the flip when you are pointing at your downwind landmark.

During the carve bend your knees a little bit as a shock absorber and to keep your centre of gravity lower but stay firm in your ankles. Going all soft wastes all the available energy and you’ll slow down too much.
Because you have reached back on the boom and tried to push the mast forward you will find the rig is in an ideal position for the rig flip. Pushing the rig forward maintains downward pressure in the mast step and keeps the board stable in the water too. Do your best not to look down during all this or you will fall. Look at the sail, look at the sky, look at your landmark, but don’t look down.

If you do all this you will find one of two things will happen. 1 - You will plane through the gybe, or, 2 - you won’t plane through, but you will end up with your body in the right position to gather in the sail and set off on the new tack.

The main thing in all of this, and the number one mistake people make, is delaying the rig flip. You have got to go early, much, much earlier that you think seems prudent. It takes some training because it feels like you are giving up your security blanket and you will fall in. But what will actually happen is your foot change will keep the board turning and you will find the rig coming into your hands in the perfect reaching position as you exit the gybe.
The final icing on the cake will be when you start to flick your head around during the change and look out to windward. This has an amazing effect in helping sustain the board’s trajectory and in bringing the rig to hand. Everything lines up so perfectly you won’t even have to think about hooking in. Instinct will do that for you. It’s quite magical.

I'll have to concentrate on the pushing the rig forward as I over sheet ( front arm straight..). I'm good at looking at the exit . I look there most of the gybe and do the rig flip by feel / instinct..The rare time I don't look at the exit it stuffs things up..
Re landmarks..I remember one session in a different wind direction..I don't often stuff up but got backwinded and flattened..

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AUS 808 said..

Heisenberg said..
Some good stuff on this thread. One point that hasn't been mentioned. In powered up gybes, especially, make sure you move your back hand down the boom. It'll make handling the power much more manageable.

And easier to crank on the power into the turn

Sheet in hard as you start to carve, seems to keep the board flatter and stop it bouncing through the turn.

It's hard, but you need to go into gybes fully powered up at max speed, be aggressive

I actually used to gybe better in chop a few years ago- I'd go for it and when really powered in a gust gybe and was pulling off some planing exits..
Too much flatwater sailing has made me whimpy. Now in chop I gybe in the lulls which ensures I don't fall in but no planing exits.. ..
Actually that's probably because the only time I sail in chop now is in under 20kts and I have big heavy cammed sails up that I don't want to drop in the water..A 7 or 7.8m that could fill up with water and give me a swim in.. I'm 5'6 & 65kgs..

For the last few years I've been concentrating on flipping the sail over much earlier.

Most,around 95 percent wait way too long.

Most of the PWA level guys flip it over without grabbing the mast - that feels foreign to me.

Grabbing the mast is safer but slower!

I never catapult on gybes, I only catipult on beam reaches if there is a gust I miss. But that's only 2-5 catipults a season. It's all good.

In 10-15 knots the water is usually pretty calm - make nearly a 100 per cent of them,come out planing mostly.

15-20 knots - water a bit less calm - I'm a lot less aggressive in the turn,rarely fall off,come out sub planing mostly.

20-25 knots - another level less aggressive,make most of them but rarely come out planing.

25-35 knots - key here is to use a small sail. Must pull the back hand in 'hard as' to kill the power in the sail.

Make around 50 percent of them max. Not looking for speed here just completion.

thanks Shifu, very well explained

nigel novice gyber!