there is one othodox way to swing a golf club too, many have become world class by swinging it the 'wrong' way.

Greg Norman swung very upright,others swing crouched over,whatever feels natural go with.

i tried 30 inch lines for 2 seesions and i could not get upwind.

off the wind in choppy water was the only time when it felt right for me.

i have a closed mind and i sail what is comfy.

nebbian said...

choco said...


harness lines are very personal, i use 34cm for flat water waves and racing,

Cripes that's pretty short... I use about 65 cm lines

I think when he means 34cm its measured from boom to the the point where it is stretched out the most when hooked in.

Weird hey, I got a set of 32" lines (81cm) and it took awhile to get used to them from 28". Im on the tall side of short but I like to get away from my rig (usually sailing slalom boards with seat harness) and at first I was too close to the water but when you hang off the rig and fully load the fin it feels sweet. Still learning!!
A guy I sail with uses 20" lines and i just cant get my head or the physics of being that close to the rig, very unco to me!!

Been trying to adjust to longer lines also and having plenty of fun in the process - think I could still be carrying an extra litre of water from some classic @rse slaps during todays sail.....

I can see/feel the benefits of being more upright when I can get there, but it seems to be dependant on being fully powered up. When it's marginal or I hit a lull (very frequent where I sail) I can feel the sail wanting to rake back and I end up dangling off the lines as target practice for the next piece of chop. It's like the lift in the sail drops and to try and compensate and keep the sail forward you push off the back foot, which just sets you up for a stall as you lose MFP.

So for the long-liners out there. What bit of technique do you use to power through lulls with your upright stance and long lines? My technique for mid sized lines is simply to hang off the lines to try and get my feet as light as possible on the board and maintain MFP. There must be something else to it though right? I mean regular salt water enemas cant be part of the deal?

izaak said...

nebbian said...

choco said...


harness lines are very personal, i use 34cm for flat water waves and racing,

Cripes that's pretty short... I use about 65 cm lines

I think when he means 34cm its measured from boom to the the point where it is stretched out the most when hooked in.

Yep there are 2 ways to measure them, something to watch out for when buying them. Im using 30cm inside boom to the loop which measure about 26in when laid out so I dont have them too long but I do run them only a fist apart though. I prob try 28s at one stage and give them ago.
I know people that have tried going from 24in to 30in in one step and has all sorts of probs. I think its prob easier to gradually go longer rather than in one big step.

Bender said...

>>>>>>

Dont know if this is correct but it works for me

Hmmm, if it works, can it be "incorrect"?

Maybe it's not conventional wisdom, but sometimes "conventional wisdom" doesn't have all the answers.

Try the accepted technique, sure, but don't be afraid to experiment and try stuff for yourself.

There have been cultures that got so bound up in doing things the "approved" way they stagnated and lost all innovation and development.

i sailed 19" for quite a few years, which, as long as the wind was cranking, suited me fine. now I realise it made me ride my boom low and pulled the rig windward. when i moved state my local was predominantly marginal winds and i was constantly slogging when i knew i should be planing - the solution that worked for me (after a lot of experimentation) was a higher boom and longer (26") harness lines.

i find Ant's statement interesting that comfy is 'wrong'. i may not be catching micro-naps, but i always try and find the tuning spot in my rig where i feel comfortable and that usually means a fun session. then again - i'm polar opposite of pro!

make your own lines from a boat shop then you can have lines any length you want and they will last a life time too

wespyyl said...

I use the NP adjustable i think i got 24"-30" (or maybe 22"-28") ones. When its lighters i have them a little longer and when its windier i have them a bot shorter.

With long lines through the lulls i push myself forward and bend my front leg so i'm hanging from the boom and pushing down through the mast foot while still pushing with my back leg to drive the fin. Do the same thing when going upwind in marginal conditions.

I just got rid of my NP adjustables for a set of fixed length 28"s to try and standardize that part of the equation plus they slipped regularly during a sail which was getting worse as they got older. The adjustables I tended to have around 26" on a seat harness. I've just recently moved to a waist harness as well so a few moving parts to adjust to.

Interesting that you like the lines shorter when it's windier as I seem to want them shorter when it's light. So when you hit a lull you keep the sail upright and swing "under" the boom by bending the front leg? That's pretty similar to what I did on the shorter lines and seat harness. Maybe the geometry is just different now because it seems like you have to come in a long way over the board to hang off the lines? Much more pronounced movement inboard than on the seat, though with a higher hook and longer lines I guess that makes sense. Sounds like I just need to HTFU and get under the boom! That combo of sheeting in, heading downwind and getting low over the board sounds more like pulling the trigger on a forward than sailing through a lull.....

sausage said...

wespyyl said...
I use the NP adjustable i think i got 24"-30" (or maybe 22"-28") ones. When its lighters i have them a little longer and when its windier i have them a bot shorter.

With long lines through the lulls i push myself forward and bend my front leg so i'm hanging from the boom and pushing down through the mast foot while still pushing with my back leg to drive the fin. Do the same thing when going upwind in marginal conditions.

Wespyyl,
This is the reverse of what you should do (well it's what I do anyway ). In lighter winds and when pointing up wind shorten your harness lines, but in stronger conditions lengthen then. I sail with 30" fixed on my smaller boards but have 26" - 32" adjustables for the big rig (8.8 CRed with iS122). Shortening them in lighter conditions keeps your body weight over the board more and thereby doesn't load the fin up too much. This also works for pointing hard as you can get your body in closer and forward to the rig.

Also if sailing really powered up I will move the lines back slightly which tends to compensate for stance change.

Ever since i changed to 34" lines in the middle of last year my sailing(speed) has really improved, i find that having longer lines allows me to get my body away and back from the rig and driving the power through my front leg, dont have much pressure on the back foot even when going upwind(sort of lean my body forward).

barn said...

Short harness lines are a remnant of windsurfings darkest days... narrow,long and low volume boards, long masts, fat booms, short harness lines ... most has changed except peoples obsession with short lines.. get over them, they are rubbish, the only reason people find them comfortable is because they have been using them for 20 years...

Buy longer lines, move 'em further back and it will be uncomfortable (thats the feeling of learning).. also buy a new wetsuit, yours has holes in it.. and dont walk around the beach in your underpants, your making the sport unattractive.. ignore this community announcement if you have longer lines now than in 1999

Hey Barn, I would have thought harness line length was not that important for you as you appear to spend so much time out of the lines, based on the all the freestyle moves you are always performing!

choco said...

sausage said...

I sail with 30" fixed on my smaller boards ................

Ever since i changed to 34" lines .................................

Yes I do believe that average difference in arm length between homo erectus and homo sapien is around 4".

choco said...

sausage said...

wespyyl said...
I use the NP adjustable i think i got 24"-30" (or maybe 22"-28") ones. When its lighters i have them a little longer and when its windier i have them a bot shorter.

With long lines through the lulls i push myself forward and bend my front leg so i'm hanging from the boom and pushing down through the mast foot while still pushing with my back leg to drive the fin. Do the same thing when going upwind in marginal conditions.

Wespyyl,
This is the reverse of what you should do (well it's what I do anyway ). In lighter winds and when pointing up wind shorten your harness lines, but in stronger conditions lengthen then. I sail with 30" fixed on my smaller boards but have 26" - 32" adjustables for the big rig (8.8 CRed with iS122). Shortening them in lighter conditions keeps your body weight over the board more and thereby doesn't load the fin up too much. This also works for pointing hard as you can get your body in closer and forward to the rig.

Also if sailing really powered up I will move the lines back slightly which tends to compensate for stance change.

Ever since i changed to 34" lines in the middle of last year my sailing(speed) has really improved, i find that having longer lines allows me to get my body away and back from the rig and driving the power through my front leg, dont have much pressure on the back foot even when going upwind(sort of lean my body forward).

OK, think I got it nailed today with a bit of unco experimentation.

Found the combo of bending the front leg while at the same time leaning my body forward (kind of felt like slanting across and around the mast) did the trick. Kept the sail upright - perhaps even slightly more upright than when powered and with the bent front leg and harness sharing the bulk of my weight managed to avoid that sinking feeling. The movement forward around the mast also encouraged a gradual tracking of the board downwind and an automatic sheeting in to keep more power in the sail. Seemed to have heaps more power in the rig to glide through the lulls than the old seat harness and 26" lines.

Thanks for the input, I reckon I'm a long line convert!

sausage said...

Good to hear UF. Sometime in the future you may also want to try to straighten your front leg and leading arm and twist your hips perpendicular to the board . The stance is initially very awkward but allows you to point really high and maintains a much better speed than if front leg bent and body weight forward. Don't quote me on this but I think it levels the board out reducing tail drag. It doesn't work really well in light conditions though as you end up going between the two stances mentioned above.

Fully powered I've now got the front leg straight and back leg bent while being upright. This feels totally sweeeeet!!!

The bent leg, swing forward and around the mast thing seems to have the lulls sorted.

Found I was using a combo stance of bent front leg but less pronounced swing forward to get upwind (think because the swing forward and upright had the sail more upright, which is not ideal for upwind?). Wasn't really pushing upwind much today though, so maybe next sesh I'll try "a choco" and concentrate on getting a bit forward, but raking the sail back.

windsufering said...

make your own lines from a boat shop then you can have lines any length you want and they will last a life time too

Yeah! People that buy them are just cashed up bogans right?