Hey guys, and girls if there are any out there, just hoping to get some advice on making ground upwind.

I find that most of my time windsurfing is spent precariously tilting the sail back in order to make that little bit of extra upwind distance, which is instantly lost as soon as I get sick of this and just go for maximum speed.

On strong and gusty days, such as today, I always end up a fair bit downwind of where I start on the beach and have to drudge up, dragging my kit behind me.

Any tips?
How much does the fact that I usually fail to put enough downhaul on the sail have to do with it? (I always only notice after I'm in the water)
Also, possibly related, where should you put your hands on the boom?

Thanks

www.guycribb.com/userfiles/documents/cranking%20upwind.pdf

thats a pretty good read ^

That's a pretty good guide, however as noted on the last page the technique differs drastically between say a wave/freestyle board with a small fin to say a slalom/formula board. That article is gear towards wave/freestyle stuff which due to teh small fins requires a very upright rig/stance, lots of front foot pressure, windward rail in hard etc.

The technique to get a slalom or formula board upwind is massively different.

What sort of gear are you riding?

Depending on how high you want to point (how much into the wind you want to go), taking your back foot out of the footstrap and putting it in front of the back strap makes quite a difference. But only do this if you are really wanting to point high.

Putting on more downhaul also makes quite a difference, as long as you are still well powered up. The sail will feel like it's slicing cleaner upwind ( a flatter sail will produce less drag).

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Patchk said...

Hey guys, and girls if there are any out there, just hoping to get some advice on making ground upwind.

I find that most of my time windsurfing is spent precariously tilting the sail back in order to make that little bit of extra upwind distance, which is instantly lost as soon as I get sick of this and just go for maximum speed.

On strong and gusty days, such as today, I always end up a fair bit downwind of where I start on the beach and have to drudge up, dragging my kit behind me.

Any tips?
How much does the fact that I usually fail to put enough downhaul on the sail have to do with it? (I always only notice after I'm in the water)
Also, possibly related, where should you put your hands on the boom?

Thanks

the infamous 'walk of shame'..since you mentioned it's gusty might as well gather as much wind and speed at a broader angle when it hits you then with a little push on the back foot pressure go upwind as much as you can and make use of the speed..when things slow down try putting back the sail in a straight upright position to wait for another gust..worst thing is when you stall by raking the rig backwards all the time..my point is 'scallop' your way upwind in increments

Its not a bad idea to be aware of wind direction. The wind rarely blows consistantly from one direction, especially when its gusty. So if you are prepared to tack to turn a header into a lift then you can make up a fair bit of ground and still keep up your speed.

Thanks for the replies, I'll give the tips a go, that guide seems good, any others like that?
The main problem I have now is that I go as far into the wind as possible but when the wind changes a bit I find I'm on the wrong side of the sail and have to push like hell as to not get pushed backwards, presumably this is what you call stalling? And as I said before any ground I make doing this is always lost either when turing, falling in or when I just fang it.

cheers

Move your mast-track back.

If you are on slalom kit you should be perfectly balanced when sailing slightly upwind of a beam-reach. If you are finding that your board keeps wanting to bear off, it's likely that moving the track back a cm or maybe more will balance everything out for you. You will know when it is too far back as it will start to become more difficult to sheet all the way in.

Hope this helps.

Dunno why someone thumbed down my last post, I wasn't trying to be a smartarse or anything like that. It sounds like you are aware that the wind changes direction and while trying to sail upwind the wind changes direction and you stall.

What sort of board are you sailing and is it easy to tack? Without reasonably good tacking its going to be difficult to sail upwind, especially in marginal gusty conditions. The great thing about tacks is you can get upwind a few meters in the transition from one tack to the other.

Stupid question time (please don't be offended)

Are you planing?

I certainly can't sail so high that a slight change in wind direction back winds me, seems like you're pointing as high as possible, and shouldn't end up downwind. Not sure what's going on here, be good to see it happening.

Mobydisc, I wondered about that red thumb, think there's some strange people on this forum at times.

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AUS1111 said...

Move your mast-track back.

If you are on slalom kit you should be perfectly balanced when sailing slightly upwind of a beam-reach. If you are finding that your board keeps wanting to bear off, it's likely that moving the track back a cm or maybe more will balance everything out for you. You will know when it is too far back as it will start to become more difficult to sheet all the way in.

Hope this helps.

hi aus111 am not trying to step on your toes but would it be better to move the mastrack forwards for more upwind reaches considering Patchk is on the straps and at speed

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jp747 said...
considering Patchk is on the straps and at speed

Where'd he say that?

Beans! Beans get up wind.

Lot's of unknown variables, do we know what sort of gear he is on.....145L board with a 24cm wave fin? ........ need more info. Planing...not sure how you can get back winded...must be in non planing situation.

I suspect his wind is off-shorish too, that could also explain the problem.

Please state your gear, wind speed, and wind direction to the shore.

Try some ENO!

Too many things to say... I appreciate everything said so far so I'm hesitant to give any more info. Already so much has been said that I'm not sure I need any more tips. Just for your interests though, it’s a 130L Exocet board, I’m 70kg, 5.8m2 sail, big fin, I don’t know how big but I’m sure it’s not a problem.

After reading the comments I don’t think I’m really doing much wrong except for going out when it’s too windy. I’m probably loosing most of my ground when I fall in. When I find myself downwind I often think maybe I should go out again to make some ground up, then I look at my red hands and feel my sore lower back and decide that the walk is probably an easier option. On low wind days it's never a problem.

Re: planing, yes when I get going fast enough, same for feet in foot straps, although I rarely get going reliably fast enough for this.

Feel free to add more comments if you want, but I think I get the gist of it.
Cheers

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jp747 said...

AUS1111 said...

Move your mast-track back.

If you are on slalom kit you should be perfectly balanced when sailing slightly upwind of a beam-reach. If you are finding that your board keeps wanting to bear off, it's likely that moving the track back a cm or maybe more will balance everything out for you. You will know when it is too far back as it will start to become more difficult to sheet all the way in.

Hope this helps.

hi aus111 am not trying to step on your toes but would it be better to move the mastrack forwards for more upwind reaches considering Patchk is on the straps and at speed

Moving the track forward to assist in getting upwind is really only something you would do if you were trying to use the leeward rail as a source of lateral resistance, as in sailing a longboard.

On a slalom board there is little or no rail in the water anyway, and so the fin is the only thing that matters. If you move the mast track forward, you are moving the rig's centre of effort forward, so you would then have to rake the rig further back in order to sail in a straight line. There is only so far you can rake the rig back, so if the foot of the sail is starting to touch the deck, that is definitely too far, and you would probably be in quite a twisted body position to do it.

It's all about balance.

Provided you are powered up and have a big enough fin, sailing upwind on slalom gear should be easy and comfortable. If you are finding it difficult to point upwind without getting into some kind of contorted body position where you are looking way back over your front shoulder, it is most likely because the mast track is too far forward.

i'm having the opposite probs.....Sailing with mates on Sunday (cruising in bay), I found that I was going too far upwind! (One of the guys had the cheek to call me an 'unsociable sailor'!!!) Took me ages to get back to them, because everytime a good puff came through, I grabbed it and ended further upwind!

I reckon I had my mastbase too far back (about 128 from tail), to make sure I didn't nosedive into chop. Once planing, and in the windchannel, all I could do was hang on for dear life, and follow the nose of the board upwind (planing well/straps/harness before anyone asks).

So....given my predicament, I'd recommend moving the mast track back, upsizing the fin (maybe) and creep upwind when you can.

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555 said...

jp747 said...
considering Patchk is on the straps and at speed

Where'd he say that?

just a hypothetical remark of mine