Hi From Canada,

I have been windsurfing for over 25 years and am comfortable with pretty much any board and sail combination and most conditions that Mother Nature can throw at us. Last year I purchased a JP Supersport 118. I wanted a fast board for the 7.0 - 9.0m2 range in order to get on the water more. I am 6ft 1in and 185lbs. I don't have a lot of experience sailing widestyle boards as my go to board is my Naish 8"9' (92L).

PROBLEM: With my 7.5m2 Ezzy Infinity (with stock 42cm JP fin) and my 8.4m2 NP V8 (with 48cm Maui Fin co. Freerace fin) I am having a hard time getting upwind. I have moved the mast track back, I have tried to get up to top speed then carve upwind and ride the fin, I have tried to get up to speed and push harder on my rear foot. How can I get this board to go upwind so I don't only do Back and Forth windsurfing?

Cheers,

TommyB
Ottawa. Canada

look on the internet for Guy Cribb tips on how go upwind, he explains the right stance, basically push your ass/weight forward and straighten the back leg, maybe you're keeping your weight too far back...

I've had trouble with this too but after buying a new board had to admit the problem was with me. What I found worked for me was to bank the board by lifting your toes, in effect, carving upwind. This gives you the lateral resistance to stop you sliding downwind. Now to stop the board from rounding up you have to move your weight forward, lean as much as you can towards the front of the board and keep the mast upright to get the most force from the wind on it.

in my experience, i find how the sail is set makes the biggest difference to going up wind with easy, i use NP race sails and sail overpowered alot, so when there set full, not much outhaul, i find it hard to drive up wind, when i pull it tighter, more outhaul, makes a big difference, thats assumming your proper powered up, but dumping some power will definitely help,,Tarzan swinging on vines through the forest, AAAAARRRRRGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHH!!!, out! another tip for actually driving the board, is too rake the sail back, getting your wieght forward, maybe even take back foot out of strap and place on rail near front strap, driving hard, that also helps,,,King Kong climbing buildings and punching out planes, out!

agreed, not enough outhaul

your sail is stalling because of your upwind aoa. for good upwind aoa you need a finer entry on the draft.

try an adjustable outhaul.

Have you tried adding more outhaul?

Hi Tommy. I'm not your height/weight, and am an under powered sailor, so I'm not sure if this will help. I own a 112L SS. This board goes up wind very well, but it won't do it by itself.

I think Iceman is right on the money (for my style anyway). This might be hard to explain in words, but I ride the fin as normal. Most of the force though harness, some through back foot, rotating board leeward with the back foot, and very little though front foot. As I am doing this, I am slightly rotating the board windward with my front foot. The front foot rotation pressure will be very small, but to course correct, I will do harder windward rotations (with front foot - lasting a second - as Iceman said -> carving) to course correct the board to point it up wind. I find that little front foot inputs don't upset the board too much.

Supersports are a great board and you should have no trouble getting upwind, I usually run my mast slightly forward in the track on my 112 Supersport for early planing.

The only advice I would give is to commit to the harness more and ease the pressure off your feet and the board will crank upwind.

Tommy. What is your strap positions and your mast position ?

You guys are great and have given me a lot of input!

More Details:

* My 7.5 and 8.4 both have cams and have deep pockets and lots of power on a beam reach. Could the need more outhaul for upwind efficiency?

* The rear footstraps are in the inside position and forward

* The Front Footstraps are in the inside position and slightly rear

* The spacing between the straps seems comfortable for my body type

* Originally I was sailing with the mast track more forward but the stance seemed awkward with the arms too forward and feet behind. I now have the mast base towards the rear of the short mast track.

Keep helping me dial this pumpkin seed in, I know it is a fast board, I just need to modify my settings and style to get upwind. Do I really have to go with and adjustable outhaul. Seems kinda raceguy nerdy to me!

Cheers,

TommyB ; )

Select to expand quote

TommyB70 said..
* The rear footstraps are in the inside position and forward

* The Front Footstraps are in the inside position and slightly rear

There's the problem. Put them outside

you don't need to run an adjustable outhaul. but that will just give you the best of both worlds for all points of sail.

just rig your sail with more outhaul. go out sailing as you do normally. then come in and adjust your outhaul a couple of cm's then try again. repeat again until you get feel for what setting do what. there is a difference to how you set your sail for gps sailing compared to race courses.

you will feel it when you get the right setting as your sail will feel slippery going upwind. ie. the sail feels like it wants to accelerate while heading high.

Select to expand quote

TommyB70 said..

You guys are great and have given me a lot of input!

More Details:

* My 7.5 and 8.4 both have cams and have deep pockets and lots of power on a beam reach. Could the need more outhaul for upwind efficiency?

* The rear footstraps are in the inside position and forward

* The Front Footstraps are in the inside position and slightly rear

* The spacing between the straps seems comfortable for my body type

* Originally I was sailing with the mast track more forward but the stance seemed awkward with the arms too forward and feet behind. I now have the mast base towards the rear of the short mast track.

Keep helping me dial this pumpkin seed in, I know it is a fast board, I just need to modify my settings and style to get upwind. Do I really have to go with and adjustable outhaul. Seems kinda raceguy nerdy to me!

Cheers,

TommyB ; )

what size fin? if you move your straps out and the fin is too small you'll just spinout.

also if your fin is too small you'll suffer going to wind. you want a fin with a nice broad tip.

just on banking the board. if anything lifting the windward rail slightly gives you more bite from the leeward rail. but the fastest upwind attitude is a flat board. moving the roll of the board around really only just adds drag and slows you down.

another thing, rotate your foot in the rear strap so your heal is closer to the nose of the board then your toes. ie. your foot is pointing at a line 45 deg to the centreline of the board.

Commit to harness, weight forward with shoulders rotated towards the nose.
Use the windward rail to prevent downwind slide.
Look in the direction you want to go.
Neutral to positive out haul will assist in upwind sailing at the cost of downwind speed.
Adjustable out hauls are great if you're speed sailing down wind and need to get upwind to the starting position efficiently.

Ive got the 118. Get your footstraps out wider. Will make a big difference. It will help you work off the rail and fin far better.

Awesome advice lads (and Lasses?). I will get this board dialed with your tips. I will put those straps in the outside rail position right now and wait for the next windy day.... we wait a lot here in central Canada.

Thank your lucky stars and Mother Nature every day you sail guys because some of us wind addicts live in places that freeze over for 5 months of the year and the two months of summer are dead calm. That leaves 5 months total of potential wind divided up between the spring and fall and still we wait for fronts to come through and wear rubber when we sail. Can you tell we haven't had wind for a while?!!

I know what you mean about a slippery sail when flattening out and sailing RAF sails with no cams up wind. My 7.5 and 8.4 have cams.
Should I reduce the batten tension and outhaul more to flatten the sail and reduce the fat luff pocket for upwind sailing?

Cheers,

TommyB
Ottawa, Canada

Good luck with wind and trying the new techniques. I sailed this afternoon on a 111l futura with a 6m RAF sail in 18 to 22kts. I used the sail manufacturers recommended downhall and outhall. The sail had good twist and was relatively flat. The board railed upwind without effort. In fact it was harder to bear away on a 3/4 reach. Get the sail set up right, use the right fin. get up on plane and use your leeward edge and you'll get upwind.

BTW, you live in a beautiful part of the world. I pent a week in Ontario in July visiting friends. Awesome place.

Last replies lads...

Got all the tips.
There is a contradiction with a couple of tips: Sailing the board flat for upwind gains vs using the windward rail to get grip and slight carves upwind.

Should I combine these techniques or just keep er flat?

I notice you aussies are really into GPS sailing. Hasn't caught on much here. I guess when we get wind we go no holds barred and don't want to frig around with gadgets. Us Cdn sailors make most of our skill & trick advancements when we get a week of steady wind on vacation in the Caribbean or at the Gorge, Or, USA.

Cheers,

TommyB
Ottawa, Canada

when you are planning flat is best. some people rail the board very marginally to gain more grip from the leeward rail but this is mainly used on bigger boards.

whether you rail the windward rail or the leeward rail depends on the board. wave and freestyle/freemove type boards have soft/tucked rails and more rocker than slalom boards so with those boards pushing down on the windward rail very very slightly helps you get to windward. with those boards you are usually carrying smaller fins so tend not to straighten your back leg as much.

slalom boards have sharper rails and less rocker so they tend to respond better to trying to get the leeward rail to add a bit extra grip. but again with a board with sharper rails it's best to keep the board flat and going as fast as possible. as soon as you add in any drag your gone. what you want is to ride the board off the fin and keep your back leg straight while keeping your body weight forward and the sail racked back.

Finally got some wind to try out all your tips with my 118L & 8.4m2 sail. The straps in the furthest outside position really helped get upwind as did reducing the batten tension and flattening the draft of the sail with more outhaul. It was very gusty, but I could see the difference. Steady wind to really lock into position and make those minor adjustments would be nice to experience. Unlike ocean wind, inland lake and river wind is gusty and full of holes. Ya take what your home location gives ya. Happy sailing Aussies.
TommyB ; )

We can get gusty conditions here in winter and it does make getting upwind harder..If I'm on the plane all the time no hassles but when you get a few gusts and then big lulls it makes it harder.

yeah lake sailing can be painful. have done a lot of it in the past. added to that the reduction in volume between the ocean and the lake and it means usually carrying slightly bigger gear.

when lake sailing I tend to prefer to rig for the lulls and hang on in the gusts. I do it the other way around sailing the bays and ocean.

of course it depends on the fetch the wind travels across. if the lake is big enough then the wind becomes less gusty. I tend to look at that with most wind directions. the bigger the fetch the better.

one thing I do regardless of whether i'm sailing on a lake or open water is that as soon as I've dropped off the plane I force the board as high to windward as possible. I make up as much ground as I can even though it means dredging.

then when a gust comes I bear off and pump. getting back up to speed I then start to bear up as the wind allows.