Hi All. Sailing today is reasonably choppy stuff my front foot was creeping back. Not normally a problem but today had a few close calls with my foot coming out and off the deck momentarily in the harsher chop. Is this normal? Incorrect footstrap placement, technique, etc? Board is a Futura101 with front straps set fully outboard and back. Rear strap fully outboard and centre holes.

Were you mega powered up with a pretty lifty fin that you can really push hard against? If so that may be it.... just all back foot, and not much front foot pressure at all

only thing i got is . have ya straps loose enough so only ya toes stick thru?

perhaps try dropping you boom a a little bit. it will take some weight off your back foot and put it on your front foot

Yep it does happen, but it means set up is wrong, it's been dealt with before, you could try a search, this old brain forgets all the solutions.
As well as Benders boom height I think moving the mast back was another option?

Select to expand quote

Mark _australia said...

Were you mega powered up with a pretty lifty fin that you can really push hard against? If so that may be it.... just all back foot, and not much front foot pressure at all

Cheers everyone! Silly of me not to think of it. I'm fairly certain Mark may be spot on. Fairly powered up in parts especially where a good deal of the chop was. Was using a fin I have only just purchased, a C3 venom 38cm. I didn't think I was overly hard on the back foot but it may have been the case. My boom may have been a little high for the conditions also. Thanks again. A bit to play with now next time it happens (that was the first time I've experienced it)

I have this problem particularly with my new board (JP FSW). I love the board for most things, but it seems that the footstraps are quite wide for me. I run the back strap forward and front strap back which helps alot, but may not be ideal for speed in some conditions.

I do find that the problem goes away totally if I drop the boom alot and move the mast base forward alot. This then pulls me onto the front foot and no problems. However I think it is also pushes the rocker into the chop and slows the board down, but speed is not the main thing in rough conditions, so prefer control even if the ride is a bit rough.

I also think a smaller fin helps... you tend to have to unweight the back foot to avoid spinout, and are not using the rear foot as much to keep the board flat as big fins will require. However then you have the issue of spinout in chop with small fins getting air??!! I think tuning rig for the conditions is the best solution.

-- Adrian

Cheers Adrian. I run my boom about 2-3 fingers off the tail of my board which from what I have read & hear is pretty standard now on the average sized modern board. I might try and lower a fraction next time I'm out in similar conditions or have the same problem. As my main goal normally when on the Futura is to go as fast as possible even in rough chop I'm not sure moving the base forward is the best solution but will give it a try if all else fails. One thing I did notice with the newer fin yesterday was a lot less spin out and more control. Also, much easier to "correct" spinout at speed than my other fins. C3 recommend an extra few cm's than normal on the Venoms which seems to work but I'm also now having this issue with my front foot. I may try and bring my rear foot straps forward before anything else.

Hey Ej,
Was it more in the earlier session (ie when the tide was still coming in) that you noticed it?
I felt the same altho' my issue was also the introduction of some new booties.

It might be a bit out there, and it certainly has no merit to it but I suspect we might have also had some weird sub surface currents where the water on the surface is moving in a different direction to water below the surface. Thats why we had those bizarre swells that weren't following the direction of the wind or the tide.
A couple of times I found the board wanting to change direction even on the plane and locked down and although I'd normally write them off as a result of my poor sailing skills, the force with which the board would get pulled around was not like the normal wave/ tide action..
Subsequently I found my front foot slipped out a few times but not when I expected it too...

The harness lines could also be slightly wrong which would throw off your weight distribution a lot. If it's smooth you can get away with not having the harness lines set up quite right, but the set up will feel horrible as soon as you have a bit of chop to deal with. I think that the general consensus is that if you have rigged your sail to deal with higher wind then the harness line's need to come forward slightly to deal with the extra outhaul.

Select to expand quote

drift said...

Hey Ej,
Was it more in the earlier session (ie when the tide was still coming in) that you noticed it?
I felt the same altho' my issue was also the introduction of some new booties.

It might be a bit out there, and it certainly has no merit to it but I suspect we might have also had some weird sub surface currents where the water on the surface is moving in a different direction to water below the surface. Thats why we had those bizarre swells that weren't following the direction of the wind or the tide.
A couple of times I found the board wanting to change direction even on the plane and locked down and although I'd normally write them off as a result of my poor sailing skills, the force with which the board would get pulled around was not like the normal wave/ tide action..
Subsequently I found my front foot slipped out a few times but not when I expected it too...

If speed is the goal, you want to avoid doing things that push the rocker into the chop, and shorter boom and base forward will do that. Having said that, I have previously found more speed after doing this as in the chop, having control to be able to sheeting harder and longer will get more speed. But I am no speed demon, so maybe talk to the guys on the GPS forum.

I find on my board that I would like the front strap a little further back for my larger sails (6.0+) and my body size. I find with larger sails with the sail raked back that the centre of effort of the sail gets too backfooted. I am fine with smaller sails (5.0). With larger sails, I am fine when I am pointing off the wind alot and big gusts pull me onto the front foot, but when reaching in moderate power, it just feels a bit big for my board. My board has a fairly narrow tail also compared to slalom/speed boards, so unless powered up, you can't really get too much weight onto the back foot.

-- Adrian

Evan, Try the setup sent the other day via email, this was from the forum post below. I had the same problem with my iSonic 76. I still have not tried it on the 76 yet.

www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=63199

Hi ejmack,

Is this the first session you have used the new venom or just the most powered up you have had it to date?

Certainly recommend doing all the tuning tips as a reality check on your set-up, but if this is the first time you've really noticed the front foot issue I'd try out benders suggestion of dropping the boom slightly first before getting too experimental with it.

I have only recently got my newish venom fin out in overpowered conditions. Given the flex at the tip of the venom I found it requires a bit of an adjustment in riding powered up. It doesn't feel like it is super lifty in the gusts as it twists off, but there is still a lot of fin at work given the extra cms. I noticed that I was riding the back foot a bit harder than usual, although I didn't get to the stage of having my front foot slip out. I ended up with my boom 2cm lower than I'd used it previously with that sail. I also brought the mast track slightly back and ended up a bit more upright on the board (kind of "Cribb overpowered crouch" style) as a result, although with boom lower it felt like I had a better balance between front and back foot and the mast foot.

Did a bit more searching on the various forums which I should have done in the first place as suggested. Lot of stuff on the subject. Too much really. I'm going to start with the straps and go from there as outlined in WindRiders reply. Maybe drop the boom a very small amount.

underfinned - actually, it's not the first time I have tried the 38cm Venom. Once before but the water wasn't as choppy nor was I as powered up as the other day. I don't recall there being a problem with my front foot. Cheers for the suggestions/advice.

WindRider - yep, I meant to go through that setup when you sent me that a week back. Should have but didn't think I'd be on the water again so quickly. Will adjust over the weekend.

vosadrian - thanks for the suggestions etc. Looking at the distance between the front and back straps I'll probably do as you do and move the rear forward and leave the front in the back most position on the rail.

knigit - cheers. I usually feel quite comfy in the harness itself. Adjusting as I adjust outhaul. I like it to feel fairly balanced.

Drift - yeah, first part of the day. The section between the middle buoy and Venus bay side. Pretty full on chop. Wind was also a lot stronger in that section. I didn't notice any weird sub surface current or changes in board direction. Not to say it wasn't there and contributing though. One of the best session I've had in a while that's for sure!

I think the key is getting the foot straps width the same as your shoulders. Boom height for 6.5m I tend to go high to get more power. If I'm over powered I drop my ellbows down, bend my arms and pushing my bum out as far as posisble.
Check out Windsurf Oct 2009 edition about stance.

Let me know how you go. Hopefully we will be sailing Sunday and we can compare notes and setups of our Futuras.

Usually I run my boom so that it lies on the tail for waterstarts but lately I've been running it a bit higher.

I got this problem yesterday when well powered up with a small sail and relatively large fin, and high boom.

Remember that masttrack position and boom height sort of work together... ie. Higher boom = somewhat moving track back. Try to try out one variable at a time, but lowering your boom 2-3cm should do it.

Select to expand quote

WindRider said...

Evan, Try the setup sent the other day via email, this was from the forum post below. I had the same problem with my iSonic 76. I still have not tried it on the 76 yet.

www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=63199

I just tested out what was said about putting your elbow in the middle of the back strap & then the front one should be at middle finger length or something..no way .. my arm is at least a hands length too short...+ you cant adjust them any closer..