Sorry if this topic has been raised before and I've missed it, but im struggling with front foot issues since going to full slalom gear and I'm looking for a way to fix it because it's killing my love of sailing.

The basic issue is that my front foot gets bumped out of the footstrap at high speed when sailing across the wind. I've had some bad crashes because my front foot gets so light it gets ripped out and I hit the water.

Ive done plenty of research on the Internet looking for a cure for this problem. I've also spoken to the sail designer and tester for Neil Pryde sails (who really made a big effort to help I must say), Guy Cribb (who suggested some things), friends, other racers etc but so far have had no success. The problem is I can't get all the speed out of my gear coz I can't stay in the straps. I'm only 71 kilos, so I'm not heavy, but there are plenty of other riders of similar weight who have no issues.

I've tried:

Keeping my stance and hips as square as possible,
softer/smaller fins
Boom lower
Harness lines in different positions
Foot straps closer together/farther apart
Mast step forward
Downhaul on and off.

On the weekend i detuned my sail by releasing the downhaul 2 cm off from max which had the sail well below minimum spec, and it felt a little better but the sail was not efficient and did not accelerate how it should.

I really like my gear and have spent good money on it, so I'd like to get it sorted, hence my post. It's sailable as is, but not as enjoyable as it could be so if anyone has had the same issue and found a way to sort it I'd be keen to hear from them. Thanks in advance for any real help.

Cheers. :)

You should probably provide details of board sail and fin you are using when this happens, and also wind and sea state.

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Shifu said..
You should probably provide details of board sail and fin you are using when this happens, and also wind and sea state.

Happens on all my boards and with all my full race sails. Obviously the rougher the water the more problems I have.

The gear im using are as follows:

JP Slalom Pro 133 litre (85 wide)
JP Slalom Pro 113 Litre (71 wide)
Tabou Rocket 105 Litre 63 wide)

Neil Pryde 8.6m Evo 4
Neil Pryde 7.8m Evo 7
Neil Pryde 7.0m Evo 10
Neil Pryde 6.4m Evo 4

The Tricktionary 3 has a very good section on slalom tuning that might help. A couple of the best slalom sailors in the world explain the basics, and give specific instructions on what to do to achieve specific goals like more pressure on the front foot.

If you are sailing with more experienced slalom sailors, see if you can sail the gear of a sailor with similar weight and height to see what things should feel like. A few kg or cm up or down don't matter. If you sail with someone good and really nice, maybe they can tune your gear as they would sail it. If that still feels wrong to you, it's probably your technique that needs to improve.

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Maddlad said..
The problem is I can't get all the speed out of my gear coz I can't stay in the straps.

I'd sub-divide this into two separate things, unless you're alway sailing on perfectly flat water with steady wind. The first goal is to get comfortable on the slalom gear. You'll be about 3-5 knots slower than the really good guys, but you can still have plenty of fun. The next goal is to get faster. Getting "all the speed out of your gear" is a pretty lofty goal that may quite a while to accomplish.

Madlad, come to Cervantes on Fri 4th Jan for some racing tips and Patrik D will sort it out pretty quickly

I've had this a long time ago and it really cramps your style!
So long ago I forget what fixed it.
But I think it's because the centre of effort of the sail is further forward than your centre of gravity. So you either have to move your centre of gravity forward or the sail's back.

Lowering the boom should rake the sail back more, as should moving mast track forward. But you could try moving the mast track back, and the boom low.

I have this too.
I just twist my front foot sideways a bit to get it tighter in the strap. Or push down with the heel and lift the toes to get more grip. I actually sail with my straps pretty loose on my feet so I have learned to do this anyhow.

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Maddlad said..

Shifu said..
You should probably provide details of board sail and fin you are using when this happens, and also wind and sea state.

Happens on all my boards and with all my full race sails. Obviously the rougher the water the more problems I have.

The gear im using are as follows:

JP Slalom Pro 133 litre (85 wide)
JP Slalom Pro 113 Litre (71 wide)
Tabou Rocket 105 Litre 63 wide)

Neil Pryde 8.6m Evo 4
Neil Pryde 7.8m Evo 7
Neil Pryde 7.0m Evo 10
Neil Pryde 6.4m Evo 4

You're using nearly the same setup as I am. Although I'm a bit larger and heavier than you are at 193 and about 100 kg. I've had the same issue with the JP 71 and NP Evo's 7.0 and 7.8 the first couple of times out.

Moving the mastbase forward did help a little bit but it also makes the board too sticky. The mastbase should be just behind the center of the mast track. I use the NP MXT base and it covers the square at the back of the track about 1/4 to 1/3 depending on conditions. 1/3 for light to medium conditions 1/4 for fully powered/ overpowered. More to the back gives tailwalks, more to the front and the board isn't loose enough. Strap positioning is also key with the JP's. I moved the front straps all the way back and the back straps in the second to last hole.

The 71 is quite fin critical. I started with a Z SF 39S. Lightwind and 7.8 or 8.6 spot-on. If the wind picks up not the right choice. Going smaller did help a lot. Midwind conditions I now use a iFins Fightclub 38. In overpowered conditions I use a Z SLM 36 S-. Both fins give just the right amount of lift and control to keep the board balanced. Going bigger/ stiffer is going to give control and tailwalk problems. In general I would say don't go over 38 cm fin wise and not to stiff. The JP's like fins with a bit of rake.

Sail wise, the Evo's are mostly trimmed with the outhaul. The specs on the sail for the downhaul are normally spot-on with NP. Measure the length of your masts as these can vary. Compensate the mast length with your extension/ rope length left. For powered up, overpowered you can pull the Evo's block to block. The loose leach should just reach the batten above the crossbatten. In lightwind ease the downhaul max 5 mm. Any more and the sail will give too much forward pull resulting in having control problems specially with your front foot. I also found out that boomheight with the JP71 affects the front foot a lot. Compared to my old JP VII 68 I sail the boom at least 2 to 3 cm lower.

The harnesslines and outhaul go hand in hand. My base setting for the outhaul is that the sail is just free of the boom. I then set the harness lines in a neutral position. Meaning that I have the same pull on both my hands which makes it possible to sail fully on the harness. Lines length wise between 28 inch for lightwind to midwind (more upright) and 30 to 32 inch for overpowered. Crosswind I keep the neutral position. Downwind I give a little less outhaul which makes the sail a bit baggier and gives a little pull on the rear hand.

Lower boom, mast base back.

And be sure your fin is big enough but correct for your weight and windspeed/sail size.

Thanks for all the tips guys, particularly those who have gone into plenty of detail.

To answer those wwho mentioned boom and mast track, I have had the boom so far down the sail it was stretching the bottom of the cutout and although it helped, I was then bouncing off the water coz I was so low (even in a seat harness) so that was dangerous too. I've also tried moving the mast track forward but even with it at the very front of the track it still only barely helped and made the board slow.

As far as fins go I use a 37 Z Fin SLM- as recommended by Arnon Dagan in the 71 wide and a 44 Lockwood 2 carbon in the 85 wide. If I'm using a weedy I use a 38 Vector Slalom weed in both boards.

Ive had other top sailors over here test my gear and it feels balanced to them, though they were all at least ten kilos heavier than me. It's a little frustrating when you get told your gear is well tuned but it doesn't work for you haha.

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LeeD said..
And be sure your fin is big enough but correct for your weight and windspeed/sail size.

May I ask how to know if I have the correct fin etc Lee? Is there a formula, matrix or sizing chart I can check that mentions weight vs windspeed & sail size?

Cheers. :)

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lefthanders said..
Madlad, come to Cervantes on Fri 4th Jan for some racing tips and Patrik D will sort it out pretty quickly

I would love to but I have travel issues which I won't go into on here, but Cervantes is a bit far for me. Thank you for your input though. :)

Height can be a big factor also.

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Maddlad said..
Ive had other top sailors over here test my gear and it feels balanced to them, though they were all at least ten kilos heavier than me. It's a little frustrating when you get told your gear is well tuned but it doesn't work for you haha.

If the gear is well trimmed for heavier sailors, try a smaller fin. Check TheTank's post - he is using a 36 cm fin when overpowered on the 71, and he is 30 kg heavier than you are. You are balancing forces, and with 1/3 less weight, you cannot control the same size fin. I'm often sailing the same slalom gear as my wife, who is also 30 kg lighter than I am. It's very rare that that we like the same fin with the same board and sail, she usually prefers significantly smaller (shorter and/or less surface area) fins.

Given that you have had somewhat good responses so far and none seem to help... My guess is that your gear is too big for you - I am about the same weight, and have the same problem on big gear.

In particular, big gear has a wide-stance between front and back straps.... so you could try using the most-narrow positions. And your 105L for a small board, is way too big for a 6.4m

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mathew said..
Given that you have had somewhat good responses so far and none seem to help... My guess is that your gear is too big for you - I am about the same weight, and have the same problem on big gear.

In particular, big gear has a wide-stance between front and back straps.... so you could try using the most-narrow positions. And your 105L for a small board, is way too big for a 6.4m

The gear being too big is a good point. The 133/8.6 combo is what the big (90+ kg) guys use in PWA competition in 10-12 knots. At 70 kg, the 71 cm slalom board with the 7.8 should get you going in 12 knots. Above ~18 knots, a 90 l board should be big enough and a better match for the 6.4.

Maddlad,

I think it's time for some pics. Snap a few pics of your board in different angles so we can see what you've got and what your footstrap placement looks like. What would be really cool, if you could also lay your board down on some carpet or grass, have a chair next to your board, sit in the chair and slide your feet in the straps and take a pic. Then we can see your stance in action.

One thing I've done with my board that I just posted in the Starship post was I pivot the rear part of front straps outward a little to square off my stance. Works like a charm. To do that, I just move the rear side of the front straps back an extra hole, making the strap pivot outward some. It might be easier on your feet and ankles, squaring up your stance. Here's a pic of what it looks like. Note, the straps are not in as much of an angle now.

Cheers for all the input guys. :)

I really only use the bigger board and gear on light days for racing now, as i foil when it's under 15 knots. Ironically I have no lightness of front foot when using my same racing sails on my foils.

I did try changing fins but maybe i didnt go small enough, however I do feel like I'm fairly back foot heavy, coz I like to drive off the fin and was prone to spin out at stages. I do shift my harness lines back to correct any slides I get from the fin and that usually stops it these days, but I'm not sure how I'd go with a smaller fin. It's worth a try.

Thanks again. :)

I had this last sail..I can't remember what I did differently..
It seems to mainly lightweight having the issue??

Not sure if this helps, but I got a new board and had the same problem. I tried all of the usual things - adjusting boom height, moving mast base and footstraps around etc. Nothing helped and the board felt dangerous, which makes you slow. To be honest I really didn't want to move my boom or change mast positions etc as they had always felt comfortable that way before.

Ultimately I fixed it completely by selling that board (Manta 59) and getting different one. Now I can put my boom nice and high, where I like it, and there is no problem.

So my suggestion (and it is an expensive one - sorry) is to try different boards.

Hi Maddlad

I'm happy to jump onto you gear again to test it out, and in the same time you can try my setup ( as I don't have this problem), and you can see if you feel the same,,

From what I read one thing is for sure.
Using the slalom weed fins will increase this feeling 'of loosing the front foot'. You just can't avoid it to some extend, with any type weed fins.
So only use them if you really need too.

If you use too big a rig on a too small board, then you can also get this problem (as you are light), and need to lean a lot more out and back, to control the sail, but this will also in the same time mean more back foot pressure and less grip / pressure on the front foot. The opposite combo of a smaller sail and bigger board can work good (as you will be more 'above'the board to control it with the smaller rig), and more front foot pressure.

For the pointer fins: I would think to go slightly bigger fin (not smaller / or softer). Look it is a big topic on the fins itself.
But if you use to small fin, then you have less lift and then need to rake / move the sail a bit further back to get the lift, and you body position is then again on the back foot pressure, and loosing the front strap.

In the end it is a combination of everything.

Personally I had the biggest gain with the right fin choice + rig trimming.

Try moving your harness lines back on the boom a little, also move your body weight forward (may need to make lines longer). This will allow you to move the rig forward and increase mfp.

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AUS1111 said..
Not sure if this helps, but I got a new board and had the same problem. I tried all of the usual things - adjusting boom height, moving mast base and footstraps around etc. Nothing helped and the board felt dangerous, which makes you slow. To be honest I really didn't want to move my boom or change mast positions etc as they had always felt comfortable that way before.

Ultimately I fixed it completely by selling that board (Manta 59) and getting different one. Now I can put my boom nice and high, where I like it, and there is no problem.

So my suggestion (and it is an expensive one - sorry) is to try different boards.

Yeah that's what I'm worried about. I'm hoping it doesn't come to that coz I've put a lot of money into my boards and I love them. I just need to work out how to use them at their best.

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Sail Repair WA said..
Hi Maddlad

I'm happy to jump onto you gear again to test it out, and in the same time you can try my setup ( as I don't have this problem), and you can see if you feel the same,,

From what I read one thing is for sure.
Using the slalom weed fins will increase this feeling 'of loosing the front foot'. You just can't avoid it to some extend, with any type weed fins.
So only use them if you really need too.

If you use too big a rig on a too small board, then you can also get this problem (as you are light), and need to lean a lot more out and back, to control the sail, but this will also in the same time mean more back foot pressure and less grip / pressure on the front foot. The opposite combo of a smaller sail and bigger board can work good (as you will be more 'above'the board to control it with the smaller rig), and more front foot pressure.

For the pointer fins: I would think to go slightly bigger fin (not smaller / or softer). Look it is a big topic on the fins itself.
But if you use to small fin, then you have less lift and then need to rake / move the sail a bit further back to get the lift, and you body position is then again on the back foot pressure, and loosing the front strap.

In the end it is a combination of everything.

Personally I had the biggest gain with the right fin choice + rig trimming.

Thanks Jesp, I always appreciate your help. I'll take you up on that offer when my stitches come out and I'm back on the water. Cheers. :)

another thing to try is putting your harness lines forward a bit - just try 3 cm at a time - often this can bring your mass forward and into the front straps. I have tried a lot of set ups where , to my opinion, the harness lines were too far back and this causes all sorts of issues. Its quite common.

Generally speaking its better to be slightly forward of neutral than back. Although i really like neutral 0 where you can sail hands off the boom for 100m or more at full pace with confidence.

Another issue is many riders ride their straps too tight - also manufacturers vary in how strap dimensions apply to the board (both screw spacing and the straps themselves - i have tried some straps that felt brilliant where the straps screw spacing was tighter and i was getting a ton of grip and comfort from having grip on the sides of my feet.

Even strap positions on the board makes a ton of difference and varies wildly from 1 moanufacturer to another

I had a lindsay park board many a year ago that went from border line unsailable (couldnt gybe, crashing all over the place) to a race winner and pace setter - I had to put in another set of strap screws about 12 cm forward and the board achieved magic trim and gybed like an absolute demon)

These days on my Windtech Magic Bullets i find the forward settings are giving me a ton of control - control is where the speed is - i hear a lot about people setting straps back for less drag and more speed - but i dont buy into that - in THEORY its faster

but in the real world where speed happens through being able to get a ton of sail power into the board and fin - trim and control wins over theoretical drag.

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MagicRide said..

That is wave board strap setup. It is just WRONG for Slalom board type sailing.

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Reflex Films said..
another thing to try is putting your harness lines forward a bit - just try 3 cm at a time - often this can bring your mass forward and into the front straps. I have tried a lot of set ups where , to my opinion, the harness lines were too far back and this causes all sorts of issues. Its quite common.

Generally speaking its better to be slightly forward of neutral than back. Although i really like neutral 0 where you can sail hands off the boom for 100m or more at full pace with confidence.

Another issue is many riders ride their straps too tight - also manufacturers vary in how strap dimensions apply to the board (both screw spacing and the straps themselves - i have tried some straps that felt brilliant where the straps screw spacing was tighter and i was getting a ton of grip and comfort from having grip on the sides of my feet.

Even strap positions on the board makes a ton of difference and varies wildly from 1 moanufacturer to another

I had a lindsay park board many a year ago that went from border line unsailable (couldnt gybe, crashing all over the place) to a race winner and pace setter - I had to put in another set of strap screws about 12 cm forward and the board achieved magic trim and gybed like an absolute demon)

These days on my Windtech Magic Bullets i find the forward settings are giving me a ton of control - control is where the speed is - i hear a lot about people setting straps back for less drag and more speed - but i dont buy into that - in THEORY its faster

but in the real world where speed happens through being able to get a ton of sail power into the board and fin - trim and control wins over theoretical drag.

Thanks for your input Reflex. I also thought that moving the lines forward might help but when I tried it it just felt uncomfortable and the sail balance didn't feel right.
I've tried bringing the straps in on the sides which helps a little, but it makes them so tight it's hard to get them in and out which is slow in racing and being so tight is dangerous in crashes. I agree on comfort equaling speed and that's exactly what I'm looking for. :)

I had that problem recently on a freestyle/wave board.
When I later derigged I found that the mast foot had slipped all the way forward.
It happened a couple of times.
Since then I have paid more attention to tightening it in place and the problem disappeared.
I guess that with the mast foot too far forward I was putting more pressure on my back foot and the front foot was correspondingly lighter.
I too am a lightweight.

I feel too small a fin makes me shift and cramp back over the back foot. I then over sheet and the bottom of the sail irritates my toes. A slightly larger fin should open the foot to leeward of the sail and take your pressure off the back foot and further forward. A slight shift forward of the harness line may also help. (Ideas others have said)