Hello Seabreezers!

About me: I'm a young guy in my 20's and weigh a little over 60kg from europe.
I come from a pure flat water background. never sailed in breaking waves before.

However, my best friend has been surfing (without sail) for a couple years now and last year we went on a trip to northern France together and I tried that out. But I didn't really like sitting in the water too much.
So I now have aspirations to progress into wave sailing so we can do more surf trips together

My skill level is: waterstart, gybe, tack, chop hops, and I managed to land a vulcan once (I can get the rotation but I suck at backwards sliding lol)
and my board is a 102l freestyle board from 2009.

For this reason I'm looking to upgrade my ride. specifically looking at freewave boards because I can only fit 1 board into my car and I still want to go on flatwater. The question now is: which board and what size??
I think the quintessential FSW is the JP. But they don't list any specifics on their construction and I'm not spending $2k if I don't know what I'm getting.

So this leads me to Goya One and Quatro Power. Either 95L or 105L.Has anyone ridden both and can compare them? Also I'm torn between sizes. I'm afraid that the smaller boards might not posess enough planing power with my 7.0 in european flat water conditions but I also fear that the bigger volume might hinder the progression into waves.

I'd be looking at a 75L board at your weight, maybe 80L if it's going to be really light weather.

Although it's a wave board the Simmer Quantum I have does just fine for blasting if you upside the central fin and run smallish thrusters. It also rides pretty small for the volume. I use one as a higher wind board but I'm also 90kg on an 85L board in cross-on windswell.

Sail size range? 95-105 is great for small round waves side on and 15 knots. Not so extreme but it'll get you planing with a 5.7. Anything around 4.x and 18 knot+ I'd look at 75L for your size for sure!

The thing some freewaves can be stiff even in a trifin. JPs are one of the loosest but you may benefit from going directly to a real world wave type of board. Nearly always preferred those to freewaves. Much easier tuning of the turning angle.

Quintessential,exists in blonds, candy bars, and Scotch, windsurf boards , some tick more boxes than others.
to name one brand is closed minded.
I get the drift of your wants, the range of sails with the freestyle
102l, my thinking is 6.0- 5.0, maybe stretch 6.5-5.0. It would be exceeding helpful to know the intended sail range or wind range.
Since you do mention a 7.0, seems the maximum large end ,of sails , actually too large for my taste , 115 being better suited, your projected size 95-105 liters would be close.
any Quatro , except Freeride , freestyle , is going to be wave oriented, history. You are not going to find IMO a board that excels in waves and flat water. The FSW grouping , all rounder will be the look to group, depending on actual priorities .
the construction comment you make, because it's stated we use Carbon SGlass Kevlar , in construction , says little to where and how much, My take is hold not much truck with the brand specs. Unless the writting on the Board says Witchcraft.

the suggestion of 75-80 liters is far too small.

Both boards you mention are Maui designed. the Goya One, has had a long distinguished run.
i would not limit my potential buying to those 2. Not while Fanatic, Starboard, Exocet, JP last but not least Witchcraft are available near me.
suggest the German SURF magazine as a resource or the French mag, Planche, I think it's name.

Thanks for the suggestions so far.I've thought about smaller sizes, too and although I like the thought of regularly going out in nice waves, it's not always donna happen if I'm honest. Expanding on that, it's probably a dumb move to go out in 20kts with head-high waves given my lack of experience on that.
Therefore a proper <80L waveboard seems like a steep investment.

To get more specific: My sail range is 4.7 ; 5.3 ; 6.2 ; 7.0 and more often than not I'm limited by too little wind rather than too much wind.
Lets say 14kts should be doable. I have a 36cm freeride fin as well to get a somewhat decent trim with the bigger sails.
Which means my priorites are early planing+float and turnability. I don't really care much about top speed and drag racing.
The board is going to be used 50% on flat and 50% in weaker/smaller waves until I get comfortable in the surf

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forceten said..
Both boards you mention are Maui designed. the Goya One, has had a long distinguished run.
i would not limit my potential buying to those 2. Not while Fanatic, Starboard, Exocet, JP last but not least Witchcraft are available near me.
suggest the German SURF magazine as a resource or the French mag, Planche, I think it's name.

I actually have the german SURF right here and their conclusions differ quite a bit from the british test in quite some cases.
However they both say that JP and RRD are more freeridey whereas Fanatic, Goya, Quatro and Severne are more wave orientated. Starboard and Tabou somewhere in the middle.
There is a Quatro on 20% off at a shop here but it's hard to find any info on that and unfortunately the magazine tests differ the most for this board.
Another question would be: Is there actually a noticeable difference in planing power between an actual wave board and a FSW in that size?

4.7-5.5
5.5-7.0

those ranges dictate 2 boards. Small a wave board that leans towards a FSW, or FSW towards wave. Larger board a FSW.the 36cm fin statement has me confused, is your intend to use this as a single fin, like on the Goya or Quatro you mention.?

my bad, I should have mentioned Tabou as a potential.


FOR THIS Another question would be: Is there actually a noticeable difference in planing power between an actual wave board and a FSW in that size?
specific boards could be answered, better, given your question the answer would be yes, the FSW would.
where would you purchase said board ? And where sail, I recall northern France only?
I was going with 2 boards to cover your sails range, but remembered something about 1 board only in the car.

magazine tests are a useful guide. I would want some other resources , however tests sort of get rated by the personality of those involved. So opinions vary.


which Quatro has the 20% off?

If you already have the 102 litre freestyle board then keep that for the bigger rigs and flat water sessions.

My recommendation for the Freewave would be a Severne Dyno 85.
85 litres still gives you +20litres float over your 60kgs weight.

Any older JP FSW or Starboard Kode FSW of about the same litreage should also fit the bill.

Yes a FSW will plane earlier than the waveboard from the same company. Noticable, yes.
Your just starting out in waves get a second hand FSW about 80 litres The JP's Ive tried are reasonably wave orientated, so id get a multi finnned jp and put smaller fins in than original fins.

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forceten said..
4.7-5.5
5.5-7.0

those ranges dictate 2 boards. Small a wave board that leans towards a FSW, or FSW towards wave. Larger board a FSW.the 36cm fin statement has me confused, is your intend to use this as a single fin, like on the Goya or Quatro you mention.?

I see you understand my "dilemma" with the car haha Yea I would use the bard as a singlefin on flatwater with my bigger sails, if the option presents itself. It makes a pretty big difference with my current board at least

The shop is in germany and the board on sale are all current quatro boards. The 2018 wave stuff is even more discounted

Locations are northern france for the wave stuff. However my other common trip destinations include Netherlands and northern Germany (Northsee, Ijselmeer, Brouwersdam, Ouddorp etc.) southern France, and sometimes Podersdorf in Austria

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forceten said..

magazine tests are a useful guide. I would want some other resources , however tests sort of get rated by the personality of those involved. So opinions vary.

Exactly. Thats why I asked if somebody has ridden said boards.

@Basher
I ABSOLUTELY agree that a 2 board solution would be so much better but there's no use if I can't transport them during a one-week trip :/
Hence I'm trying to figure out the best compromise which is harder than i thought

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Basher said..
If you already have the 102 litre freestyle board then keep that for the bigger rigs and flat water sessions.

My recommendation for the Freewave would be a Severne Dyno 85.
85 litres still gives you +20litres float over your 60kgs weight.

Any older JP FSW or Starboard Kode FSW of about the same litreage should also fit the bill.

If 2 boards were the option, it seems not , but then,
I agree could be a good option 85liters.
iam not in tune with the offerings that are newer, IAm happy with my stuff, I go 83/88/93/105 for the range we are looking at.
i reckon that a board option , if you had 2 boards, then only take the one that's likely to be used could work. Not so for me, 2or 3 I could live with if I went local instead of
i drive USA 2000 miles , I have a van that takes 7 boards , I don't like to do without.
im a spoiled brat.

I have a Quattro Power 95 (2018) and Goya One's 85 (2017) and 104 (2013) -- and for your reference I'm 86kgs.

I would describe the Power as a user friendly wave board, it just loves to turn on swells. Its quite wide and it feels larger than the quoted volume (I can up-haul this board relatively easily). I would use this with sails from 4.2 to 5.9...although I mainly use a 5m. Downside of the Power is that it feels a bit boring in very flat water. Its feels "smooth" and sticks to the water which is great in waves or heavy chop but not so good if you are trying to get pop for jumps on flat water etc.

For the Goya One, I'll base my response on the 85 (2017) version as its the newer model. This is also a very easy to sail board, it has a 'crisp' feeling and feels faster than the Power....so it is a bit more exiting on flat water. However, it does require more concentration to sail in choppy conditions. Unlike the Power the Goya 85 is narrow so it feels smaller than quoted volume (although I'm not sure this applies to other sizes or for all years). I mainly use this board with a 4.2 & 4.7, I would use a 5.0 on this board but I personally feel that the 5.3 was too big on this board.

As you can see, I'm an advocate for more boards rather than one board option. Even though I have 3 boards, I never take more than 2 boards to the beach and often I only take the one board. So I would also recommend keeping you older board for flat water & larger sail sizes and going for a 2nd board.

However, if you had to go for a single freewave board option and considering your sail sizes and primarily flat water sailing conditions, then Im not sure the Goya One or Quatro Power are really the best options. Perhaps you should consider a freewave board that is more "free ride" than wave? I'm not sure what the current models are like but many people here loved the older Tabou 3s boards?

At least you're going from freestyle to FSW.
Keep your board, buy a USED 85 liter FSW.
Use a car top rack.

Silberpfeil, I agree with Basher. I think either an 85L Dyno or 95 Dyno would be a super board for you.
It's a little difficult as what you sound like you want is a board that will do everything, but it's your only board when you head away. So a 95 Dyno might do that better than an 85, but there's probably a lot more overlap with the 102 freestyle that you already have.
Iv'e got the 105 Dyno and love it. Does heaps of stuff really well. In light conditions, drop the tri configuration and put in a 34cm single and blast. In waves, it's great fun and really forgiving. Bigger vol helps get onto smaller waves in lighter conditions. Great for bump and jump as well. If you got the 85, I reckon it would still have lots of versatility. Maybe less so for light conditions.

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martyj4 said..
It's a little difficult as what you sound like you want is a board that will do everything, but it's your only board when you head away

Precisely!
You all make very good points! :) And thanks a lot Roy for sharing your experiences!

Considering all the 85L two-board suggestions it seems to me that 95 should be the a better fit over a 105 (size wise).I've done a bit of searching through different forums and the Dyno gets a lot of love and so does the 3s classic, so I'll definitely look into those. I've also found a turkish facebook site that stated that the Quatro is basically a fast waveboard. not suited for flat water whereas the goya has quite some freeride potential this year. Thus I reckon the Quatro is not the board regardless of the deal I can get on it

Of course if someone has ridden a variety of 2020 FSW boards, more experiences are always welcome

If in doubt between Surf & the UK's Windsurf magazine tests, go with Surf. There is also the French Windmag online. The UK Windsurf magazine rarely highlights poor performance in an area, they tend to write things like 'not the earliest to plane in the group' or 'others reach a higher speed', rather than say its slow to plane or its a slow board. I think they are improving though. Surf magazine give a small picture and a scale. Surf do seem more thorough in their testing as well. eg. I recently bought a 2014 Goya One 85l. Surf said its not so good for freeriding and I agree, its bloody slow. Maybe it feels slow as my usual boards, Exocet, are fast. But it does turn tightly very well and gets planing early given its size, and is what I want for waves only. To plane, I need to be in the straps as soon as possible, then it jumps onto the plane. I guess its very short flat area is under the straps and in front and behind those there is a lot of rocker, compared to my Exocets which have a longer planing flat, no tail rocker. So any wave orientated FSW will need a slightly different technique to a free ride orientated board to get planing.
The Exocet Cross is similar to the Tabou 3S Classic, planes early, quick but not so good for tight turns in waves. They have a significant update to it for 2020, so the previous version running from 2013-19 is quite heavily discounted and there are quite a few showing up secondhand (in France anyway).
I'm in the 2 board camp. Keep your freestyle board and get a wavy FSW.
Look at the forecast in detail first before you travel if you can only take 1 with you.
For 1 board only, dont get a wavy FSW, they are boring on flat water.

Because you can waterstart you can get away with lower volume boards. A freewave has lots of drive, passive drive, and more width than some wave models. Your are 60kg so a 75L board is actually quite friendly in 20 knots.

I went from 105 to 77 with 75kg with no issue and will always remember my first jibe on it, it was successful! Yes we fall more often on smaller boards but when it's windy not a problem.

95+ is really just for light winds at your size. Also most freewaves handle bigger sails just fine. So one can ride a 5.3 on a 75L with a 23-25cm fin.

If you like to freestyle and have fun on flatwater, keep a 92L/100L freestyle board. A freestyle board can surf in smaller surf..side-on etc.Then pick a small fsw or a fast waveboard for higher wind and smaller sails.

If you want a one board only, it will be a lot of compromise but you will save money. So now compute where the board will be mostly used. Too much rider buy newer boards that they will use in 10% of the time instead of investing in boards that they will sail 90% of the time.

I think you need to forget about the 7.0 unless you plan to get a Slalom/Freeride board, which does not seem the way you are headed. You are very light so a good quiver for you even with non expert skills would be an 85 liter FSW or fast waveboard AND a 90 liter FS board - get rid of the 105 - it's too big for you. Your sails can then max out at around 5.7 to plane in 12-15kts on the FS board with good pumping. Eventually you will probably drob to a 75ltr fast waveboard & an 85-90 ltr FS board - if you plan to continue FS.

... IMHO as a past lightweight who now tips the scales at a more moderate 77kg

I really appreciate all the input from u guys :)

@gorgesailor: I definitely see your point with the 7.0...even with my current board it's quite uncomfortable to sail. Although it should be noted that the Freestyle board has an EXTREMELY flat deck. no dome whatsoever. that combined with the lack of outboard footstrap options is actually what makes me want to move onto a different board regardless of my wave aspirations

I don't think I will get into power moves too much. All the moves that I might reach at some point don't require a dedicated board. I see plenty of people doing shakas and spocks on freewave shapes

Regarding the amount of boards in my quiver: I'm sure that I'll go with the 1-board solution. I recognize the compromises (hence the struggle to choose a good fit) but
- I don't have the money to afford 2 boards atm. and used wave kit is usually kinda beat up
- I'm scared that when I carry my board on the roof for 1000+km that stones will cause unnessesary damage. I actually have a background in racecar aerodynamics and composite manufacturing and stones will penetrate 2 layers of carbon backed with 2 layers of kevlar. boards are built significantly weaker
-I just want to enjoy the trips with friends or family and personally I find that less kit and luggage usually improves the experience

Anyways I get the vibe that my 95L freewave guess was not far off from what I'm looking for. As NordRoi said I just need to be real honest with myself about the conditions that the board will see and then pick the correct shape

In most of the ws world, you can find great used FSW's for around $500, less than the price of any new sail.

I don't find used wave kit to be in bad shape AT ALL. It's usually built a lot tougher than FS or especially Slalom gear.

Also there are bags made specifically to hold a board and full quiver on top of your car. I have one for use with rental vehicles and it's brilliant. Made by Unifiber.

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LeeD said..
In most of the ws world, you can find great used FSW's for around $500, less than the price of any new sail.

I don't know what world you live in or what your understanding of "great" is...but for 500 you get 7-10 year old boards with dings and scratches and repairs

I've been going through ebay for the last couple days and a recent board (2017 or newer) without repairs, without dents is around $1k usually.
..which is still half the price of a brand new board i guess...

either way my other points still stand....I'm not convinced by the 2 boards idea and i have my personal reasons for it....and whether 1 or 2 board quiver is the better choice is honestly a different topic.

What I was interested in is your opinion/recommendations on the best one-board-only solution

About volume, you want to go as small as possible, so 7.0 sail is the limiting factor. I am 63kg, can put a 6.5 on dyno 95 no problem, i guess it can handle 7.0 with a suitable fin. Less then 95lt wouldn't work well with 7.0 sail.
I think you should check width (especially rear), wide ones may be better to hold big sails. Must have outside strap positions.
I haven't riden them but tabou 3s classic and starboard kode maybe good, 3s being cheaper especially in Europe, olso more freeride feel for flat water. Dyno is olso good, worse with big sail flat water but better for waves probably. Kode is probably midpoint(?). Of those 3, 3s classic would make more sense since its single fin and you will use it mostly in lightwind flatwater as I understand.

The 3s classic is probably one of the best bets. There must be a reason why they brought that board back and can sustain such a big following!
There are new ones for around 1.3k available from 2016...which should be the same shape as the "classic", so really good bargain. slightly used ones are even cheaper

Then use ONE sail size.
Or ONE gear in your car.
Or sail ONE spot only.

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Silberpfeil said..
I really appreciate all the input from u guys :)

@gorgesailor: I definitely see your point with the 7.0...even with my current board it's quite uncomfortable to sail. Although it should be noted that the Freestyle board has an EXTREMELY flat deck. no dome whatsoever. that combined with the lack of outboard footstrap options is actually what makes me want to move onto a different board regardless of my wave aspirations

I don't think I will get into power moves too much. All the moves that I might reach at some point don't require a dedicated board. I see plenty of people doing shakas and spocks on freewave shapes

Regarding the amount of boards in my quiver: I'm sure that I'll go with the 1-board solution. I recognize the compromises (hence the struggle to choose a good fit) but
- I don't have the money to afford 2 boards atm. and used wave kit is usually kinda beat up
- I'm scared that when I carry my board on the roof for 1000+km that stones will cause unnessesary damage. I actually have a background in racecar aerodynamics and composite manufacturing and stones will penetrate 2 layers of carbon backed with 2 layers of kevlar. boards are built significantly weaker
-I just want to enjoy the trips with friends or family and personally I find that less kit and luggage usually improves the experience

Anyways I get the vibe that my 95L freewave guess was not far off from what I'm looking for. As NordRoi said I just need to be real honest with myself about the conditions that the board will see and then pick the correct shape

If you are convinced to go with 1 board then at your weight I would chose a 85ltr FSW with largest sail around 5.7. It won't plane as quick as the FS board but you should still be able to sail easily in 15kts or a little less. To me 95ltrs in a FSW is going to feel really big especially with sails smaller than around 5.0 in maneuvers & on a wave. Personally I would rather carry one less sail & an extra board to get max range.

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Oh leed






The world you live in, gas is 29 cents a gallon.
the sun and planets revolve around you.
No dispute a FSW can be had for $150, if you want one that's old enough that the name FSW wasn't invented.

www.windance.com/Used-Gear-Used-Windsurf-Boards/

Small choice on here compared to usual, in the size that may work,

Only 2 The Kode and Flywave, average price what $925.

The local swap meets will have options, price wise . To stay in any thing that didn't come over on the Mayflower , a $700 range is more realistic.

Those of you who insist on the OP having , INSIST ,on more than one board, any number of valid reasons exist that he she is restricted .

since when does leaving one sail behind make room for another board?

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forceten said..
Those of you who insist on the OP having , INSIST ,on more than one board, any number of valid reasons exist that he she is restricted .

since when does leaving one sail behind make room for another board?

If he is re-structuring his quiver it is something to think about. We are all giving our advice based on experience. He is 20 something yr old lightweight advanced intermediate. IMHO A 95ltr FSW is going to hold him back as an only board.

At 65 kg, any 85 liter FSW is a big floaty board good for 6.2 down. At 65 kg, it's super easy to uphaul 75 kg boards.
Only choice is lively vs stable, vs wavey vs quick and fast.
A 2005 JP FSW 84 would more than fits the meeds.