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Mark _australia said..
If it is well supported and not going to get proper wet, why not MDF?If you go to a large cabinetmakers and ask for "packing sheets" you will get 16 or 19mm MDF in 8x4ft for $10 each....... not the $60 plus you're going to pay....

Well .... because ... wheetbix. MDF absorbs moisture it in its nature and it never drys out, it swells, and any condensation, or drips, or spilled drink or what ever will cause it to swell. Vehicle manufacturers have always avoided it for these reasons in favour of Maisonite years ago to plastic now a days for door cards and van/truck liners. Mdf dust is toxic containing urea formaldehyde glue at a fibre level as opposed to at a chip or laminate (much higher ratio of glue) and its prone to a toxic mould infestation which becomes impossible to get rid of. Its not very strong especially when you screw/nail into the end grain, it does not glue all that well on the face so you end up needing a frame. Its hard to seal well especially the end grain and if you do seal it well it makes glueing it even less reliable. So If your going to frame out go get 4.5mm thin luan ply for $7.62 a sheet. Just my opinion (without blowing my trumpet 30 years experience working with timbers sheet materials and just about every exotic covering that's been put out there.) Even manufacturers of stereo speakers etc which were once all MDF have given it away as too nasty and cheep (as opposed to inexpensive).

Well I did say if its not going to get properly wet. Its for a bed, not to make the shelving that holds dripping wet boards.
No need to screw into end grain when plopping it on a frame for a bed.

For some people, $10 vs $60 a sheet might help,so I threw it out there. Never said it was the gold standard, just a cheap option if its not going to get wet wet

10mm painted MDF in mine. Been there for years. No signs of water absorption/swelling/warping. Ive made sure its well supported (i sleep on it) and i do make a habit of keeping the van as dry as possible, but my boards live in there. I don't pull them out after a sail.

It can most certainly absorb moisture. But done the right way, and with a little care it's a viable budget alternative.

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peterowensbabs said..
Even manufacturers of stereo speakers etc which were once all MDF have given it away as too nasty and cheep (as opposed to inexpensive).

What do speaker makers use now? I have some home built speakers I made 20 years ago sitting in my lounge room and they have held up well. Obviously painted and have a veneer covering, but otherwise MDF. I thought it was the preferred material as it had minimal resonance.

Other that that, I agree, its a crap material. When renovating a house, my father suggested I use the MDF architraves, even though I was wanting to use pine, as there was little price difference in it. 10 years later and almost all of the MDF architravce and skirting had to be removed because the tenants had gotten them damp and they swelled. There was also a bit of a stink to them though I am not 100% sure if that was caused by the material or the tenants.

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FormulaNova said..

peterowensbabs said..
Even manufacturers of stereo speakers etc which were once all MDF have given it away as too nasty and cheep (as opposed to inexpensive).

What do speaker makers use now? I have some home built speakers I made 20 years ago sitting in my lounge room and they have held up well. Obviously painted and have a veneer covering, but otherwise MDF. I thought it was the preferred material as it had minimal resonance.

Other that that, I agree, its a crap material. When renovating a house, my father suggested I use the MDF architraves, even though I was wanting to use pine, as there was little price difference in it. 10 years later and almost all of the MDF architravce and skirting had to be removed because the tenants had gotten them damp and they swelled. There was also a bit of a stink to them though I am not 100% sure if that was caused by the material or the tenants.

Mostly plastic sadly, some of the audiophile quality are exotic composites, some solid timber.

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Mark _australia said..
Well I did say if its not going to get properly wet. Its for a bed, not to make the shelving that holds dripping wet boards.
No need to screw into end grain when plopping it on a frame for a bed.

For some people, $10 vs $60 a sheet might help,so I threw it out there. Never said it was the gold standard, just a cheap option if its not going to get wet wet

Not wishing to be a ass, but yes you could get $10 pack sheets, which are dimensionally unstable often 12 mm usually covered in scratches and fluffy from previous weather exposure, forklift graunched with busted corners etc etc etc and yes you could save $50 but you still need to go seal it so you blow $ on miratone shellac or whatever you choose to use. MDF has a place we use it for cheap shelving and disposable mould making workbenches but its not good in vehicles.

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peterowensbabs said..

Mostly plastic sadly, some of the audiophile quality are exotic composites, some solid timber.

Hmmm.... maybe vacuum bag the MDF and a layer of glass and call it composite

I think MDF for building speakers at home is good. Maybe the dust is meant to be bad for you, but it shapes well with a router.

I agree though that its not a practical material for lots of things. I had some small speakers that I made the cabinets from years ago, and even though I thought I had kept them dry, they had swelled.

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FormulaNova said..

peterowensbabs said..

Mostly plastic sadly, some of the audiophile quality are exotic composites, some solid timber.

Hmmm.... maybe vacuum bag the MDF and a layer of glass and call it composite

I think MDF for building speakers at home is good. Maybe the dust is meant to be bad for you, but it shapes well with a router.

I agree though that its not a practical material for lots of things. I had some small speakers that I made the cabinets from years ago, and even though I thought I had kept them dry, they had swelled.

Thats exactly my point over time regardless of how much effort is taken to keep it dry MDF will swell, it will suck moisture from just the air, and as we know in the presence of salt the amount of water vapour in the atmosphere gos up dramatically. As soon as it starts to swell it will swell even more and as soon as any water gets inside it will form mould, nasty toxic mould, not what you want sleep on or breath in whilst on the road.

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Boombuster said..
I used slats in my last Ace but they tend to rattle the hardest thing with fit outs in vans is stopped rattles and creaks.
Matt, any pic's from the HiAce fit out?

^^ and that is why I dont use slats. ( I also dont really understand the "mattress must be on slats to breath", because mattress-materials are already breathable. )

About a14 day (12+hrs per day) fitout so far... not quite finished with another 2'ish days of effort required.

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peterowensbabs said..
MDF has a place we use it for cheap shelving and disposable mould making workbenches but its not good in vehicles.

My first van fitout used MDF... never again. Even if the wood is sealed, and even if it never touches water... the water-vapour from wet gear, is enough to turn the wood into fibrous dust.

I used MDF because in a past life, I frequently built P.A. gear with it - it is a good material for subwoofers, W-bins, etc.

It has no place in a wet-van.

Which is why those manufacturer-provided van-panels need to at least be sealed... or replaced... as they are just crappier versions of MDF.

I use Yellow Tongue flooring particleboard in mine. It's wax impregnated and quite water resistant.
www.bunnings.com.au/our-range

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mathew said..

Boombuster said..
I used slats in my last Ace but they tend to rattle the hardest thing with fit outs in vans is stopped rattles and creaks.
Matt, any pic's from the HiAce fit out?

^^ and that is why I dont use slats. ( I also dont really understand the "mattress must be on slats to breath", because mattress-materials are already breathable. )

About a14 day (12+hrs per day) fitout so far... not quite finished with another 2'ish days of effort required.

Gee that looks good.
I have a mate building enclosed trailers for good prices at Victoria Point if you need one for your bike and ultralight