Ezzy Zeta vs Tiger vs Elite

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Created by

GazMan > 9 months ago, 8 Jun 2018

forceten

1312 posts

31 Oct 2018 11:02pm

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GazMan said..

forceten said..

GazMan said..

jimbob SA said..

forceten said..

jimbob SA said..
We need a 4.7 Cheetah

What a 6 batten 4.7m sail ?

Yes for fast freeride gps sailing a wave sail doesn't cut it.

But are the Cheetahs performance oriented enough for freeride gps 'speed sailing' compared to no-cam sails like a NCX or similar?

THe OP is about wave sails.

Severne make fine sails. The Cheetah is a might fine sail

Not really, OP more about high-wind freeride sails than wave sails, so 4.7 Cheetah would be a relevant topic!

Realize this is your thread, so your intent, if not in words is for those with between the lines and mind reading capabilities. The title doesn't say Cheetah .
The Tiger replaced the Wave Panther in 2012. The Tiger was called a all wave and water sail.
It continued as they Tiger until 2017 , replaced by the Zeta not what I would call a Freeride sail.
The Cheetah came about in 2012 and c ontinues with a new design to come out in 2019, its always been a Freeride camless sail.

The Elite has 4 battens , no way it is confused with a Freeride label sail. Elite came out in 2013 as a NO compromise wave sail.

A comparison between any Ezzy sails , is likely even the really older ones.

forceten

1312 posts

1 Nov 2018 12:31am

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jimbob SA said..
We need a 4.7 Cheetah

I researched sails, in a Freeride no cam line, the only sail (notsaying there are not others) I found Sailworks Retro a 4.5 with 6 battens.

I reckon this concept is not popular. 5.5 is smallest Cheetah, since the larger sizes have 7 battens, a 5 Batten Cheetah could be made
Ask him

david@ezzy.com

Tardy

5292 posts

1 Nov 2018 5:46pm

Hey GAZMAN. lets talk more on the cheetah ,if you asked about it you must do more slalom sailing down your way .
I can hang onto the 6 in very strong wind ,i reckon close to 26-28 knots ,so a 5,5 CHEETAH ,you should be able to
get your range of high wind sailing out of it ,depending how heavy you are of course ...
I would love a 5,5 cheetah in my quiver for the real howling days ...
a 5,0 CHEETAH would be awesome .I currently use a 5,0 2007 SE WAVE ,i can't kill it ..
I wonder if the 5,2 legacy would be to your need mate .
If you slalom sail most of the time ,thats what i would be looking at ,

Mark _australia

23526 posts

1 Nov 2018 6:25pm

I also thought this was abut wave sails

But if we are talking fast freeride / slalom / GPS - my question would be how is Ezzy going in the PWA recently?

RichardG

3761 posts

1 Nov 2018 6:58pm

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FrenchToast said..
Thanks for the info. Not settled yet but leaning Zeta. I need less reactive, more stable sails. Fits better my slightly more passive - locked in - sailing habit.
As far as sizes and all, it gets a bit more complicated bc I intend to use some of the sizes on multiple boards/purpose...

Still thinking but here's where I am:
- Lightwind Falcon: 9.4 V8, 8.5 Lion (if Lightwind foiling is for me, I would then let go of the 9.4 V8 in the future - too taxing)
- Lightwind Falcon + foil: 7.0 and 6.0 Lion (i'll give foiling a try early 2019)
- 125lt Bolt: 8.5 and 7.0 Lion
- 115lt Starship: 7.0 and 6.0 Lion, 5.2 and 4.7 Zeta (Need to sale and replace the Starship - too heavy/don't like how it rides)

if foiling is out:
- Lightwind Falcon: 9.4 V8, 8.5 Lion
- 125lt Bolt: 8.5 and 7.0 Lion
- 115lt Starship replacement: 7.0 and 5.8 and 5.0 Zeta

If you want a foiling sail in the Ezzy line up try the Hydra. The 7.0 m2 Hydra (185-199 cm boom) would be equivalent to a Lion 9.5 for foiling according to David Ezzy. Hence no need for the 8.5 Lion. Ezzy said in an email" "Using the 9.5 might be okay to get you up on the foil, but once flying, it will feel big and cumbersome." David Ezzy told me the following:

"I prefer the Hydra over the Lion. I made a two cam version of the Hydra, but I like the current, no-cam Hydra better. I have also tested a camber below the boom on the Hydra and found it was not better. Here are some of my thoughts:

1) For foiling, we need two sails in one. First we need a very deep and draft forward sail to get us going in the light wind. Then once flying, we need a flatter sail because the apparent wind shifts so far forward.

2) The hydra can be rigged incredibly deep for light wind. Much deeper than you can rig a cambered sail.

3) The hydra luff can "deflate" when up and flying and you don't feel any disturbance.

4) Even if you could rig a cambered sail as full, it would be a handful when flying, so you would need to pull very hard on your adjustable outhaul to flatten the sail.

5) If you overly flatten a camber sail, the cams end up de-rotated and the draft is further back.

6) Another interesting thing that I notice with the hydra when set very full, is that the luff is "deflated" at the boom, but not above. This indicates that the apparent wind angle is less at the bottom of the sail, than it is above. We know this is because the [true] wind speed increases as you go up off the water. Which also means the apparent wind angle gets greater as you go up the sail. So this indicates that we need a more forward draft (and twist) higher in the sail. The Hydra is able to 'self adjust" by luffing in the boom area and remaining full in the upper part of the sail.

7) I think the biggest speed limiter right now with foiling in the foil itself. This is because the induced drag of the foil increases with the speed.

8) That is why in strong wind a slalom board is still faster than a foil, because a normal windsurf board does not have to deal with induced drag.

9) But, if you look at it this way, you see that the sail on a foil is not so much the speed limiter, as is the foil.

10) Furthermore, applying normal windsurfing sail theory for racing sails, i.e., cambers, may not be the right approach when it comes to foiling."

It seems you may want to look into the Hydra. I haven't got one but maybe someone else has used one and may comment. David Ezzy is usually accurate and reliable in his advice. Of course you can't use the Hydra for normal windsurfing and shouldn't but the Falcon Lightwind is I take it a good foiling vehicle so a foiling sail makes sense.

GazMan

847 posts

1 Nov 2018 9:00pm

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Mark _australia said..
I also thought this was abut wave sails

But if we are talking fast freeride / slalom / GPS - my question would be how is Ezzy going in the PWA recently?

Yep was about 4.5-5.2 Ezzy wave/crossover sails as that's all they make for the high wind freeride/bump n' jump sailing I do. Did also mention the intended use and that I'm not into wave sailing, though apologies if I misled some people!

Hey Mark, why don't you ask how they're going in PWA wave events? Thought that was your area of interest?

NordRoi

669 posts

2 Nov 2018 12:25am

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Mark _australia said..
I also thought this was abut wave sails

But if we are talking fast freeride / slalom / GPS - my question would be how is Ezzy going in the PWA recently?

Ahahah, touch?!!!!

I have Ezzy Wave sails and Severn Slalom Sails probably for the same reason. But I assume I would probably do the same GPS speed on a Lion...rather have the label slalom...placebo effect for my performance! ;-)

RichardG

3761 posts

2 Nov 2018 4:50pm

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NordRoi said..

Mark _australia said.. - my question would be how is Ezzy going in the PWA recently?

Graham Ezzy placed third on the podium in the Aloha Classic. Top effort.

Edit: Sorry, I think that is the IWT not PWA.

Mastbender

1972 posts

3 Nov 2018 2:27am

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RichardG said..
Graham Ezzy placed third on the podium in the Aloha Classic. Top effort.

Edit: Sorry, I think that is the IWT not PWA.

It was the IWT, but they let the PWA competitors enter the event under the auspices of the IWT.
A little more Graham from yesterday ~

forceten

1312 posts

3 Nov 2018 10:51pm

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GazMan said..
Looking for opinions from people who have used Ezzy Zeta sails (particularly in 4.5-5.2 sizes) and how they compare with the Tiger they replaced, and also compared with the Elites.

OPost here. NO mention of Freeride blasting. Yes mislead by your post.

The Cheetahs in larger sizes would be the ticket, unless your into cams, then the Lion.
From your 'further' criteria , the Cheetah in 5.5 , then the Zeta which would offer the better range. The Elite is a fine sail, not what I read for you. YMMV
The Zeta is a continuation of the Tiger.

maikymoko

4 posts

14 Nov 2018 2:32am

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monoxide said..

GazMan said..
Looking for opinions from people who have used Ezzy Zeta sails (particularly in 4.5-5.2 sizes) and how they compare with the Tiger they replaced, and also compared with the Elites.

I primarily sail gusty winds and flat water and own all three (3.7 Elite, 4.2 Tiger, 4.7 Zeta, 5.2 Tiger), and the Zeta is my favorite and is a perfect blend of the Tiger and Elite. It is a little softer and more elastic feeling (but a little less power) then the Tigers, and a little more stable then the Elite. With this being said, the differences are not so big that I want to 'upgrade' the Tiger or the Elite anytime soon. Also as a hypothetical - if I found a really nice 2016 Tiger for half the price of a new Zeta, I would save the money and get the Tiger. Another hypothetical - if I was primarily a wave sailor, the Elite would probably be my top choice.
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lake for bump n jump, ripping in and out of chop and thrilling straight line speed.

dhat

32 posts

14 Nov 2018 7:21pm

Anyone sailed a Cheetah 9.5? Any experience with huge camless sails?

forceten

1312 posts

14 Nov 2018 11:37pm

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GazMan said..

Mark _australia said..
I also thought this was abut wave sails

But if we are talking fast freeride / slalom / GPS - my question would be how is Ezzy going in the PWA recently?

This thread got bumped, so I reread some posts. GazMan : The Ezzy Legacy , which escaped me prior comes in 4.2-4.7-5.2.

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