How long did it take most people to get comfortable gybing from being on the plane, maybe slowing down a bit, then on to the plane again?

When you did your first forward or loop?

Trying to work out if I am pushing myself enough..... obviously not expecting to do forwards tomorrow, but there must come a point where I should give something a bit radical a go.....

Creating reasonable expectations of learning

AND going to get some lessons hopefully in November.... for the gybes.

i reckon i started making my gybes in my second season on a short board. (i had already done a fair bit of sailing as a kid on dads big old kit).
A huge factor for my gybing was getting on the right kit. First board to small, 2nd board to tecnical, 3rd board - oh wow, wish someone had told me this earlier:)

First forward loop - 3rd season.
Last forward loop - 3rd season. I discovered that my body and bank balance couldnt afford the cheques i was writting on the water

Gybing - 5yrs ish

Forwards - haven't got the balls to try but everyone who can reckons they are waaay easier than a perfect gybe.

So get the forwards nailed first!

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Mark _australia said...

Gybing - 5yrs ish

Forwards - haven't got the balls to try but everyone who can reckons they are waaay easier than a perfect gybe.

So get the forwards nailed first!

Hey Mark, I don't feel like such a slow learner after all! Thanks.
I'd say 5 years too (and I can't do a full planing gybe yet, but I'm getting closer...) I'm not the most coordinated or athletic person so it has been a slow process. Some tuition recently has made a huge difference.
I have no desire to try a forward.

10 years this year and only just starting to gybe with some consistency.

I still "Woo hoo" when I do a good one

What about bump and jump big airs???? How long till you tried some of those?

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Mark _australia said...

Gybing - 5yrs ish

Forwards - haven't got the balls to try but everyone who can reckons they are waaay easier than a perfect gybe.

So get the forwards nailed first!

People who say Forwards are waaaay easier than a perfect gybe aren't doing perfect forwards..

Just like a bad gybe is also a lot easier than a perfect waterstart in 5knots..

This might be a bitter pill to swallow, but if a forward loop ends with a big back splash, or sore balls it's not a really a perfect forward.. It's the equivalent of doing a gybe, falling off the plane, jarring your finger on the rig flip, and punching yourself in the nuts..

A perfect forward off chop or small waves should result in dry ankles.. (obviously this becomes more difficult/impossible as the jump gets higher). But, I find people who can 'forward' have given up on trying to perfect the textbook forward..

It's a subtle argument, so I'm expecting to be blitzed for this observation.. But a perfect forward takes longer to learn than the perfect gybe..



(dry ankles is a figure of speech, undoubtedly they get sprayed most of the time..

fwds...

the heart says give it a try you pussy

the brain says, yes this is possible

the knees always say no fken way and win every time.



took me 1 season to do a sort of planing gybe... was on a 160lt starboard go !! gybing on a swell !!!! does this count ?

Re going for airs in bump and jump conditions.
I was 18 yo and this was what i was keen to achieve.
it took about a month or so to get comfortable with planning in footstraps and hooked in on my first short board - not even attempting gybes, jush bail and turn.

As soon as i could plane along and not stack randomly i started to try and jump. The jumps felt huge - but no doubt it would have been a challenge to squeeze a credit card between my fin and the water

its some time ago now but i reckon it would have been my second season before i got any real air (over 50cm i guess) . it seems as though you improve each session with jumping. You learn to see the ramps earlier and put yourself in the right spot more often and hit those ramps faster. And I read some articles on technique which helped heaps.

a decade or so later and I hit ramps at 100 knots and get about 115m into the air. Next year i plan to jump the Sydney harbour bridge.

It obviously depends on the sailng conditions available to you, and of course having the right gear. Having good sailors around you for inspiration & advice would be a big help. Then, some people are naturally more athletic than others, with better balance, spacial skills and whatnot. Some pick it up in no time, others take ages.

The fact that you are obviously mad keen "How long will it take? How long will it take? Tellmetellmetellme!" may, or may not, make a difference. I was mad keen for ages (still am, of course) but the progress has always come very very slowly. And I've seen people who work in a rental centre with good wind much of the time and a great environment, but the next year when I saw them again they honestly hadn't gotten much better.

But if you really want a number, I'd say maybe living in a place with good wind and plenty of opportunities to sail, I'd say maybe between 2 and 5 years to really get your sh!t together to a fairly high intermediate level.

The question you have to ask yourself is 'how far do I want to take my windsurfing?' Some people are happy just to fang back and forth indefinitely with the occasional gybe thrown in. Others want to push the limits of their capability, windsurfing can be an endless pursuit.

End of the day if you want to learn a move you just have to start trying it and KEEP trying it at every opportunity, the more you try the more likely you'll succeed. A lot of moves, particularly in freestyle take a massive amount of practice/attempts to learn.

I am located in Melbourne, close to Port Phillip Bay..... just got inspired seeing the regulars at Kinane Street doing big airs and loops... I think just seeing dudes that can do that encourages me to try and improve quicker.....

It's been 2 years of windsurfing now I think.... and think I have lost some focus on nailing gybes... because you just want to go speeding along, you go sailing, but stop learning... but need to sacrifice that I think and just short runs and gybe... short runs and gybe.... focus on it... maybe tuck a laminated step by step under my vest.....

Gear - I have a 124 Sting DT, which I find is a really forgiving board.. will be my gybing tool..... and a Tabou 85 Da Curve, which I can ride perfectly fine planning, but haven't pulled off a gybe on....nor tacked.... but really haven't tried properly I spose...... what I want to get to is gybing that thing and hitting ramps with it...... such is the dream...

The jumps... I think I need to suck it up and just try and do it..... we get good ramps in southerlies..... very surprising actually....

Hey K Dog - similar conditions over here. I'm about 5-6 years in, still haven't nailed a proper carve gybe, but prob get about 60-70% 'stalled' gybes on my small board (heavy bastard with no ability!)

With forwards - as mentioned above (actually sounds a lot like me) I've come close to a ramp intending to try a forward, but chickened out at the last second and have decided that I'm not going to attempt one now...the main comment I've had is that you will have to be prepared to spend money when you break gear, and prepare for injury - if you're happy with that, go for it (I'm too much for self & bank balance preservation). Too many years of playing footy have worn on my knees & shoulder, so not prepared to go that extra step if it means that I'll be off the water for an extended period when my main enjoyment is blasting and ramps (also getting into a bit of wave riding).

As for chop hopping & ramps, it's only been in the last 2 years that I've started committing to getting as much air as possible and it's a great feeling! Speeding toward a forming wave or runner & getting into position, point the nose of the board skyward and raking the sail in as you launch, holding your position in the air & letting the sail carry you...whew, I wish I was out there now!

Originally learnt in Auckland.
First gybe was probably close to a year. (Progressed from a long board to short board after 6mths).
The incentive was my school mates were a few years ahead of me and I had to catch up.

Attempted barrells in the early 90's but kept hurting my ankles so gave up. Boards were a lot heavier back then I suppose.

If you've got the energy and the inclination go for it.

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K Dog said...


It's been 2 years of windsurfing now I think.... and think I have lost some focus on nailing gybes... because you just want to go speeding along, you go sailing, but stop learning... but need to sacrifice that I think and just short runs and gybe... short runs and gybe.... focus on it... maybe tuck a laminated step by step under my vest.....

If you want to improve at gybes, and you're not a natural athlete, you really have to sail with the intention of practicing gybes. Do lots of short runs and gybe attempts, preferably over waist deep water so you don't lose too much energy waterstarting. Do your practice early in the session while you are still fresh. Leave the blasting for ballistic days when the gybing is going to be difficult anyway or after you've practiced gybes and need some long runs to recover.
These are things which have helped me (and I'm far from expert, but improving, by working on it and following the steps below.)
Get an instructional video.
Practice the steps on the beach (or in the garden at home if you're embarrassed) so you get the routine down pat and the foot twist and hand change/rig flip sorted.
Once those things become automatic you can concentrate on the timing on the water, which has been the key for me.
Concentrate on the entry into the gybe, especially the bear away, (not spectacular but SOooo important) and the rest will follow so much easier.
Get a good gyber to watch you and tell you where you can improve.
Join the GPSTC. There's nothing like the quest for the PB to to make you push yourself to improve.

improvement starts with your mindset. stay hungry and persistence will win the day.

1. know what you should be doing (lessons/advice/tuition videos/seabreeze)
2. critically examine what you are doing (film yourself/get someone to watch you/ think about what happened last gybe when the nose rounded up after rig flip- if you know your theory you'll know what causes this and what you need to do to fix it)
3. spend plenty of time on water. go out with a mission. (this session I will concentrate on bearing away before i engage the inside edge)

little victories soon add up, and one day (sometimes by accident) you get it all right - you power out of a gybe with the board still chattering over the water as you hook in on your new tack.

the grin will stay on your face for days.

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Trousers said...

improvement starts with your mindset. stay hungry and persistence will win the day.

1. know what you should be doing (lessons/advice/tuition videos/seabreeze)
2. critically examine what you are doing (film yourself/get someone to watch you/ think about what happened last gybe when the nose rounded up after rig flip- if you know your theory you'll know what causes this and what you need to do to fix it)
3. spend plenty of time on water. go out with a mission. (this session I will concentrate on bearing away before i engage the inside edge)

little victories soon add up, and one day (sometimes by accident) you get it all right - you power out of a gybe with the board still chattering over the water as you hook in on your new tack.

the grin will stay on your face for days.

Don't get so bogged down on trying to be brilliant that it wrecks the fun! ( do what I say not what I do..)
Focus on the little positive breakthroughs..I've been reteaching myself how to gybe using the ' correct ' technique. After about 18months I am getting the occasional 'perfect' carve gybe , I keep moving out of them about 30% of the time and don't fall in on many whereas I used to fall in on every turn.
If I pull a good one off I'm buzzing for hours after! Enjoy the wins!

If you can manage to find somewhere that you can sail between with 2 shallow areas where you can stand you be able to progress pretty quickly.

I learnt in the pond at safety bay before there were a billion kiters. I just started carving around in turns each direction and got further and further until I could carve almost all the way and flip the sail.

Also depends how persistent you are. If your attempting it every single turn you probably won't take that long to pick it up.

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Windxtasy said...

If you want to improve at gybes, and you're not a natural athlete, you really have to sail with the intention of practicing gybes. Do lots of short runs and gybe attempts, preferably over waist deep water so you don't lose too much energy waterstarting. Do your practice early in the session while you are still fresh. Leave the blasting for ballistic days when the gybing is going to be difficult anyway or after you've practiced gybes and need some long runs to recover.
These are things which have helped me (and I'm far from expert, but improving, by working on it and following the steps below.)
Get an instructional video.
Practice the steps on the beach (or in the garden at home if you're embarrassed) so you get the routine down pat and the foot twist and hand change/rig flip sorted.
Once those things become automatic you can concentrate on the timing on the water, which has been the key for me.
Concentrate on the entry into the gybe, especially the bear away, (not spectacular but SOooo important) and the rest will follow so much easier.
Get a good gyber to watch you and tell you where you can improve.
Join the GPSTC. There's nothing like the quest for the PB to to make you push yourself to improve.

This is all really good advice esp GPSTC. You don't have to be into speed either for it to have a positive effect. You just can't go fast where I sail, but I reckon I'm twice the sailor now compared to a year ago when I got the GPS.

Doggy dude, come down to Sandy Point on a moderate (ie around 20knots) Easterly or SW wind and use the smooth water to practice - you can literally do hundreds of gybes in a session if you keep the runs short. The smooth water means you can focus on the moves and not have to worry about fitting the turns into wave lines. But it will help you when you get back on bumpy water. Also on such a day there will always be one of the Pit crew around (eg Kato) who will be happy to give you some tips on nailing it.

I agree also that joining the GTC will help you as it gives you benchmarks to measure your progress against, and the competitive spirit also helps you progress.

Sorry, can't help on loops - never tried! Some day I might but I'm currently obsessed with going really fast and gybing well!

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boardboy said...

i reckon i started making my gybes in my second season on a short board. (i had already done a fair bit of sailing as a kid on dads big old kit).
A huge factor for my gybing was getting on the right kit. First board to small, 2nd board to tecnical, 3rd board - oh wow, wish someone had told me this earlier:)

First forward loop - 3rd season.
Last forward loop - 3rd season. I discovered that my body and bank balance couldnt afford the cheques i was writting on the water

Right with ya on that one.

There was a prize offered to our local crew from a costom board shaper (slab of beer) to the first one to put down a foreward. I went out alone with the sole purpose of sussing this out. Whats the big deal, right? Just a jump off the wind a bit with an intentional catapault they say, just need some commitment.

Found a nice little ramp, sucked in a big one and around I went, landed in a waterstart position. sweet. second and third were ok too but the fourth broke my ankle. took five years and surgery to get it right.

Forewards are more for pose value than for fun.

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Forewards are more for pose value than for fun.

The first few are just a blur with a splash.Foreward in waves are not that exillerating as they are a slow rotation and too slow in your case(landing in waterstart)and just floating around.



But a perfect flatwater foreward is a mindblowing feeling .
Have a look just at Yarden,s body during the rotation.
When was the last time your body got flung and spun so hard?
and then planing out faster(yes thats faster) than when you went into it.
For those who get a great buzz from exiting their gybe planing the concept of exiting faster ,well would sound imposible .
This type of loop is purely for self satisfaction, the G force is amazing .
It's the the ones you land 5m from the shore in a foot of water that are poser ones.

there's a vid someone posted (the person was foreign and new to seabreeze at the time and was showing off places from overseas - many months back) possibly from spain or somewhere similar - close to the start of the vid there's a guy forwarding from totally absolutely dead flat water, getting height like he'd hit a wave, and planed out of it. i remember thinking holy crap that's the bestest forward i'd ever seen and it was very impressive!

can anyone remember the vid or have the link?

wow, hows this for an old seabreeze thread? google is amazing (or evil)

this forward is hard to beat planing or not

www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Windsurfing/General/Ricardos-1-footed-flat-water-loop/?whichpage=-1

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Windxtasy said...

Practice the steps on the beach (or in the garden at home if you're embarrassed) so you get the routine down pat and the foot twist and hand change/rig flip sorted.
Once those things become automatic you can concentrate on the timing on the water, which has been the key for me.

+1 To that. The difference that muscle memory makes is amazing.

Break down whatever move you are trying down in to steps. I am about as gracefull on my feet as a drunk elephant so if I'm struggling I do the footwork first on land with no sail (and obviously no fin) at all. Prance around on your board looking like a prat until you don't have to think about what your feet are doing. Then worry about rig flips or whatever. But just going through the motions can be really helpful.

as a great person once said...
"push the envelope"
you'll regret it otherwise

Thanks all! Appreciate the comments and all the good advice here!

I might just get my 124 ltr board, take the fin off, spend an hour on the beach with just the mast and boom attached, no sail and do simulations of the steps....
on the beach of course . Or a completely no wind day with a 4.5m sail just for the weight feeling....

Muscle memory is the right step forward as mentioned.... and see if I can get someone to correct me.... then give it a crack....

Good for a no wind day perhaps.....

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K Dog said...

Thanks all! Appreciate the comments and all the good advice here!

I might just get my 124 ltr board, take the fin off, spend an hour on the beach with just the mast and boom attached, no sail and do simulations of the steps....
on the beach of course . Or a completely no wind day with a 4.5m sail just for the weight feeling....

Muscle memory is the right step forward as mentioned.... and see if I can get someone to correct me.... then give it a crack....

Good for a no wind day perhaps.....

A very light wind day is best, 5 - 10 knots, with a small sail, board facing downwind, because the feeling of the pull in the sail and swing weight at different points is important. Check there are no stones or nuts under the board! I also roll up a towel and place it lengthwise under the tail of the board so you can tilt the board with foot pressure. Remember carving is with both feet - pulling up on the front strap as well as depressing the inner rail.

Even off the water this is good excercise. Another advantage of doing it in your garden is you can practice every day, especially easy if you can leave a small sail rigged up. Keep practicing until it becomes automatic because there is no time to think when gybing on the water. If you're a slow learner like me it will take many sessions.

Keep trying!

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Windxtasy said...

K Dog said...

Thanks all! Appreciate the comments and all the good advice here!

I might just get my 124 ltr board, take the fin off, spend an hour on the beach with just the mast and boom attached, no sail and do simulations of the steps....
on the beach of course . Or a completely no wind day with a 4.5m sail just for the weight feeling....

Muscle memory is the right step forward as mentioned.... and see if I can get someone to correct me.... then give it a crack....

Good for a no wind day perhaps.....

A very light wind day is best, 5 - 10 knots, with a small sail, board facing downwind, because the feeling of the pull in the sail and swing weight at different points is important. Check there are no stones or nuts under the board! I also roll up a towel and place it lengthwise under the tail of the board so you can tilt the board with foot pressure. Remember carving is with both feet - pulling up on the front strap as well as depressing the inner rail.

Even off the water this is good excercise. Another advantage of doing it in your garden is you can practice every day, especially easy if you can leave a small sail rigged up. Keep practicing until it becomes automatic because there is no time to think when gybing on the water. If you're a slow learner like me it will take many sessions.

Keep trying!

Thanks for that - good ideas there! Now I can go sailing on a light wind day :P

^ quite a lot of bad technique there - they don't move their hand down the boom as they sheet in...

good tip for building confidence with looping is to practise catapulting yourself like you would in a loop on flat water in light winds. jump off your board and sheet in hard and end up on your back in the water. builds up muscle memory.
then when you're feeling confident do it off a bit of chop with your board attached!