Hey all,

I've been windsurfing for about a year in total, with roughly 6 month using my own kit.

At the moment I have Starboard GO 155 LTR with Severne Synergy 6.0 Rig. I am also 110 kgs and 189cm tall. I think the Synergy rig pack consists of 430 mast.

So I've got a couple of questions.

1) From the Severne 'custom' range what is the closest boom and mast that will match my current rig? White line? Red Line?

2) If I want to get a bigger sail say a 7.5 Gator (http://www.severnesails.com/2010/sails/gator/index.html) will I be able to use everything out of the existing rig? Or will I need to upgrade something? As the spec page for Gator 7.5 said I need 460 mast.

Thanks in advance.

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1) From the Severne 'custom' range what is the closest boom and mast that will match my current rig? White line? Red Line?

in therms of carbon content and price is going to be closer to the white line, in terms of stiffness and curve there website does not say much, but if you want a bigger sail you are going to need a bigger mast so that probably does not matter

2) If I want to get a bigger sail say a 7.5 Gator (http://www.severnesails.com/2010/sails/gator/index.html) will I be able to use everything out of the existing rig? Or will I need to upgrade something? As the spec page for Gator 7.5 said I need 460 mast.

You could probably use the extension, the boom, and the base, who ever sells you the bigger sail will no exactly.

Just need a mast and a sail. Not much different than say if you already owned a 6m gator already...

You will find in the bigger sizes and the larger incremenents needed to achieve a constant percertage change you will need more masts...

Arch, I'm about the same size as you, and also a Viccy, I find that a 6.5 is the most common sail I use, rigs on a 460 mast. Most of my other sails (6.0 -7.5) rig on this size mast also, with only a couple needing a 430. If you're looking at getting on the water more often, and increasing your quiver...a 460 is prob a good investment.

Hi Architect,

1) the Synergy mast and boom are closest to the WhiteLine mast and WhiteLine boom specs.

2) The cheapest option would be to get a Synergy 7.5, as that would fit all your existing components.
If you upgraded to a Gator 7.5 and 460 mast (preferably BlueLine) the advantage would be increased performance; faster, and increased wind range (top end. Light wind performance would be very similar.) Also increased durability as the Gator is full xply.

Hope that helps.
Ben.

Thanks Ben,

Based on what you are saying there would be a significant price difference between these two options.

With the Synergy 7.5 costing roughly $500.
While a new 460 mast with a Gator would wrack up $1,000+.

Are those correct ballparks?

I'm not too sure on the actual retail prices in Australia. But for sure the cheapest option would be to just get a Synergy 7.5.

The main thing to look at is whether you're going to be windsurfing now and then or if you're really going to get into it. If performance is important to you, then you'll get the extra $$$ value out of a Gator and BlueLine mast.

There's lots of ways of looking at it. Maybe the biggest sail is going to be the one you use the least, so it'd make sense to allocate less $$$ to it. Or you've been bitten by the windsurfing bug and you want to get as much out of every session as possible, so the extra performance is worth the $$$.
For me, every hour I'm able to spend on the water has a lot more value than the time I spend doing just about anything. So I spend a fortune on either the equipment I need, or on getting me somewhere to get quality water time. But that's just me, and others might see it as a little extreme...

Hey again Ben,

Thanks for the honest and transparent advice.

I've also been looking at the NP Zen - the sail seems to be more closely aligned with the custom range but it can fit a 430 mast in all sizes.

What is your opinion of the Zen and it's performance and versatility compared to it's price point (which is lower due to no requirement for a mast upgrade).

I know I am asking you to provide a review of a product from a competitor, but in the interests of honesty and transparency I would be very appreciative if you could provide an opinion.

Cheers,
Architect

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Architect said...

Hey again Ben,

Thanks for the honest and transparent advice.

I've also been looking at the NP Zen - the sail seems to be more closely aligned with the custom range but it can fit a 430 mast in all sizes.

What is your opinion of the Zen and it's performance and versatility compared to it's price point (which is lower due to no requirement for a mast upgrade).

I know I am asking you to provide a review of a product from a competitor, but in the interests of honesty and transparency I would be very appreciative if you could provide an opinion.

Cheers,
Architect

I am pretty sure that NP have their own masts which are a different curve to most other companies ( though North may be similar?).

Al

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I am pretty sure that NP have their own masts which are a different curve to most other companies ( though North may be similar?).

First I've heard of any mast having a 'curve'...

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Architect said...

I am pretty sure that NP have their own masts which are a different curve to most other companies ( though North may be similar?).

First I've heard of any mast having a 'curve'...

yeah, depending on the construction they bend diferently. End result is that they have different native shape when you apply downhaul. The sails luff has the curve sewn in and a matching sail/mast pair will technically fit better and have the proper shape when tuned correctly. But this is getting into hardcore performance. As a learner you wouldnt realy notice the difference. It makes a difference for those that are looking for that extra 0.1%.

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breakwind said...

Architect said...

I am pretty sure that NP have their own masts which are a different curve to most other companies ( though North may be similar?).

First I've heard of any mast having a 'curve'...

yeah, depending on the construction they bend diferently. End result is that they have different native shape when you apply downhaul. The sails luff has the curve sewn in and a matching sail/mast pair will technically fit better and have the proper shape when tuned correctly. But this is getting into hardcore performance. As a learner you wouldnt realy notice the difference. It makes a difference for those that are looking for that extra 0.1%.

I believe it's more than 0.1% but in the end probably not that significant. Though if you were to go to a company website to ask for tuning tips "what mast are you using?" would be one of the first bits of information you would need to supply.

From the NP website....




Can I use a non-NeilPryde mast on a NeilPryde sail?


Solution:
We always recommend that you use the mast that is indicated on the tack of the sail, as this will guarantee the optimum performance of your NeilPryde sail and reduces the risk of damage to your sail.#65533;

No offence but that type of rig customization is annoying. These types of limitations stunt growth of sports.

Very similar to the entire apple Macintosh vs PC.

So annoying!

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Architect said...

No offence but that type of rig customization is annoying. These types of limitations stunt growth of sports.

Very similar to the entire apple Macintosh vs PC.

So annoying!

Yes definitely, even though it mostly effects the racing end of the sport it can be a problem with rigging some cammed sails. Broadly speaking I think most masts are either constant curve or flex top (NP and North being flex top and most of the others constant curve...I think). Everything works but some combinations work better than others I guess.

Hi Architect,

I'm not that familiar with that Pryde sail - I've never sailed one. From looking at the specs I'd say the Zen is more similar to our Synergy sail than a Gator. The Zen and Synergy are both 5 batten designs, so will have less stability than a 6 batten Gator. The Zen and Synergy are both constructed using monofilm in the body (although the Zen does have more X-ply in the upper sections of the sail.), which doesn't have the durability of the 100% X-ply Gator.

But the real issue I see is (as others have mentioned) the mast compatibility issue - the Pryde curve is unique and you'd need to change to a Pryde mast to get the most out of that sail. (I agree that it's annoying that your mast won't fit, but it will fit most other brands besides Pryde and North relatively well.)

My call would be to go for the Synergy. Minimal outlay, and when you outgrow it's performance you'll have plenty of hours on the water and it'll be more clear whether you need to step up to higher performance equipment.

Ben.

Ben.

Interesting comments about NP masts. I know that NP masts used to have their own curve, but in recent years are supposed to have moved to the IMCS "constant curve". I know my 460 30% NP mast, which is about 5-6 years old, is marked "constant curve".

Hi, All,

At the risk of starting yet another debate about mast and bend curves, NP moved away from CC masts years ago. They now call their mast curve "Progressive Flex" which involves a slightly stiffer mast bottom (compared to a true CC) with a slightly flexier mast top (compared to CC). The masts still meet the IMCS rating, due to its tolerance (but how do we know for sure?).

There's a good explanation of the history of mast and curve development on the Maui Sails forum site by Barry Spanier, but it takes some time to read it.

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ozbiker56 said...

Interesting comments about NP masts. I know that NP masts used to have their own curve, but in recent years are supposed to have moved to the IMCS "constant curve". I know my 460 30% NP mast, which is about 5-6 years old, is marked "constant curve".

Even when they called them constant curve they were pretty much soft tops.The formal definition of "constant curve" is pretty broad. As I understand it it includes all the bends between 10% and 15%. NP comes in at the 15% end. Maui Sails comes in at the 10% end. The difference is important in spite of what you might hear from some of the more vocal ignorant

A difference of just 2% can make batten rotation in a wave sail very difficult and throw the shape of a race sail right out.
I currently run a couple of sails designed for 12% bend on a 13% mast and I have to kick the bottom batten across on both of them. They are different brands and one is a wave sail, the other a twin cam. Its no big deal but its not much difference either.
The difficulties from going the other way are not so pronounced. You don't get sticky battens but you get flatter sails and tighter upper leaches.

The majority of sails are designed for 12% bend.

from previous topic a while ago...

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Wineman said...

from previous topic a while ago...

Where are Sailworks?