Hi guys!
I have recently purchased a Duotone Super Hero sail and has that light blue "ring" in the middle pulley that is meant to be used to a "Loop and go" Duotone extension.
Does anyone has-knows a way to suggest, for trimming the sail with a non Duotone extension?
For example, should I remove the middle plastic ring?
Should I replace the whole pulley?
A third suggestion, perhaps?
Thanks in advance.

get better rope...

yes, formuline will make it much easier to downhaul:
www.surfsailaustralia.com.au/product/marlow-38-mm-formuline#surf-sail-clothing-hardware

Show us a picture of your estension without the sail so we can see where the rope originates. A top view would probably be best.

It just looks like a threading issue.

Better rope and it appears you are crossing lines by not using the correct method for when the pulleys of the sail and extension are 90 deg to each other (as mentioned by those above)

It seems it's intended to be used as a two pulley system

boardsportscalifornia.com/product/2025-duotone-now/



"TACK ROLLER 2.0


During the development of the TACK ROLLER 2.0 we've measured the downhaul forces on all kind of sails. We've found out these interesting facts:1. When downhauling a cambered slalom sail the forces necessary are nearly 3 times as high as when downhauling a no-cam (wave) sail (160 kg vs. 60kg)
2. With a 6:1 power-ratio you need to pull twice as much rope-length as with a 4:1 ratio. Therefore, with a 4:1 ratio you can downhaul the sail in one go, whereas with a 6:1 ratio you always need to retighten the rope.
3. Threading the rope through all rollers (without the rope getting crossed) takes at least 4 times as long as just looping the rope.
4. In theory with a 6:1 power-ratio the downhaul forces should only be half as high compared to a 4:1 ratio. In real life though the friction loss at each roller reduces the downhaul tension by only 15% at most (wave sail: 57 kg vs. 60 kg / slalom camber sail: 135 kg vs. 160 kg). Therefore, we've designed 2 versions of the TACK ROLLER 2.0: >> NOCAM Version used on all no-cam sails
The massive comfort and speed advantages of the 4:1 ratio (Loop-Loop-Go) outweigh the very slightly reduced downhaul forces of the 6:1 ratio.
This version features 2 nickel plated brass rollers at the outside plus a center spacer featuring a bigger diameter. This ensures that the rope loop automatically slips into the 2 outside rollers. >> CAM Version used on all cambered sails
The downhaul forces are so massive that even a small reduction helps.
The 3rd slightly bigger roller allows to either use the 4:1 (Loop-Loop) or the 6:1 (Thread-Through) option."

As elmo said, looks like a threading issue of the downhaul, try the 1st 1/2 of this video:

Purchase a Duotone Power XT extension. You'll never regret it. I believe the Power XT is the best windsurfing innovation of the last 10 years

Why we saying threading issue.? Looks fine all is straight

Why do you want to rip the blue bit off if you can pull it down that far? why do we think he can't downhaul enough - pic shows he can.

I am not seeing issues.?

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Mark _australia said..
Why we saying threading issue.? Looks fine all is straight

Why do you want to rip the blue bit off if you can pull it down that far? why do we think he can't downhaul enough - pic shows he can.

I am not seeing issues.?

Ditto

I have Superheros and the pulley on the sail looks twisted.

Hedgehog is on the money - you need to play around with threading into the pulleys on the base to make sure the pulley on the sail isn't twisted.

Here's the concept...but you will have to play out with the rope threading because you have a different extension.

^^^^. But. it looks great in the pic.
no crossing over, pulley meets pulley
wassup?

I'm also going to suggest Duotone are a bit arrogant in saying that you only need two pulleys for a wave sail. Yeah but using three is easier. What about smaller women, kids or injured people? But you've filled in the middle pulley for no reason at all and made it harder for some folks!

ohhhhh hang on - you want to sell more PowerXT extensions right.? Maybe if it had three pulleys like it always used to, the smaller folks would do just fine.
I smell a rat. It's to sell more PowerXT I reckon.

at the very least it is unnecessary design crap with extra plastic bit that just isn't needed. Euro rubbish with a designer more involved than users. Thank god for practical strong basic sh1t from other brands that just works.

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Mark _australia said..
I'm also going to suggest Duotone are a bit arrogant in saying that you only need two pulleys for a wave sail. Yeah but using three is easier. What about smaller women, kids or injured people? But you've filled in the middle pulley for no reason at all and made it harder for some folks!

ohhhhh hang on - you want to sell more PowerXT extensions right.? Maybe if it had three pulleys like it always used to, the smaller folks would do just fine.
I smell a rat.
at the very least it is unnecessary design crap with extra plastic bit that just isn't needed. Euro rubbish with a designer more involved than users. Thank god for practical strong basic sh1t from other brands that just works.

Huh?

Don't knock what you haven't tried, most people with the power xt wouldn't go back. No stuffing around with downhaul tools, no stuffing tying loops & knots, no cable row pulling - just a few clicks and you are good to go - it just makes things easy.

Mark, I thought you would be all for development and innovation.

I didn't say the PowerXT was crap
I said they took away one pulley for no reason and put the blue blob in
so now they might sell more PowerXT ..?

can't see any other motive to redesign the perfectly good three pulleys one on the wave sails

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Skyron said..
Does anyone has-knows a way to suggest, for trimming the sail with a non Duotone extension?

+


www.surfsailaustralia.com.au/product/ezzy-stainless-tack-pulley

1. no you don't need a power.xt
2. once you have one, you don't want to go back
3. you can perfectly achieve the necessary downhaul using just two pulleys, and with your extension
4. I also don't see any cross-over or other major issues...
5. ...other than the rope; it's crap, will break soon-is, and will make downhauling unnecessarily harder than with dyneema, which will pretty much last forever on a wave sail

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Mark _australia said..

can't see any other motive to redesign the perfectly good three pulleys one on the wave sails

We don't need 3 pulleys anymore, so this is redundant on wave sails.
Other brands like Severe are on a pulley system like this for a while now and with their Cyclops extension it saves you another minute when rigging and is much easier to down haul as you just pull the handle.

Yes you need a new extension which lasts for a very long time anyway. Severne used to still allow you to use old extensions for a few years, guess to help transition people over.

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Mark _australia said..
I'm also going to suggest Duotone are a bit arrogant in saying that you only need two pulleys for a wave sail. Yeah but using three is easier. What about smaller women, kids or injured people? But you've filled in the middle pulley for no reason at all and made it harder for some folks!

ohhhhh hang on - you want to sell more PowerXT extensions right.? Maybe if it had three pulleys like it always used to, the smaller folks would do just fine.
I smell a rat. It's to sell more PowerXT I reckon.

at the very least it is unnecessary design crap with extra plastic bit that just isn't needed. Euro rubbish with a designer more involved than users. Thank god for practical strong basic sh1t from other brands that just works.

If they got rid of that useless blue bit and put a pulley wheel there it would solve all problems,it's dumb

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Ben1973 said..

Mark _australia said..
I'm also going to suggest Duotone are a bit arrogant in saying that you only need two pulleys for a wave sail. Yeah but using three is easier. What about smaller women, kids or injured people? But you've filled in the middle pulley for no reason at all and made it harder for some folks!

ohhhhh hang on - you want to sell more PowerXT extensions right.? Maybe if it had three pulleys like it always used to, the smaller folks would do just fine.
I smell a rat. It's to sell more PowerXT I reckon.

at the very least it is unnecessary design crap with extra plastic bit that just isn't needed. Euro rubbish with a designer more involved than users. Thank god for practical strong basic sh1t from other brands that just works.

If they got rid of that useless blue bit and put a pulley wheel there it would solve all problems,it's dumb

I agree its dumb. The advantage I could do with is, when using the power extension, that middle spacer would make threading through the loop easier. Just about every time, the loop doesn't go on each outside wheel. This costs me between 3 - 5 seconds of my valuable time to fix. That could be the difference between hitting a sand bank and going over the handlebars on a fast-outgoing tide. The other odd thing is, that the Power XT is mostly used on bigger and cammed sails, so this system should be on those sails, not the wave sails that need it less. But then you can't use the three pulleys for a standard ext. Yep, its dumb. Not so dumb, if you could take the pulley system apart and swap that middle pulley for what extension you have. I could see that middle spacer wheel a good thing for PowerXT users. The maths says if I go sailing once a week, I will save three and a half minutes a year. Serious third world problem solved.

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Ben1973 said..

Mark _australia said..
I'm also going to suggest Duotone are a bit arrogant in saying that you only need two pulleys for a wave sail. Yeah but using three is easier. What about smaller women, kids or injured people? But you've filled in the middle pulley for no reason at all and made it harder for some folks!

ohhhhh hang on - you want to sell more PowerXT extensions right.? Maybe if it had three pulleys like it always used to, the smaller folks would do just fine.
I smell a rat. It's to sell more PowerXT I reckon.

at the very least it is unnecessary design crap with extra plastic bit that just isn't needed. Euro rubbish with a designer more involved than users. Thank god for practical strong basic sh1t from other brands that just works.

If they got rid of that useless blue bit and put a pulley wheel there it would solve all problems,it's dumb

Yes my point exactly
it had a three pully one and they invented a new one for no real reason other than change marketing

I've got two older sails in my quiver that still use the three pulleys so I have to use my old extensions and a bar to pull the rope. It annoys me enough by now to realise that the new system is better.

Trust me, if you get used to the two pulleys with a matching extension you will probably agree that it is a great improvement. Rigging is faster and you don't need an aid to pull the downhaul.

I don't think this is driven by marketing but by windsurfers that want less hassle. The fact it needed a new extension obviously made this a no brainer for the brands

I'm a bit dumb so - why do you not need an aid to pull the downhaul? Now I mean..?three pulleys lined up with the extensions required less pulling force so how is it easier now? It's only faster to thread if well designed .. not easier to pull??

A very good windsurfer in FL, USA insisted for years on only using 4 pulleys with his wave sails. He felt that the additional purchase was a wash against the additional drag of the extra pulleys. This isn't a new thing. Having said that, I'm maintaining a neutral position on this whole debate. I do have an XT SDM extension and it's really a nice thing.


For those wanting to see a better way of threading the downhaul - it has to do with starting the downhaul from the hole by the cleat. (My Windsurfer LT appears to have the same OEM base and I took a look at it today. No pics, though.) There are two holes to lead the downhaul from - one on each side of the mast base. By default, since most of us use a three pulley system, we start from the hole on the far side in the pic.



Starting from there, you just go over the top pulley, through last base pulley, back through the bottom sail pulley and end through the mast base cleat. It's similar to the way we do three pulleys except you've skipped the whole first step

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Paducah said..
A very good windsurfer in FL, USA insisted for years on only using 4 pulleys with his wave sails. He felt that the additional purchase was a wash against the additional drag of the extra pulleys. This isn't a new thing. Having said that, I'm maintaining a neutral position on this whole debate. I do have an XT SDM extension and it's really a nice thing.


For those wanting to see a better way of threading the downhaul - it has to do with starting the downhaul from the hole by the cleat. (My Windsurfer LT appears to have the same OEM base and I took a look at it today. No pics, though.) There are two holes to lead the downhaul from - one on each side of the mast base. By default, since most of us use a three pulley system, we start from the hole on the far side in the pic.



Starting from there, you just go over the top pulley, through last base pulley, back through the bottom sail pulley and end through the mast base cleat. It's similar to the way we do three pulleys except you've skipped the whole first step

Noted and you are absolute right.My mistake cause I was in a hurry.
Thank you all guys for sharing your thoughts!

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Mark _australia said..
I'm a bit dumb so - why do you not need an aid to pull the downhaul? Now I mean..?three pulleys lined up with the extensions required less pulling force so how is it easier now? It's only faster to thread if well designed .. not easier to pull??

It is much easier to pull. Check how the Cyclops extensions work, they have a handle at the end which makes a huge difference.

TIL this is a thing

Yeah and maybe the best thing is it's simplicity compared to the Duotone extension with the ratchet.

I had to replace the rope recently and the Cyclops uses normal dyneema rope. Just had to figure out an elegant knot for the handle. Also make sure to use the same length otherwise pulling gets tricky.

Didn't plan on turning this in a sales pitch but happy to accept a free extension from Severne after this

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ptsf1111 said..
Yeah and maybe the best thing is it's simplicity compared to the Duotone extension with the ratchet.

I had to replace the rope recently and the Cyclops uses normal dyneema rope. Just had to figure out an elegant knot for the handle. Also make sure to use the same length otherwise pulling gets tricky.

Didn't plan on turning this in a sales pitch but happy to accept a free extension from Severne after this

The beauty of the ratchet is not getting a hernia rigging a race sail. Ratchet is probably overkill for most smaller sails though.For bigger, cammed sails, it shines.

A Nigerian prince will be emailing you shortly with details of your Severne sponsorship. Check your inbox.

I like new ideas. Even if those new ideas aren't perfect. That's now the industry improves. I like Duotone's idea, but don't like brands railroading you into buying their other products. That's what I am seeing when I see the blue colar above.

On another note, the locking colar with the o-ring, I brought my first RDM extension in 2008. This was an Aeron extension. Best idea ever. But, nobody else did it, and the idea seemed to disappear for over a decade. Then, Patrik started selling them (available from surfsail). I've ended up replacing all my colars with Patrik collars. O-rings might perish in 5 years, but no problem. Easy to get and replace.

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Paducah said..
TIL this is a thing

Like the look of this ! My ezzy sail pulleys are a different way to the serve pulley blocks though.
would that still work ?

mmm, maybe I'm missing something but doesn't the cyclops adopt the same 'quick loop' solution as the standard (non-ratchet, so simple!) duotone power.xt has for years now, what's more with two pulleys in either direction so that it accommodates both types of sail pulleys (those parallel to the sail like duotone, or perpendicular to the sail like severne)...?