MrCranky said..
For example, will a 2013 NP mast be compatible with older (and future) NP sails?

I haven't had any issues with the ones I've used, going from original X9's through to last X9 and now Fx100's (no consistency i my mast collection), they all rig ok, a couple of older sails(RSR Eiii) have benefited a bit from the new masts

boardsurfr said..
It can happen if a company has one main sail designer, and the person is replaced by someone else. I think both Gaastra and Maui Sails switched from hard top masts to a more mainstream bend curve in the last year or two.

What is "mainstream"? Constant-curve? I need to buy smaller sails (and mast... and boom). I have the same analysis-paralysis I had buying my first kit (all NP).

barn said..

MrCranky said..

boardsurfr said..
It can happen if a company has one main sail designer, and the person is replaced by someone else. I think both Gaastra and Maui Sails switched from hard top masts to a more mainstream bend curve in the last year or two.

What is "mainstream"? Constant-curve? I need to buy smaller sails (and mast... and boom). I have the same analysis-paralysis I had buying my first kit (all NP).

Constant curve masts are masts that are as bendy at the bottom as they are at the top.. Hard top masts are more bendy at the bottom, so if you want a flex top mast just turn your hard top upside down..

That makes sense, right team?

The circles are all over the place here:

www.unifiber.net/masts-selector

P.S.

Is there any science behind this? The NP sales spiel is that flextops spill gusts.

barn said..

MrCranky said..

boardsurfr said..
It can happen if a company has one main sail designer, and the person is replaced by someone else. I think both Gaastra and Maui Sails switched from hard top masts to a more mainstream bend curve in the last year or two.

What is "mainstream"? Constant-curve? I need to buy smaller sails (and mast... and boom). I have the same analysis-paralysis I had buying my first kit (all NP).

Constant curve masts are masts that are as bendy at the bottom as they are at the top.. Hard top masts are more bendy at the bottom, so if you want a flex top mast just turn your hard top upside down..

That makes sense, right team?

Ahhh...... not quite. The term 'Constant Curve' is quite misleading, as is the term 'Hard Top'. Almost all masts bend more at the top half than the bottom half.

Masts are classified by the difference in bend curve between the top half and the bottom when they are supported near the tip and base and a 30KG weight is suspended from the middle. The difference measured is expressed as a % difference. According to the original classification, 'Constant Curve' masts are those with a difference of between the top and bottom of between 10% and 12%, but the classification tend to be a bit broader than that in practice as 'Hard Top' is 6% and less and 'Flex Top' is 16% and greater.

There are very few sails today that call for 6% curve masts. Most of the so called 'Hard Top' sails are designed for masts around 8% to 10%.

Sails that call for 'Flex Top' masts in the 16% to 18% range are reasonably common, but I would say from my observations that most sails today are designed around masts in the 12% to 15% range. Masts in this range seem to suit the majority of sails expect those few designed for 'Hard Top' masts.

www.peterman.dk/mast-imcs-formulas.htm

Haggar said...
If you can believe the Unifiber Mast Selector Chart over various years it does show that some maufacturers have changed there masts characteristics. Example comparing 2011 and 2014 charts
- Ezzy is now slightly more flex top
- Loft is now slightly more flex top
- Maui Sails is now now in the Constant Curve range
- NP same

www.unifiber.net/masts-selector
www.unifiber.net/2014/mast-selector

Loft changed mast manufacturer and the newer masts were softer in the top. I think that was for 2013 onwards???

To the end of model year 2005, NP masts were CC. The earliest written NP reference I could find is the following:

NP 2002 Product Book, p12
The X3 carbon mast is a performance cross over mast with a bend curve suitable for any NeilPryde sails and compatible with most brands on the market (writer’s emphasis added).

Beginning model year 2006, NP introduced the Progressive Flex concept as described here:

NP 2006 Product Book, p71 Over the years NeilPryde has developed the “Progressive Flex” bend curveto truly maximise sail performance. …………It combines a stiffer bottom section with a lightweight and responsive top section. A stiffer bottom section is required for draft stability and power, while the lightweight and responsive top section provides release in the head of sail for control

Beginning model year 2013, NP introduced a mast system with 2 bend curves as described here:

NP 2013 Product Book, p45 The standout feature of NeilPryde masts is the unique flex and bend curve. Our shorter masts are close to ‘flex-top curve’ while longer masts are closer to ‘constant curve’ - this is why we call it the Progressive Flex and Bend Curve.

The writer asks “define a short mast and define a long mast”. For example, in his quiver of 370, 390, 400, 430, 460 and 490 masts, a long mast could be a 400 and up.

The writer comments on the 2 bend curves: On bigger masts (when fitted to Freeride/Freerace and Race sails?), the move back to CC contradicts the explanation in the 2006 book, “stiffer bottom section for draft stability”, where draft stability is on these types of sails.

In answer to the OP’s question “For example, will a 2013 NP mast be compatible with older (and future) NP sails”, the answer is a resounding DEFINITELY MAYBE, the key word being “compatible”. However, if the OP asks “Can I use any NP model year mast in any NP model year sail, the answer is YES.

Readers: feel free to analyse and comment on the above, ad finitum.

Thanks for the tips. So what's the "default" sail/mast brand these days? Severne? 'Cause it's Aussie like JP?

sailquik said..
AA change the mast in his sail 3 times after each successive run until he seemed satisfied. They all looked the same to me. I wish i was able to tell that fine a difference!

I think it sums it up pretty well, we (as average sailors) wont be able to feel the difference of a different mast in a sail. Best to stick to the same mast/sail brand.

Rob11 said..

sailquik said..
AA change the mast in his sail 3 times after each successive run until he seemed satisfied. They all looked the same to me. I wish i was able to tell that fine a difference!

I think it sums it up pretty well, we (as average sailors) wont be able to feel the difference of a different mast in a sail. Best to stick to the same mast/sail brand.

I disagree, stick a 3 or 4 y/o Maui Sails mast in a NP wavesail and see how you fare. You will feel it, would be horrible

^^^ doesn't say much about manufacturing consistency......

Rob11 said..

sailquik said..
AA change the mast in his sail 3 times after each successive run until he seemed satisfied. They all looked the same to me. I wish i was able to tell that fine a difference!

I think it sums it up pretty well, we (as average sailors) wont be able to feel the difference of a different mast in a sail. Best to stick to the same mast/sail brand.

I didn't say I can't tell the difference between different masts at all. I can, and that's why I sometimes change them. But the degree of difference A2 was looking for seemed to be at another level altogether.

Moby I have that article and they also found that some masts worked better then the recommended Sailmakers own brand. Not suggesting that you do that unless you had access to a lot of masts and had time to tune and test.

Why a 3okg weight ? Surely this does not replicate the force/downhaul(race sails) required to get a mast in a rigged state. Maybe I am just getting weaker in old age.

I once had a beach discussion with a visiting pro about the Avanti Cst made masts and asked that it must be a good thing to have consistent manufactured masts. He replied, that they preferred the variations in masts for sail tuning.

So which masts are used to develop sails, the R and D team sailors best masts or an off the rack mast ?

col5555 said..
Why a 3okg weight ? Surely this does not replicate the force/downhaul(race sails) required to get a mast in a rigged state. Maybe I am just getting weaker in old age.

I once had a beach discussion with a visiting pro about the Avanti Cst made masts and asked that it must be a good thing to have consistent manufactured masts. He replied, that they preferred the variations in masts for sail tuning.

So which masts are used to develop sails, the R and D team sailors best masts or an off the rack mast ?

It is irrelevant what the weight is, as it measures the deflection at 25%, 50% and 75% points along the length. It is one mast relative to another so you could use 50kg if you wanted.

It was WAY better than the previous MCS that was near on useless, but as a new improvement we'd love to see bend curve also. 430 /21 / 14% would be great to see!!!!