Where do i find these things? Any links? Im a computer dinosaur

www.shape3d.com/Products/Shape3dLite.aspx

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saltyheaven said..
www.shape3d.com/Products/Shape3dLite.aspx

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mr love said..

MikeyS said..
Why double inverted v rather than double concave? Experiment or do you know what the outcome is likely to be?

I could give you a whole lot of BS but yes basically an experiment. Logic if there is any....easier to build accurately, hand finishing a concave with varying radius accurately has to be difficult. Theoretically flat V panels have less surface area than the equivalent depth concave. The angle at the rail is less acute than with a concave so it should release better.
Cons....If I get one built I guess I will find out if there are any.

Thanks Martin

I can see no cons. I've been building mine as inverted vee for 6 years now, Did it for the same reason... easier to build than concaves.
The vee shims are easy to machine.
I think I saw that Patrick ? or RRD? were doing inverted vee also.

@ mr love,

If you have time and inclination do you think you could explain for me the 'curvature' (in blue) and 'directional' (in red) graphics for me?
I use them and can see how they change and get good information about the fairness of my curves but a clear and unambiguous understanding of how they are derived still eludes me...

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Te Hau said..

mr love said..

MikeyS said..
Why double inverted v rather than double concave? Experiment or do you know what the outcome is likely to be?

I could give you a whole lot of BS but yes basically an experiment. Logic if there is any....easier to build accurately, hand finishing a concave with varying radius accurately has to be difficult. Theoretically flat V panels have less surface area than the equivalent depth concave. The angle at the rail is less acute than with a concave so it should release better.
Cons....If I get one built I guess I will find out if there are any.

Thanks Martin

I can see no cons. I've been building mine as inverted vee for 6 years now, Did it for the same reason... easier to build than concaves.
The vee shims are easy to machine.
I think I saw that Patrick ? or RRD? were doing inverted vee also.

Cool...never seen a double done like that but good to know it works. Thanks

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mr love said..
Anyway, back to the original reason I posted. After using high end software to design my boards I was sceptical about the abilities of Shape3D however the more I have used it the more I learn and appreciate it. I think if anybody wants to have a dabble with board design they should download the free version( a bit limited though) and have a play.

Agreed Martin. Shape3D is really good on lots of different levels. So are other 3D programs.
Accurate volume is a big thing, we no longer need to have a volume tank.
Being able to overlay different rocker lines and outlines is way easier than digging through 10 years of monofilm templates.
You can hand shape accurately from printed templates or you can have a shape CNC'd and make any changes you want by hand.
It takes a little bit to learn and get competent on, but if a computer retard such as myself can learn it then anyone can.
With regards to CNC shaped boards or fins being better than hand shaped boards or fins or visa/versa , the argument is not even relevant.
It doesn't matter who or what shaped it. A good board is a good board and a **** board is a **** board.

Cheers, Hoops

JP uses inverted v on the Wave Slate series.

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LeeD said..
JP uses inverted v on the Wave Slate series.

OK...Doesn't mention it in the blurb so might have to take a look at one. Anyway good to know others had the same thought pattern as me and that it works.

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mr love said..

LeeD said..
JP uses inverted v on the Wave Slate series.

OK...Doesn't mention it in the blurb so might have to take a look at one. Anyway good to know others had the same thought pattern as me and that it works.

Bouke at Witchkraft Fuerteventura uses inverted v on some of his boards as well.

We made several concave V boards, surf, back in the 1960's, mostly around 7' x 20", and all caught waves and planed much sooner than normal flat to slight belly to V.
What ended our series [Wise Surfboards] was approaching winter and big, fast moving long period swells.

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saltyheaven said..
@ mr love,

If you have time and inclination do you think you could explain for me the 'curvature' (in blue) and 'directional' (in red) graphics for me?
I use them and can see how they change and get good information about the fairness of my curves but a clear and unambiguous understanding of how they are derived still eludes me...

I haven.t been using that tool...don't really like it. I prefer the curvature comb as it is the same as the one in Alias that I am used to working with...haven;t got the program open at the moment but think if you go to the Display menu then check Show Curvature All or something like that you get a different curvature comb. What it tells you is the rate of curvature...the taller the comb the more severe the curvature and also where you have inflections, so goes from a positive curve to a negative curve, you will see the comb cross from one side to the other when this happens. So for a rocker curve you would expect the combs to be very short through the tail where it is flatter maybe with some acceleration right in the tail if you are adding tail rocker then gently get taller as you work towards the front. I would normally start with some numbers at the tail, around 400 off, then 900, 1200..1500...1800 and nose. then it is just getting the smoothest curve I can through my desired points. The curvature combs will tell you if one of your points is out of whack as you will get a bump or inflection in the curve..

I would just try different things, watch what the curvature combs do then you will quickly learn what they are telling you. It is exactly the same as running a spline over a surface to see where the high and low points are.

Thanks for that, yeah I agree the comb gives much better feedback. I don't get the typical comb with my version.

After much searching I discovered this:




... which at least explains one of them. Unfortunately I don't have the 'display curvature along the curve' option, so I'm stuck with the along the x-axis display. Nevermind.

I didn't actually realise they had month long licence deals, might have to sprig for one of those at on opportune time.


Thanks!

Yes the curvature combs on the top image are the ones I prefer. I needed the Pro version to be able to model the double inverted V

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LeeD said..
A hammer made today works like a hammer made in 1918.

Actually ... it does not. You seem not to have never have seen or used a hammer made in 1918, or designed a hammer ...

Looks like I pushed the button on that one month licence... now, to learn the features I've never had access to before.

As I am sidelined with a torn MCL I thought I would finish it and work up some graphics.

Beautiful.... how would you do the graphics? Spraygun or vynil sticker?

The double inverted-V was also used by a local shaper here in south africa in the mid to late 80's. The boards were slalom and speed shapes and had quite a rep for being fast and had quite a following. I was young and just getting into it so I never had the opportunity to ride one unfortunately. I remember they reputedly seemed to handle chop really well.

When is the build starting?

Two years ago I had a go with shape 3d, drawing up some board shapes on the free version, as you can see had issues getting the nose and tail curves right, very frustrating not like having some sandpaper in your hands. I also couldn't work out how to add mast and fin boxes.

The pro version allows you to do more however the way the program "lofts" means there is always going to be some handwork especially at the nose unlike a high end Nurbs program like Rhino where you model any shape. I just overbuilt the nose a bit so the handwork is all material off.
The render was done off my nurbs surface which I took into Shape 3D as a ghost board. I still intend to do all my boards in Nurbs first and then bring them into Shape 3D to do the 'Milling surface"

I can't make the stoopid thing do anything.......

i'm embarking on another board design. previously i've used boardcad then printed templates for cutting and shaping.

this time round i'm looking to get blanks cnc cut which i'll hand finish and then polyester resin. not looking at long term built life but a series of fast built prototypes.

question is what output file type should i be trying to achieve for a cnc machine that uses aku shaper. i don't mind learning new software if needed but i'm liking boardcads comparison tools for rail shape and volume distribution.

There are times when a new hammer just isn't going to get the job done like the original.....