Did this thread disappear or was it just an illusion created by the kiters along with the fictional blonde sailor?

I think it was the Rocky 4 images that got this thread censored. That **** doesn't do the windsurfer stereotype any good

Thread was going nowhere but not sure it should've been deleted. Maybe admin could freeze a thread instead of deleting in some cases?

The same original thread topic is still up on the kitesurfing site btw.

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t2wheeler said..
Thread was going nowhere but not sure it should've been deleted. Maybe admin could freeze a thread instead of deleting in some cases?

The same original thread topic is still up on the kitesurfing site btw.

I think Admin may have made a mistake as the beacon of truth, art and controversy on the matter was the windsurfing variant of the thread. The content is not the same, perhaps Admin could reinstate the thread. Stalinist like revisionism of history is now being had at the hands of kiters slavishly adhering to their "anti-windsurfing" dogma enabled inadvertently I believe by Admin "accidentally" deleting the windsurfing thread. If it was intentional why was it deleted ?

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RichardG said..

t2wheeler said..
Thread was going nowhere but not sure it should've been deleted. Maybe admin could freeze a thread instead of deleting in some cases?

The same original thread topic is still up on the kitesurfing site btw.

I think Admin may have made a mistake as the beacon of truth, art and controversy on the matter was the windsurfing variant of the thread. The content is not the same, perhaps Admin could reinstate the thread. Stalinist like revisionism of history is now being had at the hands of kiters slavishly adhering to their "anti-windsurfing" dogma enabled inadvertently I believe by Admin "accidentally" deleting the windsurfing thread. If it was intentional why was it deleted ?

I originally posted both threads, and I have to say I was enjoying the more considered windsurfer version.
The fact it's now gone is probably good riddance, because whoever it was should now be familiar with his alleged transgression.

Move along. Nothing to see here anymore.

Well, at least until the next near-prang when we can all have a crack again ... ;).

Here are the rules to avoid collision in your state
www.transport.wa.gov.au/imarine/rules-of-the-road.asp
Remember that in the water all must turn right to avoid a collision opposite to our driving rules
RichardG you are too funny and paranoid

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IanR said..
Here are the rules to avoid collision in your state
www.transport.wa.gov.au/imarine/rules-of-the-road.asp
Remember that in the water all must turn right to avoid a collision opposite to our driving rules
RichardG you are too funny and paranoid

If a kite on starboard tack turns right, right in front of me, I'm gunna lose my head. (Literally) so, it's not as easy as that!

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Sparky said..

IanR said..
Here are the rules to avoid collision in your state
www.transport.wa.gov.au/imarine/rules-of-the-road.asp
Remember that in the water all must turn right to avoid a collision opposite to our driving rules
RichardG you are too funny and paranoid

If a kite on starboard tack turns right, right in front of me, I'm gunna lose my head. (Literally) so, it's not as easy as that!

If someone is going starboard tack at the most upwind angle possible, how on earth could they turn to the right? (not familiar with kite or sailboard, maybe I'm missing something).

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Sparky said...

If a kite on starboard tack turns right, right in front of me, I'm gunna lose my head. (Literally) so, it's not as easy as that!

Do you think we coat our lines in glass powder like they do in India when kite fighting.
It is easy to fly a kite over a sailboarder even when in close proximity.
No kiters want to hit anything with their lines.
If you don't like going under them then it's up to you to go far enough down wind that you don't

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alverstone said..

RichardG said..

t2wheeler said..
Thread was going nowhere but not sure it should've been deleted. Maybe admin could freeze a thread instead of deleting in some cases?

The same original thread topic is still up on the kitesurfing site btw.

I think Admin may have made a mistake as the beacon of truth, art and controversy on the matter was the windsurfing variant of the thread. The content is not the same, perhaps Admin could reinstate the thread. Stalinist like revisionism of history is now being had at the hands of kiters slavishly adhering to their "anti-windsurfing" dogma enabled inadvertently I believe by Admin "accidentally" deleting the windsurfing thread. If it was intentional why was it deleted ?

I originally posted both threads, and I have to say I was enjoying the more considered windsurfer version.
The fact it's now gone is probably good riddance, because whoever it was should now be familiar with his alleged transgression.

Move along. Nothing to see here anymore.

Well, at least until the next near-prang when we can all have a crack again ... ;).

Laurie, Please reinstate the old thread. Thanks

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RichardG said..

alverstone said..

RichardG said..

t2wheeler said..
Thread was going nowhere but not sure it should've been deleted. Maybe admin could freeze a thread instead of deleting in some cases?

The same original thread topic is still up on the kitesurfing site btw.

I think Admin may have made a mistake as the beacon of truth, art and controversy on the matter was the windsurfing variant of the thread. The content is not the same, perhaps Admin could reinstate the thread. Stalinist like revisionism of history is now being had at the hands of kiters slavishly adhering to their "anti-windsurfing" dogma enabled inadvertently I believe by Admin "accidentally" deleting the windsurfing thread. If it was intentional why was it deleted ?

I originally posted both threads, and I have to say I was enjoying the more considered windsurfer version.
The fact it's now gone is probably good riddance, because whoever it was should now be familiar with his alleged transgression.

Move along. Nothing to see here anymore.

Well, at least until the next near-prang when we can all have a crack again ... ;).

Laurie, Please reinstate the old thread. Thanks

Laurie, please also delete this one. Thanks.

I've passed downwind of a few kiters, I look up at their kite as I go under them, I smile, they give me the thumbs up, we have and awesome day. How hard can it be?

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IanR said..

Do you think we coat our lines in glass powder like they do in India when kite fighting.
It is easy to fly a kite over a sailboarder even when in close proximity.
No kiters want to hit anything with their lines.
If you don't like going under them then it's up to you to go far enough down wind that you don't

Are you related to "Ian K" ?. If so, I expect to see some vector geometry to support your argument

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IanR said..

It is easy to fly a kite over a sailboarder even when in close proximity.
No kiters want to hit anything with their lines.

I think that's the fundamental problem though. There are plenty of people in either camp I would classify as advanced beginners. IE they think they are in control of their gear but realistically that only applies in 80% of the time. Then add in not knowing rules around right of way and things go south and agro really quickly.The "not knowing who has right of way issue" reminds me a lot of driving around Australia these days. It seems a lot of people have almost no clue what the basic right of way rules are on public roads. I now assume everyone else is a liability and drive accordingly.I do the same on the water... unless I am sailing with people I know or have seen around before I assume they have no clue.That said I still don't understand why people find it so hard to look behind before they jibe.

Another mod deleted it, and after reading the pages of abuse and vitriol, I agree with their decision to remove it.

If the topic was going somewhere positive, helping, growing, learning, avoiding a repeat, then yeah - it would live on, but it was none of those things, it was removed.

Seabreeze is about getting along, making friends, sharing the stoke, getting better ... if folks want to be nasty to each other, then another forum they will need.


p.s. And sorry RichardG - I saw you put some effort into the topic.

Damn I went away for two days and I missed it all. Disappointed

Now I know who "angry windsurfer" is, and the whole story from somebody else who was there I think the kiters need to stay downwind.
The windsurfers stay upwind and if the imaginary line between the two areas is considered to be a 50m wide no mans land, there will be zero conflict.

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laurie said..
Seabreeze is about getting along, making friends, sharing the stoke, getting better ... if folks want to be nasty to each other, then another forum they will need.

Like the kite forum

BTW can you add some ground rules to the sticky posts? Point 1 should read:1) Windsurfer, Kiteboarder, rubber ducky rider ... look over your shoulder before you jibe!!!

Don't sit just behind and down wind of someone, eventually they have to jibe, whether they look or not your still going to be in thier way.

I don't look, so don't be there! I've sailed for miles waiting for people to get out of the jibing space.

I can't see an easy fix. The two sports conflict in dynamics.
A 50 meter no go zone sounds good , but , in a tight space like a speed or desirable area we will get close . In a open area that is a good idea but plenty of times I'm staring at a kiter at full speed. To pass closely it would make sense for me ( poler ) to go upwind and we could safely get away with a close pass. But , that would give me the cheekiness to go faster downwind when I like making me a righteous dick and pushing the kiter deep downwind ( unfair ).
Fix no 1 ... ban kitesurfing , ( ease up I'm joking )
fix no 2 .... fact , kiting is way more dangerous to others compared to windsurfers due to the area of dangerous lines involved. I'm ok with the idea of kiting , I'm thinking of giving it a go. We would all get upset if jetskiers got in our way because of the danger factor. And for the same reason I think kiter should stay downwind of sailers.
Ok start the hatin ...

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alverstone said..

RichardG said..

t2wheeler said..
Thread was going nowhere but not sure it should've been deleted. Maybe admin could freeze a thread instead of deleting in some cases?

The same original thread topic is still up on the kitesurfing site btw.

I think Admin may have made a mistake as the beacon of truth, art and controversy on the matter was the windsurfing variant of the thread. The content is not the same, perhaps Admin could reinstate the thread. Stalinist like revisionism of history is now being had at the hands of kiters slavishly adhering to their "anti-windsurfing" dogma enabled inadvertently I believe by Admin "accidentally" deleting the windsurfing thread. If it was intentional why was it deleted ?

I originally posted both threads, and I have to say I was enjoying the more considered windsurfer version.
The fact it's now gone is probably good riddance, because whoever it was should now be familiar with his alleged transgression.

Move along. Nothing to see here anymore.

Well, at least until the next near-prang when we can all have a crack again ... ;).

Was the windsurfer found to be at fault ?

Is it just that there are more kitesurfers alleging he was at fault.

The fact there was a collision and contact does not mean the windsurfer is at fault, notwithstanding he had right of way anyway.

It is easy for kiters to make allegations but that does not make the windsurfer at fault even though it has been alleged that he was furious, after the incident, for being caught in kiters lines. That reaction is not surprising as no one would like to be in that dangerous and unsafe situation.

Thanks for your thoughts.

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laurie said..
Another mod deleted it, and after reading the pages of abuse and vitriol, I agree with their decision to remove it.

If the topic was going somewhere positive, helping, growing, learning, avoiding a repeat, then yeah - it would live on, but it was none of those things, it was removed.

Seabreeze is about getting along, making friends, sharing the stoke, getting better ... if folks want to be nasty to each other, then another forum they will need.


p.s. And sorry RichardG - I saw you put some effort into the topic.

Thanks Laurie, perhaps the moderator could consider to redact the offensive language in the thread next time and take disciplinary action against those infringers rather than stifling genuine debate, in the public interest about an important safety issue on the water. I did note the collision at Dutchies "kiting" thread was not deleted, which appears to me to contain some offensive remarks itself.

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DunkO said..
Don't sit just behind and down wind of someone, eventually they have to jibe, whether they look or not your still going to be in thier way.

I don't look, so don't be there! I've sailed for miles waiting for people to get out of the jibing space.

Doesn't work at some spots....... especially if you have to push hard upwind after a wave ride and the dude jussst in front and slightly upwind doesn't care about what u r doing, or is slower. Kiters are often both as they don't realise how hard we have to push upwind sometimes. You will get closer and closer to his "gybe spot" so he should look.

The problem at Dutchies is sometimes the kiter is just downwind of you, and they go into 3mm of water to turn in front of all the beachgoers to show off, by then a windsurfer is on the rocks...... so if they are just downwind of you, you can't gybe. Choices are tack, or stand on the tail stop planing and gybe, then sink.

Revert to - be considerate.

Like those people you politely follow in slightly upwind, waiting for them to gybe so you can follow them around... and then just before the beach, they tack. What? Are we riding Windrush Clubmans these days.

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Mark _australia said..
Damn I went away for two days and I missed it all. Disappointed

Now I know who "angry windsurfer" is, and the whole story from somebody else who was there I think the kiters need to stay downwind.
The windsurfers stay upwind and if the imaginary line between the two areas is considered to be a 50m wide no mans land, there will be zero conflict.

Hi Mark
What a surprise the solution is segregation what you have been campaigning for for years. Possibly you could expound further.

So now that you have conclude your "unbiased" investigation you could let us all know what happened. Somehow I feel if the Kiter had been completely in the wrong you would have been shouting it from the roof top.

The current agreement with waksa about Dutchies at best could been considered a gentlemen's Agreement.
Unfortunatly when people behaving in a aggressive manner and start try to force ROW with out understanding it fully all agreements tend to go out the window.

The ROW rules work and have done for many years all over the world but in one or two places sailboarders feel then need for special dispensation because of there irrational fears. I bet every time a plane flys over you guys are ducking for cover because they also fall out of the Sky

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IanR said..

Mark _australia said..
Damn I went away for two days and I missed it all. Disappointed

Now I know who "angry windsurfer" is, and the whole story from somebody else who was there I think the kiters need to stay downwind.
The windsurfers stay upwind and if the imaginary line between the two areas is considered to be a 50m wide no mans land, there will be zero conflict.

Hi Mark
What a surprise the solution is segregation what you have been campaigning for for years. Possibly you could expound further.

So now that you have conclude your "unbiased" investigation you could let us all know what happened. Somehow I feel if the Kiter had been completely in the wrong you would have been shouting it from the roof top.

The current agreement with waksa about Dutchies at best could been considered a gentlemen's Agreement.
Unfortunatly when people behaving in a aggressive manner and start try to force ROW with out understanding it fully all agreements tend to go out the window.

The ROW rules work and have done for many years all over the world but in one or two places sailboarders feel then need for special dispensation because of there irrational fears. I bet every time a plane flys over you guys are ducking for cover because they also fall out of the Sky

You are making it sound like Dutchies is almost the only place in the world with segregation between Kiters and Windsurfers but I have seen it in many locations around the globe. Last time I was in New Cal the kiters and windsurfers had their own areas and most seemed to have no problems complying. When there is a lot of people on the water it seems to be a good solution.

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IanR said..

Mark _australia said..
Damn I went away for two days and I missed it all. Disappointed

Now I know who "angry windsurfer" is, and the whole story from somebody else who was there I think the kiters need to stay downwind.
The windsurfers stay upwind and if the imaginary line between the two areas is considered to be a 50m wide no mans land, there will be zero conflict.

Hi Mark
What a surprise the solution is segregation what you have been campaigning for for years. Possibly you could expound further.

So now that you have conclude your "unbiased" investigation you could let us all know what happened. Somehow I feel if the Kiter had been completely in the wrong you would have been shouting it from the roof top.

The current agreement with waksa about Dutchies at best could been considered a gentlemen's Agreement.
Unfortunatly when people behaving in a aggressive manner and start try to force ROW with out understanding it fully all agreements tend to go out the window.

The ROW rules work and have done for many years all over the world but in one or two places sailboarders feel then need for special dispensation because of there irrational fears. I bet every time a plane flys over you guys are ducking for cover because they also fall out of the Sky

With all due respect IanR, I don't believe your views reflect real world experience at Dutchies.
There is generally a mutual respect for all and avoiding dangerous situations is easy and in everyone's best interests. The notion of polite segregation is preferable for everyone. The idea of kites being downwind as much as possible is common sense, not fear.

I don't think there is need for segregation at Dutchies. Realistically you often get a wave further North when it's flat near the groyne. Due to the shallow reef it's a pretty much a no go zone for windsurfers anyway.

Let's not destroy the fun for everyone just because of a few people that have issues. Perhaps next time you see someone doing the wrong thing (kiteboarder and windsurfer) simply talk to them in a calm manner and point out what they could do better to be safer.

If that doesn't work perhaps that person needs to do their sport somewhere else.

Australia has already become a nanny state. Let's not encourage our clowns in politics to load up even more laws and regulations.

The "elephant in the room" is that these collisions and near collisions are happening more often than is being reported as per my experience that I outlined in the deleted thread. I had no injuries from my incident other than a bit of grazing on my arm from the kite lines and a sore throat from verballing the kiter whose ambitions far outstripped his ability - 100% kiter fault when he crashed his kite while jump gybing 25m from shore as I was dogging out through the rocks.

A complete "no go zone" for kiters at the keyhole next to the groyne and out about 50m is part of the answer and I submitted that when council was looking at the issues. The next time the council looks at the issue I don't think they will be as relaxed about letting us self-regulate.

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Sparky said..

IanR said..

Mark _australia said..
Damn I went away for two days and I missed it all. Disappointed

Now I know who "angry windsurfer" is, and the whole story from somebody else who was there I think the kiters need to stay downwind.
The windsurfers stay upwind and if the imaginary line between the two areas is considered to be a 50m wide no mans land, there will be zero conflict.

Hi Mark
What a surprise the solution is segregation what you have been campaigning for for years. Possibly you could expound further.

So now that you have conclude your "unbiased" investigation you could let us all know what happened. Somehow I feel if the Kiter had been completely in the wrong you would have been shouting it from the roof top.

The current agreement with waksa about Dutchies at best could been considered a gentlemen's Agreement.
Unfortunatly when people behaving in a aggressive manner and start try to force ROW with out understanding it fully all agreements tend to go out the window.

The ROW rules work and have done for many years all over the world but in one or two places sailboarders feel then need for special dispensation because of there irrational fears. I bet every time a plane flys over you guys are ducking for cover because they also fall out of the Sky

With all due respect IanR, I don't believe your views reflect real world experience at Dutchies.
There is generally a mutual respect for all and avoiding dangerous situations is easy and in everyone's best interests. The notion of polite segregation is preferable for everyone. The idea of kites being downwind as much as possible is common sense, not fear.

Well he's a kiter, they wear boardshorts over their wetsuits..of course they're detached from reality.. :P

man oh man - long story for one incident
next thing you know there will be police or ambulance involved
water access will be monitored, etc

on the streets when busy, it is fingers and horns
the rules of the roads have been there longer than windsurf and kites
when the water gets "crowded" , someone will lose their cool

people just CANNOT get along

here the trick is - get away from shore quickly
further out - it's less crowded and amiable
just more boats to deal with

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IanR said..

Hi Mark What a surprise the solution is segregation what you have been campaigning for for years. Possibly you could expound further.

I have not "been campaigning for for years"
Dutchies has a segregation agreement and has done for many years. WAKSA "enforce" it (sort of) and you have to be an ASKA or WAKSA member to kite there supposedly.

So no I am not campaigning - rather, reminding.

EDIT: OTOH yeah I am a fan of segregation IF one group is not disadvantaged. As long as there is still a wave there, or flatwater there, or whatever the local kiters seek, it simply makes sense for them to be separate and even better downwind. Coronation beach where I sail a lot is a classic example. With big flatwater expanse there are a lot of beginners to intermediate seeking the inside, lots of experts seeing the waves out the back. To have a downed beginners kite go through that, (when in Jan this year i counted 50 windsurfers and 30 kiters in only 300m of beach,) would be a disaster. So kites downwind and they are happy, so are we. No agro.
Seems some of you blokes come from an area with 10 kiters and 3 windsurfers taking turns on a point break and u all used to surf there for years before windsports. Its not like that here....
Dutchies has the added complication of a dangerous cliff, nearby road, a narrow keyhole windsurfers can use in their area, ocean paddlers and swimmers even when its 30kn etc etc. Thus the segregation agreement, which really is just plain commonsense to avoid conflict.