Over here in NZ there is talk of a 30% increase in price for boards from Cobra. Has anyone else heard this???
4k+ for a new board seems a bit much for the average punter.....

only distributors could make the price of boards go to 4k, 30% onto cobra would make the boards cost $150 more!!!!!!!

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timm said...
Over here in NZ there is talk of a 30% increase in price for boards from Cobra. Has anyone else heard this???
4k+ for a new board seems a bit much for the average punter.....

Support your local and go see James and buy a CarbonArt

I suppose that we could cut prices by carving a log of wood with an axe. A broomstick for a mast, sole of a shoe for the universal. Curtains make cheap sails. Prices are what they are unfortunately. Volume sales bring them down but that is unlikely in a niche sport like windsurfing. Somehow you can't can't compete with the simplicity of surfing...a small slab of plastic and some wax. Then again, think about how long the ride on a wave lasts for. A few seconds of joy punctuated by another lengthy wait for the perfect swell. Not to mention the jostling, drop-ins and verbal abuse. On the other hand, the sport of windsurfing offers hours of continuous riding, punctuated only by rest periods for food and a friendly chat with other riders. Worth it weight in gold, a very expensive board or just a cheap one you bought second hand on Seabreeze. Thankfully, many do buy expensive new boards so that I can do the latter.

Great post MarkSSC!

Windsurfing has always been and will probably always be an expensive sport. I worked in a sail factory(Wild Winds), for work experience as a teenager and have attempted shaping/glassing many boards. Its a ton of very skilled work! And the materials aren't cheap either.

However after a long break(20 years), and getting back into the sport I'm amazed at how much cheap second hand gear is out there. It can be a reasonably cheap sport as long as you don't need the latest and greatest.

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pjmills said..
the greed of those profiting from sailing is amazing
you could make boards in australia and sell them direct alot cheaper than boards being made in a third world country and then being sold here.......how does that work.......
the price of windsurfing is the major reason the sport isnt enjoyed by more.,
the juniors are surfing at ballina this week, about 600 competitors, culled from thousands of juniors
ummmmm how many juniors at the national titles for windsurfing this yr????

sport is all but dead, a price increase will be a good thing........
maybe next yr, the nationals could be held in an exclusive volcano to help make it even more accessible than green island

Sailing has always been an expensive sport but I think the price of a Bic Techno compares pretty favourably with an Optimist sailing boat....good second hand gear is cheaper than it has ever been....Windsurfing is always going to be a niche sport....that's a good thing IMHO.

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MarkSSC said..
I suppose that we could cut prices by carving a log of wood with an axe. A broomstick for a mast, sole of a shoe for the universal. Curtains make cheap sails. Prices are what they are unfortunately. Volume sales bring them down but that is unlikely in a niche sport like windsurfing. Somehow you can't can't compete with the simplicity of surfing...a small slab of plastic and some wax. Then again, think about how long the ride on a wave lasts for. A few seconds of joy punctuated by another lengthy wait for the perfect swell. Not to mention the jostling, drop-ins and verbal abuse. On the other hand, the sport of windsurfing offers hours of continuous riding, punctuated only by rest periods for food and a friendly chat with other riders. Worth it weight in gold, a very expensive board or just a cheap one you bought second hand on Seabreeze. Thankfully, many do buy expensive new boards so that I can do the latter.

I'd like to dispute this, apparently curtains are not that cheap. Last time I wiped my nose on the curtains, She told me how much they cost along with some other lengthy diatribe that faded the more she went on...But the rest, yes, I agree

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kato said..

timm said...
Over here in NZ there is talk of a 30% increase in price for boards from Cobra. Has anyone else heard this???
4k+ for a new board seems a bit much for the average punter.....

Support your local and go see James and buy a CarbonArt

I was thinking the same thing

Carbon art also have a tuttle box on their freeride boards, something that has not been adopted by the euros yet. $1995.00 in New Zealand, freight free....

Windsurfing might be a niche sport in Australia but its pretty big in many European countries.

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pepe47 said..
Carbon art also have a tuttle box on their freeride boards, something that has not been adopted by the euros yet. $1995.00 in New Zealand, freight free....

Thanks Pepe, I have delt with James previously and will try and give him a ring this arvo re pricing.
Still not sure how prices can just go up 30% though (if in fact they are)
If it is the dollar, do mast, booms, sails etc go up as well?
Is it just Cobra having a monoply on our sport?
Previously have had some good boards and the odd dud from Cobra, but 4k is a big gamble if a handbuilt board is half the price
Anyone know what a new Stone or Nude is worth?

Not sure about the rumours timm, but if a board costs say $1000.00 to make (figure pulled out of the air) the increase will only make it 1300, and I'm sure the retailers will try and absorb some financial damage. To try and pass on the entire increase wouldn't go down well with the punters, which would make sense if a retailer relies on volume and not individual sales. But, you do get the cowboys..
I'd talk to James as you said, he may be able to shed some light on the subject.

Surfing's as hard or harder than windsurfing.
I windsurfed for a few years to get fairly good. I've surfed my whole life and am still crap,

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kato said..

timm said...
Over here in NZ there is talk of a 30% increase in price for boards from Cobra. Has anyone else heard this???
4k+ for a new board seems a bit much for the average punter.....

Support your local and go see James and buy a CarbonArt

My next board will be a CA. They're well priced, not mass-manufactured, and I've never heard a bad word spoken about them.

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DunkO said..
Surfing's as hard or harder than windsurfing.
I windsurfed for a few years to get fairly good. I've surfed my whole life and am still crap,

I recon surfing and windsurfing are equally as hard. To get to an intermediate level at surfing takes years- and some natural talent. To get good (sponsored, compete with good results) is not possible without some natural gifts. Seems the same with sailing. Many will reach an intermediate level, very few are really good. Though one sport you spend way less time dangling with the sharks...

As for sailboard prices- new is simply too dear for me, second hand is the only option.

I've heard a board leaves Cobra at just under $700. The importer then puts his mark up on as a percentage plus GST then the shop puts his mark up percentage on plus gst, plus shipping costs from Thailand to Australia and from importer to shops. Plus shipping agent fees.

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FINMEISTER said..
plus GST then the shop puts his mark up percentage on plus gst,

Tax on Tax

That couldn't happen

Don't forget Import Duty, another 5%


If it is that easy someone would be doing it

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FINMEISTER said..
I've heard a board leaves Cobra at just under $700.

OK, but how many boards do they need to purchase in order to achieve that price ?
What's the minimum order quota required to secure that price ?
Seems cheap until you times it by 1000 to 2000 units or so...

Yep. I think the business model for the small craftsman, manufacturer is starting to look better again like in the surfboard industry.

Now, finding a great craftsman is not as easy as it sounds. Many gave up making windsurfers in the late '90's and 2000's when the factory mass produced boards started flooding into the country. The local windsurfing scene also now has a lot less numerous base to support a local board maker who has to work all year 'round to make a living.

But I firmly believe that the door is opening again with the help of CAD design and CNC shaping. It just needs people who are super keen and willing to wallow in resins and foam!

On the other had, look at the massive range (= massive variety of choice) that companies like Starboard offer! All that R&D has to be paid for somehow. Also look at the vast amounts of $ they spend on supporting race teams and other promotional activities. For a local manufacturer to survive and prosper he would need a pretty good team of support sailors to help validate his designs and promote his products. Even the local surfboard shaper here, who is a one man band, supports the local hot kids and influential riders with 'team' deals. It's not just all about the cost of production.

If only I could still get Polyurethane windsurfing blanks I would be still making my own smaller boards. For small high wind boards, where super light weight is not such an issue (and it's not that much of an issue in medium sized slalom boards, despite what the big money hype want's to tell you), I am still convinced that Polyurethane/Polyester construction has some big advantages.

Firstly boards are already made in China the price is more or less the same as boards from cobra or any other manufacturers. Secondly most windsurfing sails are made in China....if it was cheaper to do so they would be cheaper NP would suggest otherwise.

Australia has a free trade agreement with Thailand.

Vietnam seems to be a place boards are increasingly going to be sourced from. (no free trade agreement with Australia)

Most importantly the price boards are bought by retailers is a long way from the price the boards are sold by cobra. There are a few people between cobra and the shop getting their cut.

The problem Australia has it is a very small market spread over a very large area so you do not gain the economies of scale you do in larger more condensed areas.

It is very hard to make money from windsurfing in Australia....if it was easy there would be lots of shops however shops are closing down or spreading into other water sports areas to keep up cash flow.


My experience of the windsurfing industry in Australia is it is a very closed shop. It is very hard for a shop to access certain brands as they are blocked by others. If you don't sell SUP's some manufacturers will not sell to you!

Ask yourself why some manufacturers who make boards do not import those boards into Australia but just import SUP. The answer is simple there is a declining market in Australia for windsurfing boards and there is no money to be made from bringing them in.

Prices are going up from the manufacturers and the Australia $ is falling the volumes of stock coming into Australia are falling this means the prices will go up.


I have been running a windsurfing shop for 4 years. I do not make money and I do not even pay myself! I do not ever expect to make money from windsurfing so anybody out there who thinks that retails are making all the money and screwing windsurfers over please point me in the right direction because I am not seeing any of that money.

25 years ago a good mylar wavesail cost around $600 RRP. Today it is say $900.

Back then the "new" one design cost about $1200 . Today it is about $1900.

A red rip curl wave mast was $200. Today a basic 40% carbon mast is around $350.

Boards may be an exception, but the cost of some items is not that much different relatively speaking if you compare the same technology.

If most people were offered a choice between a generic $350 mast and $700 full carbon mast, (or a $1900 one design and a $5000 hi performance kit) I know what most people would choose.

Clarence

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clarence said..
25 years ago a good mylar wavesail cost around $600 RRP. Today it is say $900.

Back then the "new" one design cost about $1200 . Today it is about $1900.

A red rip curl wave mast was $200. Today a basic 40% carbon mast is around $350.

Boards may be an exception, but the cost of some items is not that much different relatively speaking if you compare the same technology.

If most people were offered a choice between a generic $350 mast and $700 full carbon mast, (or a $1900 one design and a $5000 hi performance kit) I know what most people would choose.

Clarence

If people think it costs to much, than it costs to much.

I think wave kit is a bit pricey, for sails and boards, as most of that stuff has a pretty high chance of only surviving one season, so no resale, and say you buy a $1000 sail wipe out and then it's gone, well that's going to stop you from hitting lips, or a board, costing $2800 that absorbs water like it's a sponge, and once you get the water in it, it has a high chance of delaminating, you might not be having as much fun as you could be because you don't want to damage your $2800 board.

The price is inhibitive to new comers also, I remember going through so much equipment back in the day, and I was so broke, I actually went and got a credit card with a $10000 limit on it just to buy equipment, and I had that debt for about 6 years.

If you are a grom and you see windsurfing and think that looks cool i;ll give it a go, then you see that a cheap piece of wave kit is going to set you back 3K, you would probably go, hmmm i'll just buy a new surfboard for $800 and stick with that, infact i might buy 2 and a ticket to indo.

I have been in the windsurfing retail for over 30 years (owned my own shop for more than 10 years) . I can remember in the early 90's Mistral Energizers new where $2000 .... My parents bought a new Holden commodore for $20,000 that year from memory makes you think boards have not really gone up . For those of you out there that think that retailers make a huge profit come and visit my shop in winter where you might not see a customers for days but I still pay rent , power etc . In my case I run a IT business in the mornings before work so I can keep the shop going through the whole season .. Sure if you ever sell a board for the RRP price you make good money , but then end of season when you still have stock left that you discount your margin gets eroded . I don't do kites cause I am not into it but I do sell sups because its great to do when there is no wind ... But unlike many shops I will always put windsurfing first because I love the sport.
Its a funny world I constantly get asked especially online is that "my best price". and it make me think when do you ever ask your doctor or plumber or your local super market is that your best price ....
We all do deals for our regular customers that's the way the industry works , if someone is a loyal customer I do my best to look after them.

At the end of the day I just want to make a living like anybody else and fill my shop with lots of cool gear because windsurfing is the best sport in the world and I will own my shop until I forget where it is cause I have dementia

Well said Simon, spot on.

This line below is so true that it should be the starting point with "all" outlets when negotiating with Cobra.
bc makes the point about cost relative to years back, however manufacturing has out-run those days and far cheaper now, than back then.
The manufacture along with the brand names are the lynch pin in all this. The outlets are hogtied, and cant make a move unless they want to upset the start point being Cobra and other board manufacturing industries.
The big brand names are the second key in the puzzle, as its their gear coming out of the manufacture doors, then onto the shop front sellers.

fancy being able to buy a custom made board from NZ cheaper than boards mass produced in a third world country....

So lets put all that for the end user in perspective.
New board, say $3500
New mast, say $500
New sails x 2 say $700 each = $1400
Grand total $5400.
Chuck in say another $1000 for boom fins and a few items.
So now its $6400 just as a start point for new kit.
Look at 2nd hand, so halve that for instance, its now $3200.


To take this further,
Life of new gear until its traded, maybe four years. That's 52 weekend per year, at best, but we all know its more like, 25 weekends at best taking into account seasonal and other commitments. About $64 per week to own and use. Worse if you don't use it for those available 25 weekends a year.
And one wonders why its prohibitive for a lot of people, especially those who don't have a lot of coin to throw around.
No wonder surfing is so popular, cheap to purchase, many local shapers for the locals in each state, and a huge media frontage to support the industry.
Windsurfing can only dream and wonder how good it "could" be to have such media frontage year in year out.

PJ, if you're so bummed out and stressed about it, why don't you stop doing it?

If you buy a new car say for 20K,drive it for 6 months,reckon you will still get around 15K for it. Around 12-13K when its 2 years old.

A second hand sail that has been used ( 6 months old) you would be lucky to get half price. A bit more for a second hand board if you are lucky enough to find a buyer.

If 2 years old reckon around 35-40 percent of retail price for a second hand board.

Gear around 2010-12 is still close to state of the art in terms of performance and mostly is still in top condition due to most only sailing on the occasional weekend.

Do not know of another sport where the second hand market is so cheap / depressed.

We should be thankful to all those aristocrats out there that buy new.

Buy to sail it not sell it?
If I buy new gear then sell it in good condition I wonder why I bought it at all.

you only complain about the price of gear till you try making it yourself

Sounds like a lot of grumpy people who are in need of a good sail.
Lots of new people joining in at our spot.
Don't know too many in the industry that are making lots of cash, most are just paying the bills and hoping it gets better next year.
You can jump up and down and whinge about the price of the fish or get off ya bum ,get involved and share the stoke.

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bc said..
I have been in the windsurfing retail for over 30 years (owned my own shop for more than 10 years) . I can remember in the early 90's Mistral Energizers new where $2000 .... My parents bought a new Holden commodore for $20,000 that year from memory makes you think boards have not really gone up . For those of you out there that think that retailers make a huge profit come and visit my shop in winter where you might not see a customers for days but I still pay rent , power etc . In my case I run a IT business in the mornings before work so I can keep the shop going through the whole season .. Sure if you ever sell a board for the RRP price you make good money , but then end of season when you still have stock left that you discount your margin gets eroded . I don't do kites cause I am not into it but I do sell sups because its great to do when there is no wind ... But unlike many shops I will always put windsurfing first because I love the sport.
Its a funny world I constantly get asked especially online is that "my best price". and it make me think when do you ever ask your doctor or plumber or your local super market is that your best price ....
We all do deals for our regular customers that's the way the industry works , if someone is a loyal customer I do my best to look after them.

At the end of the day I just want to make a living like anybody else and fill my shop with lots of cool gear because windsurfing is the best sport in the world and I will own my shop until I forget where it is cause I have dementia

Well said.