So after years of riding hard edged slalom boards I have come to the conclusion I lack the size, weight and skill to fully maximise small and medium sized slalom board to there full potential in rough water.
I am now considering switching to freerace style of boards like the 2017 Futura or RRD firestorm (must have tuttle box)
Looking for input from riders who may have also switched and what you found.

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col5555 said..
So after years of riding hard edged slalom boards I have come to the conclusion I lack the size, weight and skill to fully maximise small and medium sized slalom board to there full potential in rough water.
I am now considering switching to freerace style of boards like the 2017 Futura or RRD firestorm (must have tuttle box)
Looking for input from riders who may have also switched and what you found.

Also JP Super Sport is now with tuttle box

Col, thats a really interesting question and I reckon you going to get a very large range of responses.
I guess the first question to ask is whats you goal ? GPS or just to Freeride ?

I rode iSonics many years ago in our local bay, and the changed to Futuras, riding mainly a Futura 111 for about 4 years in open bay waters. The board was superb and only replaced recently due to ageing condition of the board. For better upwind performance and chop handling I got a Patrik 110 Slalom and after a few months dialling in I have to say that it beats the Futura hands down in chop handling, comfort and all round performance in rough conditions. The only concern I have about using a slalom boards compared to other types in really rough conditions is longevity. For my mid range board I use a JP FSW 101 which is actually surprising pretty quick and fun to ride.

Comparing smaller boards, I changed from a Futura 93 to an older model Falcon 89 and comparing both on lakes in 20 to 30 knots I prefer the Falcon which also has great control and is a lot of fun to ride. I haven't ridden the Falcon 89 in the bay much, but will do a little I expect in the future, but I would expect to use a Freeride or FSW board in these conditions most of the time for comfort and longevity I think. I like the look of some of the new Freeride boards like Fanatic Blast and the Severne Fox and would consider these in the future.

Re fins, I had been using C3 Venoms and I am also using Drake DW, both of these have a soft feel and are forgiving.

Not sure if I have helped at all but thats just my experience of changing, I guess I love both, maybe about what model of which brand you choose, and getting it tuned to your sailing style. ** my weight is between 70 and 75 kg

Came to the same conclusion for small/medium slalom boards. Futuras are still pretty racy though. I've got a 101, but I mainly only use it in flat water now. If you're going to change go the full distance and get a free ride board with a power box fin. I find a Tabou Rocket is noticeably easier than a Futura in the rough stuff.

Carbon Art make a free ride board with a tuttle box. Anyone else?

get back to your Patrik !

Tabou speedster is another good option, they are controlled, comfortable, very quick and provide a little more spark than a softer free ride option.

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col5555 said..
So after years of riding hard edged slalom boards I have come to the conclusion I lack the size, weight and skill to fully maximise small and medium sized slalom board to there full potential in rough water.
I am now considering switching to freerace style of boards like the 2017 Futura or RRD firestorm (must have tuttle box)
Looking for input from riders who may have also switched and what you found.

In rough water e.g. off Majestic's you might find a Freeride or even a fast FSW like the Kode (with a decent fin) just as fast as a slalom - and more fun as jumps and cranking turns become possible.

Not sure you will notice a big difference going from slalom to Freerace boards. I found the Futura pretty similar to Isonics and Mistrals.

I wouldn't let the fin-box dictate my board choice, it's easy to change fins or fin-boxes.

Another big benefit of changing from slalom to freeride/FSW is that blasting at Leighton becomes more inviting and I reckon that's where you'll have the most fun in rough water. JJ

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col5555 said..
So after years of riding hard edged slalom boards I have come to the conclusion I lack the size, weight and skill to fully maximise small and medium sized slalom board to there full potential in rough water.
I am now considering switching to freerace style of boards like the 2017 Futura or RRD firestorm (must have tuttle box)
Looking for input from riders who may have also switched and what you found.

After years of wrestling with a 2013 I-Sonic 110, I concluded the board was designed for AB’s bigger brother. It gave a harsh ride, loosened teeth and internal organs would be shuffled around. Fatigue was also an issue. I was running Overdrives on the board.

Recently tried running the 110 with an NCX 6.5. The difference is remarkable. Chop impacts are softer or more prolonged by the sails shock absorbing properties. Getting lifted onto the balls of my feet occurs less and is easier to recover from. Fatigue is not an issue and I am spending more time on the water.

I’m now excited about rigging up the I-Sonic and not too interested in working. Hence this post. Bring on summer.

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azymuth said..

col5555 said..
So after years of riding hard edged slalom boards I have come to the conclusion I lack the size, weight and skill to fully maximise small and medium sized slalom board to there full potential in rough water.
I am now considering switching to freerace style of boards like the 2017 Futura or RRD firestorm (must have tuttle box)
Looking for input from riders who may have also switched and what you found.

In rough water e.g. off Majestic's you might find a Freeride or even a fast FSW like the Kode (with a decent fin) just as fast as a slalom - and more fun as jumps and cranking turns become possible.

Not sure you will notice a big difference going from slalom to Freerace boards. I found the Futura pretty similar to Isonics and Mistrals.

I wouldn't let the fin-box dictate my board choice, it's easy to change fins or fin-boxes.

Another big benefit of changing from slalom to freeride/FSW is that blasting at Leighton becomes more inviting and I reckon that's where you'll have the most fun in rough water. JJ

+1 If you like sailing fast in open, rough waters change to an FSW with a good fin like an S1 or MFC and get into a freer style of sailing. You can still load up with fast sail and charge down waves and bend into turns just about as fast as you want with out the bone jarring, technical ride of a slalom board.You'll make heaps more gybes too. Slalom boards are designed to win races about 5 minutes long. They aren't designed to turn sweetly, absorb difficult conditions, and be comfortable over a six-hour session.

There are fast freeride board s ,some are shaped for comfort some for speed .
finding one that is fast and comfy is the key ,if you are comfy in chop you can go faster ,I keep a slalom board ,in case I want the thrill of going crazy speeds ,the ankles feel it the next day ,
i prefer the tabou rocket now ,fast and not at all scary in chop to ocean swell.
It s great to have a board that you know is going to charge at any chop and come out the other ....end saying that was easy .

thats free riding .

When you get gear that can handle the rough better than hard core slalom stuff you increase your sailing time, enjoyment and widen the range of locations you can sail at as you're not restricted to flat water locations. With good FR board no cam sail you can blast out through waves and blast the ocean.
You won't win speed records or races, (unless it's long distance and rough) better durability of equipment and quicker rigging are added bonus's also.
You won't miss the few knots difference.

The Tabou Manta's are what you are looking for Colin.

Performance of a Starboard Sonic with exceptional softness / comfort in chop and swell.

I am sure Aus 1111 will let you try his 2016 106 litre or Blair his range of Manta boards.

The Sonic's are a little better upwind - speed is about the same - till you hit 20 plus knots then the Manta's have another gear!

The Futura is a dog of a board upwind. No good for river sailing / racing. Reckon you'll hate that board.

Its fast off the wind especially powered up - across the wind only average - and I never found it to be that comfortable in chop anyway.

Upwind its absolutely useless!

I turned 65, switched from JP and Starboard slalom boards to Futura and SuperSport, with a Tabou Speedster thrown in.
Fast freeride is more tolerant of smaller sails, underpowered sailing, and less than slalom fins, which make jibing much easier, jumping safer, and the need for good tuning less important.
You might give up 1/2 mph at the top end perfectly powered, but you gain using smaller sails, no cam and 1-2 cam sails, easy jibing when tired, a lot lighter rig overall, and fins that land easier and work over a wider wind and chop range.
I find no difference in upwind or downwind, or across the wind, with the change of board companies and models. Bigger fin and bigger triangle well powered goes upwind off the fin, while smaller fins, small sails, and mast track back seem better for broad and lower beam reaching topspeeds.

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petermac33 said..

The Futura is a dog of a board upwind. No good for river sailing / racing. Reckon you'll hate that board.

Its fast off the wind especially powered up - across the wind only average - and I never found it to be that comfortable in chop anyway.

Upwind its absolutely useless!

I haven't noticed much difference between board's upwind ability in general sailing (not racing) - when using the same fin

I dont think there is too much difference in comfort level or speed between a free ride and slalom board in choppy bay sailing conditions especially when its gusting around 30knots.
Time to take out the wave gear.

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Ian K said..


Carbon Art make a free ride board with a tuttle box. Anyone else?

carbon art will make anything you want, ask MR love

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keef said..

Ian K said..


Carbon Art make a free ride board with a tuttle box. Anyone else?

carbon art will make anything you want, ask MR love

Yep, looks like James freeride boards have tuttles anyway. The KA GPS boards I designed are pretty user friendly and handle chop well, he would make you one of those if interested.

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Oversupply said..

col5555 said..
So after years of riding hard edged slalom boards I have come to the conclusion I lack the size, weight and skill to fully maximise small and medium sized slalom board to there full potential in rough water.
I am now considering switching to freerace style of boards like the 2017 Futura or RRD firestorm (must have tuttle box)
Looking for input from riders who may have also switched and what you found.

After years of wrestling with a 2013 I-Sonic 110, I concluded the board was designed for AB’s bigger brother. It gave a harsh ride, loosened teeth and internal organs would be shuffled around. Fatigue was also an issue. I was running Overdrives on the board.

Recently tried running the 110 with an NCX 6.5. The difference is remarkable. Chop impacts are softer or more prolonged by the sails shock absorbing properties. Getting lifted onto the balls of my feet occurs less and is easier to recover from. Fatigue is not an issue and I am spending more time on the water.

I’m now excited about rigging up the I-Sonic and not too interested in working. Hence this post. Bring on summer.

interesting as I found the same in rough water, NCX combined with a slalom board (fanatic falcon 107) is very exciting perhaps we should consider the whole rig rather than just looking at the board in rough conditions

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col5555 said..
So after years of riding hard edged slalom boards I have come to the conclusion I lack the size, weight and skill to fully maximise small and medium sized slalom board to there full potential in rough water.
I am now considering switching to freerace style of boards like the 2017 Futura or RRD firestorm (must have tuttle box)
Looking for input from riders who may have also switched and what you found.

yes i've come up with the same conclusions as after many a years and boards of trying.

The context is the water state. I found this out with my speed gear, where I was no faster on my missile speed board than I was on my small JP slalom board unless the water was really flat and I could also use a really small fin.

I've owned almost all of the Futura's at some point, 93,101,111,122,133, however I found I could never really get settled on them. I've also tried some isonic's and also different rigs from 2 cam, 3 cam, no cam (NP & Naish)

The major break through for me was when I started using Tabou Rockets (105,115) and severne overdrives (6.2,7.0), with the addition of good fins (Volt and Vipers). The Rockets handle the chop really well and when combined with a fast and stable rig such as the over drives and you fin the boards correctly, you end up with a set up that you want to "push" in rough water instead of being scared sh**less. You can also back off (slow it down) this set up if you get court out when the wind picks up and survive with reasonable control.

In my view the rig plays and important part as it must flex and breath enough when the gusts hit, not being too reactive and pushing you around. like wise with the fins, the C3 venom's were really good at this.

Every now and again, I go for a sail on our local lake instead of the ocean, where I long for a more powerful board and fin. Then I go for a sail on the ocean and get a harsh reminder of what real swell and chop is and why chose the current set up. After two days of getting my speed fix and getting battered around, I jump on my wave gear and relax a bit, as my body is totally wrecked from racing around.

I've only cotton onto this over the last 2 years; there is most likely other board/sail combo's out there (the only negative with the rockets is the power box fin set up - really hard to get the right fins, you miss out on the 2nd hand market, there is no demo fins and if you get the wrong size by 2cm - $$$).

So I think there is a lot of merit in putting a free race sail on a free ride board. I've been playing around with this over the last 2 years. I also came across an article in boards mag about 6 months ago which is a really interesting read on this subject.


boards.co.uk/longform/freeride-vs-freerace-vs-race-which-gear-and-why

If you read this article, make sure you read the vey last paragraph

On the fin issue, I have had great luck with power box fins. Every board I've had has been equipped with power box setup, except 2 of them which were tutte and U.S. box equipped. So I have a lot of experience choosing a nice power box fin.

My favorite are the MFC fins. They have always been high performance and very forgiving on the water. My favorite models are the Free wave fin, K- One Freeride fin and the K -One Wave fin. Those models have a great shape to them and were partly designed by Kevin Prichard. Very maneuverable, fast high performing fins. I highly recommended them. They range from $120-$180 U.S. dollars depending on fin size and worth every penny.






The Free wave comes in Power and Tuttle Box.

Yesterday on the river in 15-25 knots I used my 2014 carbon Sonic 97 with my 6.6m race sail and a super soft and narrow fin the Vector 36 EX.

It has taken me quite a while to appreciate how good this board is - yesterday was really the first time.

Always disliked the harsh ride since I bought it a few months back.

In 20-25 knot conditions i always felt I was backing off. The thing is scary!

Difference this time was i used a control fin. Much easier to go for it in the gust.

Sailing back from Nedlands I crossed the path of a large ferry and the chop and swell it created was horrendous.

Nearly lost it - those were the conditions where i needed to be on a Tabou Rocket!

Downside - was when the wind dropped to 15-20 the fin felt on the small size and it spun out a few times.

When I swapped boards over to my wood sonic 87 - wow I could feel the much softer ride straight away.

Starboard carbon slalom boards are NOT the easiest to ride - but if you are willing / able to go for it - they offer top performance.

As I said in a previous post - I reckon Colin would be better buying a Tabou Manta - it's a much easier board to sail in the gusts / chop than a Sonic.

The Tabou Rocket - is just too comfortable in the chop / swell - and you pay the price in reduced speed especially in the flatter stuff.

Select S1 fins are available in powerbox and are excellent in rough water, open bay, and ocean conditions.

have freeride/bump'n'jump boards become quite slalom-ish over the last few years, where earlier on they were a little closer to a wave board shape but a bit flatter?

Depends which company and which year compared to their previous shapes.
Evolution is change, not neccesarily in one direction or the other, it can just wander one way one year, then back past the starting point to other direction the following year.

So far the new generation boards are still going for the shorter, wider shape. Companies are really focused about getting out and planning early these days. If you want a narrow shape, you have to go down in volume a lot to get a 60 cm wide board these days. What used to be a 60-65cm board is now a 70-80cm wide board today.

Personally, I enjoy the narrow free wave and Freeride boards a lot better than these new generation wide boards. To big, bulky in my opinion. I brag about the Naish Starship because it is a new generation board that is still narrow in shape being a freeride, bump and jump, freestyle wave board all built into one board. That's why this board can do so many things, it's narrow and short, with some unique one of a kind special rail features built into the Starship. Robby had a plan and executed this beautifully. Again, perfect board for a huge range of conditions. The Starship is the only board I need. I use all the time from 12-30 MPH winds.

It's all about the shape that attracts us to a certain board. Love it when we find that desired shape that makes windsurfing what is was always ment to be, effortless, and adrenaline rushing. If this isn't you, you have the wrong board, and need to shop around for the right board for you. Happy Sailing!

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KJ said..

col5555 said..
So after years of riding hard edged slalom boards I have come to the conclusion I lack the size, weight and skill to fully maximise small and medium sized slalom board to there full potential in rough water.
I am now considering switching to freerace style of boards like the 2017 Futura or RRD firestorm (must have tuttle box)
Looking for input from riders who may have also switched and what you found.

yes i've come up with the same conclusions as after many a years and boards of trying.

The context is the water state. I found this out with my speed gear, where I was no faster on my missile speed board than I was on my small JP slalom board unless the water was really flat and I could also use a really small fin.

I've owned almost all of the Futura's at some point, 93,101,111,122,133, however I found I could never really get settled on them. I've also tried some isonic's and also different rigs from 2 cam, 3 cam, no cam (NP & Naish)

The major break through for me was when I started using Tabou Rockets (105,115) and severne overdrives (6.2,7.0), with the addition of good fins (Volt and Vipers). The Rockets handle the chop really well and when combined with a fast and stable rig such as the over drives and you fin the boards correctly, you end up with a set up that you want to "push" in rough water instead of being scared sh**less. You can also back off (slow it down) this set up if you get court out when the wind picks up and survive with reasonable control.

In my view the rig plays and important part as it must flex and breath enough when the gusts hit, not being too reactive and pushing you around. like wise with the fins, the C3 venom's were really good at this.

Every now and again, I go for a sail on our local lake instead of the ocean, where I long for a more powerful board and fin. Then I go for a sail on the ocean and get a harsh reminder of what real swell and chop is and why chose the current set up. After two days of getting my speed fix and getting battered around, I jump on my wave gear and relax a bit, as my body is totally wrecked from racing around.

I've only cotton onto this over the last 2 years; there is most likely other board/sail combo's out there (the only negative with the rockets is the power box fin set up - really hard to get the right fins, you miss out on the 2nd hand market, there is no demo fins and if you get the wrong size by 2cm - $$$).

So I think there is a lot of merit in putting a free race sail on a free ride board. I've been playing around with this over the last 2 years. I also came across an article in boards mag about 6 months ago which is a really interesting read on this subject.


boards.co.uk/longform/freeride-vs-freerace-vs-race-which-gear-and-why

If you read this article, make sure you read the vey last paragraph

Loved my 2013 LTD Rocket and miss it a lot. I had a tuttle box put in it. It's a one-off cost and opens a lot more options with fins. Worth every penny.

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N1GEL said..

KJ said..

col5555 said..
So after years of riding hard edged slalom boards I have come to the conclusion I lack the size, weight and skill to fully maximise small and medium sized slalom board to there full potential in rough water.
I am now considering switching to freerace style of boards like the 2017 Futura or RRD firestorm (must have tuttle box)
Looking for input from riders who may have also switched and what you found.

yes i've come up with the same conclusions as after many a years and boards of trying.

The context is the water state. I found this out with my speed gear, where I was no faster on my missile speed board than I was on my small JP slalom board unless the water was really flat and I could also use a really small fin.

I've owned almost all of the Futura's at some point, 93,101,111,122,133, however I found I could never really get settled on them. I've also tried some isonic's and also different rigs from 2 cam, 3 cam, no cam (NP & Naish)

The major break through for me was when I started using Tabou Rockets (105,115) and severne overdrives (6.2,7.0), with the addition of good fins (Volt and Vipers). The Rockets handle the chop really well and when combined with a fast and stable rig such as the over drives and you fin the boards correctly, you end up with a set up that you want to "push" in rough water instead of being scared sh**less. You can also back off (slow it down) this set up if you get court out when the wind picks up and survive with reasonable control.

In my view the rig plays and important part as it must flex and breath enough when the gusts hit, not being too reactive and pushing you around. like wise with the fins, the C3 venom's were really good at this.

Every now and again, I go for a sail on our local lake instead of the ocean, where I long for a more powerful board and fin. Then I go for a sail on the ocean and get a harsh reminder of what real swell and chop is and why chose the current set up. After two days of getting my speed fix and getting battered around, I jump on my wave gear and relax a bit, as my body is totally wrecked from racing around.

I've only cotton onto this over the last 2 years; there is most likely other board/sail combo's out there (the only negative with the rockets is the power box fin set up - really hard to get the right fins, you miss out on the 2nd hand market, there is no demo fins and if you get the wrong size by 2cm - $$$).

So I think there is a lot of merit in putting a free race sail on a free ride board. I've been playing around with this over the last 2 years. I also came across an article in boards mag about 6 months ago which is a really interesting read on this subject.


boards.co.uk/longform/freeride-vs-freerace-vs-race-which-gear-and-why

If you read this article, make sure you read the vey last paragraph

Loved my 2013 LTD Rocket and miss it a lot. I had a tuttle box put in it. It's a one-off cost and opens a lot more options with fins. Worth every penny.

I would have thought the Patricks were comfy in chop? I had rockets and used to grab a rail occasionally gybing in chop..although that was probably my technique or too big a board for the conditions??