I am still catapulting occasionally in gusty conditions and it's starting to hurt a bit now as I get faster and ballsier. Usually the next day. I just noticed that I can't lift my head off the floor due to a sore neck from yesterday's 2 spectacular catapults (solution: don't lie on the floor).

I'm usually sheeted in as I go over which seems to be at least throwing the mast leeward of the board's nose.

Anyway, I'm not too keen on injuring my neck. Is there any technique at all to landing safely? I'm always impacting on the back of head/shoulders(!).

my few cents, hold on to the boom whilst catapulting rather than letting go you have a little bit of chance landing around or forward and on your front more than backdoes this make sense

Try wearing a big piece of styrofoam around your neck, to fill the gap between your helmet and your bouyancy vest/body armour.

I hope this helps...

If not...try a smaller sail or more downhaul? Tighter footstraps??

If the activities you enjoy are causing injury to you neck, its not good. In relation to technique I cannot really tell you much as its been so long since I've been catapulted. Mainly because the wind in Sydney rarely gets above 15 knots. I have not sailed in extreme conditions since getting back into windsurfing though I am dying for some sailing where you have more than enough wind.

Perhaps if you feel that a catapult is coming on you either sheet in harder and sink your bum to windward. This will cause your board to round up but thats better than a catapult. I know this is hard because when you are flying along everything happens so fast. I remember when sailing in strong winds on Lake Illawarra I'd get catapulted a fair bit, especially when the fin hit a big lump of weed. I normally sort of tucked myself up a bit as I sommersaulted through the air and kind of landed on my back instead of my head.

Perhaps consider wearing some sort of neck support, something like one of those class A or whatever they are life jackets.

The other thing to consider are exercises and a diet to help strengthen your neck. If you had a neck like a rugby prop, ie no neck, your chances of neck strain or injury are bound to be reduced in a catapult.

I'm sorry Moby but when the time is right for a catapult, it don't matter what you do, you are going for a dive. What gets me, is that you can feel yourself going but there ain't a thing you can do about it.

try moving your harness lines forward a bit so that you can vent the strong gusts a bit easyer , and more downhaul should help with this too,

a properly tuned rig should not want to throw you around at all

In westerlies I get yanked off the board a bit but find I always manage to yank the rig windward then crash on top or behind it. I think I reactively sheet out and pull the mast hand hard toward the wind. Although I sometimes crash screaming, I find the worst I've had is a bit of a jarred wrist this year. Never hit the board doing this either.

I catapult just about every time I sail (mainly cos I have no real technique). I have found that if I stay holding on to the boom mainly with the front hand and just tuck my chin slightly, I will land more on my lead shoulder. Bit like doing a forward shoulder roll.
If you dont want to stay holding onto the boom, at least tuck your chin into your chest. Doing that will tend to make you roll your body anyway so you wont land on your head. I may not be able to sail real well but many years of judo taught me to roll just fine

Select to expand quote

Iceman said...

I'm sorry Moby but when the time is right for a catapult, it don't matter what you do, you are going for a dive. What gets me, is that you can feel yourself going but there ain't a thing you can do about it.

Thats the difference between us and the best. However through experience and technique, the amount of catapulting will reduce. So that means I am in for them the next time the wind gets over 20 knots in Sydney. Thankfully that means I should be okay for another 10 years.

When I used to sail back in the 90s and there were strong winds I definately sailed differently in really overpowered conditions. Instead of trying to maximise lift from the board, fin and sail I would hunker down and sail in survival mode. I remember huge westerlies where a 3.7 was too much and Lake Illawarra was just a frothing mess of foam. Sometimes the escarpment behind Dapto had a brown curtain of dust blown across from the inland. Temperatures were low and excitement high.

Select to expand quote

nobody said...

It sounds like you either need to take all your leave over November/December or get a job with unusual hours. I'm a shift worker and so about half my working hours are nights. I get out often (when the wind blows) for a person with a full time job.

I normally finish work around 4pm and can be at either Narrabeen Lake or Pittwater by 4.40pm. In November that will give me about an hour and a half sailing and by December/January about 2 hours. Yeah there were a few days in December that were good but January was pretty disappointing for me and it just faded from there to what we have now, bugger all.

Select to expand quote

Mobydisc said...

nobody said...

It sounds like you either need to take all your leave over November/December or get a job with unusual hours. I'm a shift worker and so about half my working hours are nights. I get out often (when the wind blows) for a person with a full time job.

I normally finish work around 4pm and can be at either Narrabeen Lake or Pittwater by 4.40pm. In November that will give me about an hour and a half sailing and by December/January about 2 hours. Yeah there were a few days in December that were good but January was pretty disappointing for me and it just faded from there to what we have now, bugger all.

Sorry Moby. When I reread it, it sounded like bragging so I deleted it. That will teach me to reread and delete before I post.

Sounds like your a guy screaming out for a formula or longboard. Actually (and obviously by now) I think if you live in Sydney a longboard should be a person's first choice, followed by formula gear, then a small stuff. It would be less disappointing that way.

Select to expand quote

OceanBlue64 said...

I catapult just about every time I sail (mainly cos I have no real technique). I have found that if I stay holding on to the boom mainly with the front hand and just tuck my chin slightly, I will land more on my lead shoulder. Bit like doing a forward shoulder roll.
If you dont want to stay holding onto the boom, at least tuck your chin into your chest. Doing that will tend to make you roll your body anyway so you wont land on your head. I may not be able to sail real well but many years of judo taught me to roll just fine

could'nt agree more, suffering from ankylosing spondilitis I should not even be windsurfing but love the sport more than any other, tuck your head into your chest and keep hold of the boom. I've been catapulted, landed on my back and had my head thrown back in the water jarring my whole spine. Took me half a carton to get back on my uneven keel

Select to expand quote

jp747 said...

my few cents, hold on to the boom whilst catapulting rather than letting go you have a little bit of chance landing around or forward and on your front more than backdoes this make sense

yes.

i think i've done that a few times, now i think of it. must remember to do again.

Mostly happening when I am trolling about in marginal conditions for an hour or so, trying everything to maximise lift and then it picks up with gusty squalls. My mind is still somewhere in marginal mode for a while. Damn you fickle wind.

try keeping your front leg even straighter.

Select to expand quote

evlPanda said...

I am still catapulting occasionally in gusty conditions and it's starting to hurt a bit now as I get faster and ballsier.

Well, presuming you want to avoid catapults in the first place, rather than just make them less painful, the #1 tip is longer harness lines so you have more room and time to react. What length lines do you have now?

Are you getting catapulted hooked in and in the straps? Make sure you're always looking upwind so you can see the gusts coming and anticipate especially by getting lower.

Some good solutions above to stop catapults but sometimes there's nothing you can do. Best way to avoid injury (and also to learn a forward loop) is once you feel yourself going then hold on tight, pull the back hand in really really hard and straighten your front arm. DO NOT LOOK AT THE WATER infront of you - look at the clew of the sail. The sail will glide around like a flat water forward and you won't get that big jolt when you hit the water. Once you've done it a few times then you'll be looking for some chop and trying to stay in the footstraps for a forward. It takes commitment but will make your crash catapults much less painful and maybe even enjoyable.

Select to expand quote

FletcHuz said...

Some good solutions above to stop catapults but sometimes there's nothing you can do. Best way to avoid injury (and also to learn a forward loop) is once you feel yourself going then hold on tight, pull the back hand in really really hard and straighten your front arm. DO NOT LOOK AT THE WATER infront of you - look at the clew of the sail. The sail will glide around like a flat water forward and you won't get that big jolt when you hit the water. Once you've done it a few times then you'll be looking for some chop and trying to stay in the footstraps for a forward. It takes commitment but will make your crash catapults much less painful and maybe even enjoyable.

So is a forwd loop an extension of a catapult?? just with feet still strapped???
More pointers please, can I pull these off on a Kombat 105l with a 6.0 ezzy?

Select to expand quote

wormy said...

So is a forwd loop an extension of a catapult?? just with feet still strapped???
More pointers please, can I pull these off on a Kombat 105l with a 6.0 ezzy?

More like the cheese roll. You think about the forces involved in a catapult. If they can be used to unstick the board you are a fair way towards getting rotation.

Select to expand quote

FletcHuz said...

Some good solutions above to stop catapults but sometimes there's nothing you can do. Best way to avoid injury (and also to learn a forward loop) is once you feel yourself going then hold on tight, pull the back hand in really really hard and straighten your front arm. DO NOT LOOK AT THE WATER infront of you - look at the clew of the sail. The sail will glide around like a flat water forward and you won't get that big jolt when you hit the water. Once you've done it a few times then you'll be looking for some chop and trying to stay in the footstraps for a forward. It takes commitment but will make your crash catapults much less painful and maybe even enjoyable.

hmmm, I like. I'm already getting a little bored going in a straight line
There's a low wind, practise version isn't there? Rail up and go forward?

and yes, sometimes there's nothing you can do. Especially when you:

A) are keeping rig as upright as possible, looking for maximum power and speed and you go over that line. Nothing to blame but my own thrillseeking attitude, which for a moment is greater than my skill.

B) have fallen into the "anti-zone" (opposite of "the zone"). Sometimes for about 15 minutes, only on a port tack, my good side, I can't get my back foot in. there is absolutely no reason for this. it is only in my mind. aaaand catapult!

listen to the immortal words of chopper "harden the f..k up" or learn to do a simple kindergarten forward roll by tucking your head in to your chest.

think you doing the right thing sheeting in, this works the best, but make sure you sheet in real hard, and if you are airbourne at the time, you can claim you tried your first forward loop.

hahaha, poor guy. He just wants not to hurt himself.. And now all you guys are talking about "oh yeah just sheet on, and go for a forward"

I just think its hard when your trying not to hurt yourself, being able to sheet on and go a forward can also hurt yourself...

I reckon catapults are just a learning experience, eventually youll get a feel of the rig and know when things are going to the sh!t and being able to do something about it.

Just my 2 cents!
Try not to hurt yourself toooo much

To be honest though, I reckon its a bit of a buzz being thrown over the nose. Maybe thats a little bit of insanity showing
Sure does get the adrenalin going though and makes you more determined to hang in that bit longer next time.

A forward loop is basically a controlled catapult, it's the same forces involved you just harness them for kicks :) Not really like a cheese roll as a cheese roll you pretty much roll over the top of the rig (rig raked way back) and i've never seen anyone do a catapult like that.

It is far safer though that when you feel yourself going, sheet in HARD and look back. It steers the mast away from the nose and rotates you much flatter around the font as opposed to straight into the water. That's the hardest thing about learning forward loops, getting over the anti catapult reflex. If you start getting over whilst catapulting you're 90% of the way there

I agree that the main thing is to commit until the bitter end.[}:)]
But it is one thing to learn this through catapults,forwards and other moves that really give you a sensible point to bail out and through experience you discover just about every time you bail it hurts.
Another to try and be told "just don't bail - commit to the end".
So commit to the end in an over the handle bars rocket launch and in theory you won't get as smashed up as often.
I don't want to look backwards in a catapult-I'm not that ardcore!

Select to expand quote

sflack said...

hahaha, poor guy. He just wants not to hurt himself.. And now all you guys are talking about "oh yeah just sheet on, and go for a forward"

Yeah, very funny . I like the attitude though.

But if commiting even more will produce a softer landing I'm all for it. Kinda hard to practise those catapults though. Didn't even come close today.

Select to expand quote

wormy said...

FletcHuz said...

Some good solutions above to stop catapults but sometimes there's nothing you can do. Best way to avoid injury (and also to learn a forward loop) is once you feel yourself going then hold on tight, pull the back hand in really really hard and straighten your front arm. DO NOT LOOK AT THE WATER infront of you - look at the clew of the sail. The sail will glide around like a flat water forward and you won't get that big jolt when you hit the water. Once you've done it a few times then you'll be looking for some chop and trying to stay in the footstraps for a forward. It takes commitment but will make your crash catapults much less painful and maybe even enjoyable.

So is a forwd loop an extension of a catapult?? just with feet still strapped???
More pointers please, can I pull these off on a Kombat 105l with a 6.0 ezzy?

Yep, Kombat 105 and 6.0 ezzy will be fine for forwards and yes essentially the forward is just a controlled catapult with your feet in the straps (and the board in the air). If you can chop hop and you can catapult then you should be able to forward. Key tips - jump off the wind a bit, look at the clew and sheet back hand in really hard while keeping front arm straight. DO NOT LET GO AND DO NOT STOP LOOKING AT THE CLEW - you will be suprised how much it doesn't hurt and before long you will be looping.

But like sflack said this post was about not hurting yourself - sheeting in hard and looking at the clew should provide softer landings in the catapults...but be warned... sheeting in and looking forwards (rather than at the clew) will result in much heavier landings. Good luck and have fun!

Evl, what is clear is that there is no simple answer to this, but HTFU is not the answer for me as I did fracture my neck going over the front and was layed up with a HALO and off work for 5 months. Yes there are a lot of ideas in this thread already, for me it is keeping weight back when possible and anticipating any gust, chop or sandbank that may cause a catapult, if you do get warning, unhook from your harness, but often this is not possible. Some sailors have had success letting go of their front hand which may cause the rig to fall away from you, but I hav'nt tried this myself. Make sure your sail is rigged correctly so that you have the maximum handling in the gusts, this means at least the recommended down haul or maybe even more. You should get good enough so you can sail without fear of catapulting unless hitting a sand bank, or rail tripping if you are sailing really fast. You may find some more ideas in this thread from the Speed Forum
www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=37327&SearchTerms=crash

Best of luck

PS - if you neck is really sore after a stack, or if you get any loss of strength in an arm or change of feeling in your finger tips or, get off to the doctor or emergency pronto, when it comes to your neck or back, dont take any risks.........

for the speed sailing guys I think that the neck brace idea is the way to go.

I race motocross, and recently due to loosing a good friend to a neck injury and another good friend having a bad crash that has left them in a wheelchair for the rest of their lives at the age of 19... me and most of the guys racing have started wearing these carbon fibre neck braces

http://www.leatt-brace.com/index.php?page_id=14&id=3

they are not cheap at over $1,100.... hard to not justify it though really.
I had a massive crash late last year and broke my brace in half... i broke my shoulder and injured around the area but saved my neck!

I dont know how it would work with out a full helmet though because the helmet hits the brace and stops that whiplash..
Spotty has been looking at mine and trying to work out how to use it for sailing..
i think the foam ring idea would work better...

I used to catapault all the time. Now it NEVER happens unless I hit something. Even in 30kts and over. Maybe I'm sailing like a wuss, or maybe it's a matter of being alert and easing back a bit before you get into the catapault zone.

When your sailing fast and hard and unexpected catapulting happens i.e. Going over the handle bars

One of the Best thing to do is roll your head and shoulder .........let it all go ......relax your middle and lower body but hang on tight....... Let your legs swing and fling around to the mast top.

Do not try to jump clear .

Danage to your equipment is nearly always going to occur


Best result ......1 harness line snaps on impact and releases you
2 harness lets go (stiching hook)
3 You fly off clear with the boom snapping at the head and clew
4 Your noise of the board is smashed off with no other danage.
5 Your sail most times is ok only when your sailing at speed

Footstrap Plug in the board lets go or fin hits the bottom and is ripped out with the track 1 harness line snaps 2 harness lets go (stiching hook) 3 You fly off clear with the boom snapping at the head and clew 4 Your noise of the board is smashed off.

When fast unexpected catapulting happens. Roll shoulder and head Stay relaxed as possible and totally go with it,,,,,,, this seens to minimise an injnury.

Then worry about the equipment costs..........and repairs....... Which are normally pritty good.

If you just get pulled over,,, then you will end up jumping and land on your sail, going through it ..... with out all the other damange.......Part of the action.