I'm getting sick of having to water start every time i want to turn around and go back the other way, but i have heard that gybing is fairly difficult for beginners, particularly with small slalom boards so i haven't attempted it yet.
What experience level is needed for someone to learn to gybe/carve gybe?
Are there any exceptionally good videos/sources that will help me learn how to gybe?
What are some common errors made by people when they gybe, particularly smaller slalom boards?

Cheers,
Moose

Guy Cribb has a DVD on the subject of Gybing

I haven't yet pulled off a succesful carve gybe but in terms of understanding the technique i have found two movies to be good. Beginner to Winner and Learning to Gybe with Alan Cadiz. The second one goes into a lot of detail about gybing and while it is dated the info seems to be quite good.

Like learning anything, you just have to give it a go. If you can go and spend some time where there is flat water like Inverloch. If you can water start You can learn to gybe.
Everyone will tell you what they think are the main points to gybing are, so here are mine.
1. Don't rake the mast towards the back of the board.
2. Bend ze Knees.
3. Don't make the turn 180 degrees.
4. Commit to the turn.
Point 1. If you rake the sail back you will tend to load the tail of the board and loose speed. Lean forwards.
Point 2. This will help keep your centre of gravity lower and in the right place to keep the mast more upright and carve the board.
Point 3. When starting The gybe, bear off slightly and then start the turn, then on the exit aim about 20 degrees off the direction you are wanting to go to pick up that bit of speed that washed off during the gybe and the gradually turn the board more upwind once you are back up to speed.
Point 4. Once you start the turn keep the rail engaged. If you don't the speed will wash of and things just start getting harder.
There are other things that come in to play such as where you should place your feet, where to look before and during the turn, how much to angle the mast. These are things happen almost naturally and then once you are gybing more often then you can start tweaking the gybe.
One other thing to try once you start making some gybes is to attempt duck gybes. They aren't as hard as they look and they naturally make you do the 4 points I have mentioned, but walk before you run.
Have a look at the Getwindsurfing videos on Youtube

My two big errors .

1 Standing too upright ( as per Glitches point 1 ) bend your knees lean fwd
2 Not looking out of the turn. look at where you are headed not the sail or where your foot is about to go.

I also found that my head was so full of advice and tips from vids I would simply screw the whole thing up thinking to much and doing everything at once . Get a mate or someone at your local to watch you and work on each movement individually through the turn clear your mind and aim to achieve one part at a time .

The begginner to winner video has step-by-step instructions on ever aspect. Good video to watch if you're learning. I find with gybing, bare off a bit, take the back foot out and place it on the leeward rail just behind the front strap. Keep your arms extended to keep your weight forward and body quite upright. Lean in to the turn lookinh where you want to end up. At the middle point you'll feel the sail go weightless. This is when you'll naturally want to swap to the other side of thr boom. As you do this, cross your old back hand over the front hand and grab the other side of the boom. You'll shift your strapped foot at this stage. It'll all feel pretty natural once you get to that sweet spot in the middle of the turn. Just commit to the carve... the rest WILL come naturally. Keep at it... they feel rad when you nail them.

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ggh said...
My two big errors .

1 Standing too upright ( as per Glitches point 1 ) bend your knees lean fwd
2 Not looking out of the turn. look at where you are headed not the sail or where your foot is about to go.

I also found that my head was so full of advice and tips from vids I would simply screw the whole thing up thinking to much and doing everything at once . Get a mate or someone at your local to watch you and work on each movement individually through the turn clear your mind and aim to achieve one part at a time .

Uep it'll all come pretty naturally if you don't over think it. I personally don't think its too hard to learn.

From a conditions/equipment perspective:

The small slalom board is going to make learning much more difficult. If you can find a freeride/FSW that suits you, then try to do that (I spent the first 4 years working out what equipment suited me).

I brought the Beginner to Winner DVD when I was a beginner (5 years ago now). My opinion, the gybing segment is excellent to use if you're at Jem's clinic in Maui where the conditions are perfect. There's only one place in SA I can think of where the conditions are right to use his video, and this only occurs a few times a year (once a year if you work a 5 day a week job and can't get out of work).

In the normal stuff we sail in (ocean or lake), the there will be swell or chop. The angle will vary, but when you make a gybe, you are either going up hill, or down hill. So, part of gybing in most conditions is picking a swell/chop and gybing on it so the swell is surfing you around.. going up the back of chop/swell will make you stop (I can give you more tips on this if you like).

Also, when you are intermediate, you're on big/biggish gear and sailing on apparent wind. You can't use Gems tips because as soon as you bear away, the sail power switches off. So, under these conditions, you have to make a very sharp turn in order to keep the sail powered up.

There's different techniques to gybing. Some people have a surfy technique where they glide around standing on the board with very little power in the sail. Others have a slalomy powered up gybe where there weight is through the boom and use the feet to push the board around when the sail powers up klew first. I do the later as I have evolved this style due to my stuffed knees and also learning on slalom boards like you. If you progress using slalom boards, you'll probably adopt the latter technique as slalom boards don't like to gybe (ie: you need to push the board around)... however the 1st technique is better. It looks better and the users plane exit more often.

I recommend breaking the problem down. Start by gybing sheeted out so the sail isn't powering you around and try to concentrate on his carving around. Just keep on doing that. Your first attempts might cause you to plane into them for a 1-2 board lengths before stopping dead. Look at timing this when chop and swell etc. This is the key to gybing in real world conditions that most of us are dished up at our locals.

The next stage after that should be automatic. If you can work out how too get the board around far enough (and this might take you a few weeks or 20 years to do), the sail will want to flip. So let it (this is where you can use some of Gems tips about holding the boom). If you have flipped the sail, switch you feet, and you would have probably done what Peter Harts calls a "Flarve". I can give you a good technique for boom switching when using big sails when you haven't almost got it far enough (it's a Pete Hart tip).

There's heaps more to it than the above, but this is a start.

Again, I can give you more tips with swell timing. This is an art in itself... but once you have your head around it, carve gybing is easy, even if you're technique isn't that good (and mine isn't).

J

Biggest thing for me was keeping my arms straight. When bearing off I used to rake the sail back and loose balance. Much easier if you bend your knees and push the sail away from you that way you keep most of the weight on the front half of the board and can judge when to flip the rig more accurately.

+1 for fsw boards for gybing

After many years of unsuccessfully trying to teach myself to gybe (despite books, DVD's etc) I can say that unless you are naturally athletic, GET A LESSON right at the start (even if the lesson is only from mates on the beach) and regularly thereafter to get you on the right track early on. It is so easy to think you are doing the right things when you are trying to teach yourself.
The few times I have had help I have really made progress. I just needed to do it more often.
I am nearly there now, and have booked some lessons next weekend to get the fully planing gybe nailed!

Tip 2 - practice practice practice gybe, after gybe, after gybe.
I found it best to practice on one tack only at each session so you don't get confused, and then you can tack on the other leg to get back upwind.
You must practice on the other tack next time, of course!

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jn1 said..

From a conditions/equipment perspective:

The small slalom board is going to make learning much more difficult. If you can find a freeride/FSW that suits you, then try to do that (I spent the first 4 years working out what equipment suited me).

I brought the Beginner to Winner DVD when I was a beginner (5 years ago now). My opinion, the gybing segment is excellent to use if you're at Jem's clinic in Maui where the conditions are perfect. There's only one place in SA I can think of where the conditions are right to use his video, and this only occurs a few times a year (once a year if you work a 5 day a week job and can't get out of work).

In the normal stuff we sail in (ocean or lake), the there will be swell or chop. The angle will vary, but when you make a gybe, you are either going up hill, or down hill. So, part of gybing in most conditions is picking a swell/chop and gybing on it so the swell is surfing you around.. going up the back of chop/swell will make you stop (I can give you more tips on this if you like).

Also, when you are intermediate, you're on big/biggish gear and sailing on apparent wind. You can't use Gems tips because as soon as you bear away, the sail power switches off. So, under these conditions, you have to make a very sharp turn in order to keep the sail powered up.

There's different techniques to gybing. Some people have a surfy technique where they glide around standing on the board with very little power in the sail. Others have a slalomy powered up gybe where there weight is through the boom and use the feet to push the board around when the sail powers up klew first. I do the later as I have evolved this style due to my stuffed knees and also learning on slalom boards like you. If you progress using slalom boards, you'll probably adopt the latter technique as slalom boards don't like to gybe (ie: you need to push the board around)... however the 1st technique is better. It looks better and the users plane exit more often.

I recommend breaking the problem down. Start by gybing sheeted out so the sail isn't powering you around and try to concentrate on his carving around. Just keep on doing that. Your first attempts might cause you to plane into them for a 1-2 board lengths before stopping dead. Look at timing this when chop and swell etc. This is the key to gybing in real world conditions that most of us are dished up at our locals.

The next stage after that should be automatic. If you can work out how too get the board around far enough (and this might take you a few weeks or 20 years to do), the sail will want to flip. So let it (this is where you can use some of Gems tips about holding the boom). If you have flipped the sail, switch you feet, and you would have probably done what Peter Harts calls a "Flarve". I can give you a good technique for boom switching when using big sails when you haven't almost got it far enough (it's a Pete Hart tip).

There's heaps more to it than the above, but this is a start.

Again, I can give you more tips with swell timing. This is an art in itself... but once you have your head around it, carve gybing is easy, even if you're technique isn't that good (and mine isn't).

J

Solid post! Im just back into sailing after 20 years, but Ive been surfing all my life. 2 things I can still do (without thinking); and on my second day out was waterstart and gybe.

I found it interesting to read about the 'surfie' style and other style. Im somewhere between. I found, after years off a sailboard, is that powered up and planing nicely I simply bared off, sheeted out a bit but keeping some juice in my rig I could plan right through the turn.

The other good point thats reinforced over and over above is to feel the sweet spot in the turn where the rig iweightless and the whole switching siees of the boom will come naturally.

One thing I find interesting is that no one's mentioned that when youre not planing (on a fsw or similar) youll be putting your weight on the OPPOSITE rail to gybe. I dont think the video covers this. It sound counter-active, but trust me, its what physics determine you must do. This can cause trouble for a begginer who comes off the plane mid-gybe. In such a scenario the weight, balance and rail tottaly shifts.

I used to race motorbikes at Eastern Creek a lot and have the highest quals you can get in motorcycle training/racing (I have an a National racing license.... not that Ive ever been good enough to ride at that level).... my point being...

'COUNTER STEERING'. Not sure how it translates to watercraft but it does. If you hold a stationary push bike upright, turn the front wheel to the right, and let go, it falls to the left. Trippy stuff if youve been eating shrooms or smoked a doob... but its physics and you shouldnt think too hard about it... just accept tge law of physics. So...

When not planing, if you gybe, you have to push on the outside rail. Sorry... Im not God and didnt make this stupid rule. It just is! I do get it though, its like a freighter taking a slow turn in the ocean... the weight is transferred to the opposit side... thats why a truck tips over. Shiz.... this is my last bottle of red today.

In short... make sure youre planing, keep ya weight forward, extend ya arms and flip the rig when it feels right (too easy hey).

BTW.... stay upright and lean forward through the move. Bend your knees only if youre in choppy water ot open ocen swells, which you probs wont be. Keep your weight off the rig, but forwRd inside rail. The 'flip' (thats my rookie,, 20 yo speak) will come naturally.

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alec95 said..

Biggest thing for me was keeping my arms straight. When bearing off I used to rake the sail back and loose balance. Much easier if you bend your knees and push the sail away from you that way you keep most of the weight on the front half of the board and can judge when to flip the rig more accurately.

+1 for fsw boards for gybing

More solid advice...

Keep your arms extended and weight forward

Ill comment on barrel rolls (do they still call em that?) And forward loops in a couple of months

One last comment... you go where you look. IMPORTANT!!!!

Took my wife and son to Indo last year. Couldnt get up the hill we were staying on with three peeps on the bike. So had to hire a bike for my wife . Shed never ridden a motor bike before... my only advice was you go where you look. Seriously. I saw her in my mirrors swerving throught the corners. She was freeking out. Pulled her up and siad 'just look where you want to go. Dont stress about the potholes' LOL. Made a huge diff.

Ive repeated myself over and over (lucky youre not drinking with me right now),...

You need to look through through the turn!

Forget about it. It's impossible.

My 2 cents worth:
- Always attempt to gybe. If you don't try, you wont learn
- Look where you want to go
- When gybing, enter the gybe at speed
- Take your rear foot out of the foot strap and place over the centre line of the board between the front and back foot strap
- Grab the mast with your front hand - helps with mast rotation
- Carve a wide arc
- Time letting go your back hand just after you pass through the wind.
- Step forward when you change your feet - don't bog down - keep on the plane
- Rotate and power up the sail and sail away
- Don't give up if you get the timing, mast rotation or foot placement wrong. As long as you are balanced on the board (front to back, side to side) and you have a powered up sail in your hands (either clew or mast forward) you can almost get out of any situation

Maybe something else to remember is that you are not gybing 90 - 270 degrees
Its more like 160 - 210.
Starting the rig flip at 170 and carving through to 210 then putting the power back into the rig while you're still heading downwind not across it.

I wanted to improve my gybing and bought the Alan Cadiz video, which is very thorough.

The main "take home message" that worked for me was the positioning of the back foot in front of the rear strap and on the inside of the gybe.

Cadiz recommends keeping the rear foot in this position with the toes of the rear foot toward the inside rail. At the transition of the feet, the front foot is moved aft, immediately in front of and at 180 degrees to the rear foot. The heel of the front foot lines up with the toes of the rear foot. He describes it as a similar to a "dance step". By doing this the pressure is kept consistent on the inside rail during the carve, making for a smooth and uninterrupted arc. AS the heel of the front foot moves aft it takes over from the toes of the rear foot, putting pressure on the rail.

The Alan cadiz video is well worth the money, even if you only pick up a couple of tips.

Clarence

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clarence said..

I wanted to improve my gybing and bought the Alan Cadiz video, which is very thorough.

The main "take home message" that worked for me was the positioning of the back foot in front of the rear strap and on the inside of the gybe.

Cadiz recommends keeping the rear foot in this position with the toes of the rear foot toward the inside rail. At the transition of the feet, the front foot is moved aft, immediately in front of and at 180 degrees to the rear foot. The heel of the front foot lines up with the toes of the rear foot. He describes it as a similar to a "dance step". By doing this the pressure is kept consistent on the inside rail during the carve, making for a smooth and uninterrupted arc. AS the heel of the front foot moves aft it takes over from the toes of the rear foot, putting pressure on the rail.

The Alan cadiz video is well worth the money, even if you only pick up a couple of tips.

Clarence

Similar to Guy Cribb. Make sure you place your rear foot as close to the rear strap as possible otherwise you won't have room fro your front foot to go when you do the twist with your feet. I've found that generally when I stuff a gybe lately it's because I've got slack with my rear foot placement and it's too far forward.
Re Gem Hall - I think his clew first exits would be a hell of a lot harder than the usual carve gybe e.g - Guy Cribb- especially if your overpowered
Look at the exit! Keep low with bent knees and pull down into the boom for mast foot pressure to stop the board bouncing.( Note to self -now to go back out and do all this in chop )

wow, thanks everyone for all your advice.
I'll definitely give it a shot but im only a newbie and it seems there are quite a few people who don't learn to carve gybe for a couple of years. Oh well, no harm in trying so i'll give it a shot anyway.

It's not about how long you've been sailing, it's about having a dig. If you wait a couple of years you won't be able to do one for a couple of years ;) Whats the worst thats going to happen. You can do it!

If you can water start then gybing is the next step. You won't plane out of them for a while but as long as you can turn it around without getting wet you're saving lots of precious energy and you'll get more out of your sessions. Lots of helpful advice here but the best tip is to go for it! Get a video or lesson to learn the theory and then give it a go.

Although it was near ten years ago I can still recall getting my first - It's one of the most rewarding parts of sailing, knocking out a sweet gybe! Get on it and tell us how you go!

There are different ways people learn.
The two main groups for physical skills are Verbal and Visual learners.

A pure visual learner watches someone else doing something. They try to imagine how it feels. They try to put themselves in that persons body. They visualize it as a whole and visualize themselves doing it. Then they just go and try to do it as they have it in their minds eye.

By thinking about doing something and imagining yourself doing it you stimulate the actual nervous pathways from the brain to the muscles. Your body actually practices it as you visualize it. Then you just go an try to do it as you have it pictured in your mind.

Sure there are adjustments, coaching points that need to be emphasized, errors that need to be corrected, but good visual learners self diagnose well and often pick up new skills very quickly and very well.

The pure verbal learner likes to have every minute movement and step explained to them in great detail. Foot there, hand just there, arm in such and such position, lean this way, etc, etc. I am not a verbal learner and I am very challenged when I am trying to teach such a learner (one of my best windsurfing mates is the most extreme verbal learner I have ever met!). I struggle to see how VL's keep all that info in their heads and tick each move off as they do it, but somehow many of them do manage.

Since I am most definitely in the former category, my advice about learning to Gybe (and everything else for that matter) is to watch the best you have access to. Try to imaging yourself doing what they do, try to imagine how that would feel. Then go out and try to do it without over analyzing it to death. Be aware that this approach take great commitment! You must trust you body to do it. You must not be intimidated or fearful of a crash or failure. You just GO FOR IT!

You will fail! That is part of learning. But the more committed you are the faster you will learn. As far as Gybing goes, about the worst that can happen is that you get wet!

Imagine leaning forward and into the turn.
Imagine getting as much speed as possible to carry you through the turn. Speed is your friend.
Watch how the good carve gyber bears away for a few meters to accelerate before they start carving the board.
Imagine yourself doing all the things Glitch lists above:
"1. Don't rake the mast towards the back of the board.
2. Bend ze Knees.
3. Don't make the turn 180 degrees.
4. Commit to the turn.

and push the rig away from you leaning you rig into the turn.

Now watch as many videos of someone doing a sweet carve gybe as you can find. Put yourself in their body and mentally practice.

Next time you get the right conditions (planing), go for it! Water start and try again, and again, etc


Here is a good video to start you off:

Here is another of my good mate Spotty doing a lovely carve gybe for a nice Alpha:

sailquik said..

There are different ways people learn.
The two main groups for physical skills are Verbal and Visual learners.

The pure verbal learner likes to have every minute movement and step explained to them in great detail. Foot there, hand just there, arm in such and such position, lean this way, etc, etc. I struggle to see how VL's keep all that info in their heads and tick each move off as they do it, but somehow many of them do manage.

Sadly I am one of those verbal learners when it comes to gross motor skills, and I can tell you it is difficult to keep all that info in your head and execute a complex manoever like gybing which has to be done at speed. It takes heaps and heaps of repetitions because you just can't think fast enough to do everything step by step, and can only remember and execute a few steps at a time. I wish I could just watch and do, but I can't.
The funny thing is, fine motor tasks are no problem at all. In fact, fine precision work is my specialty. But gybing? I am still getting there. I am waiting for someone to explain in great detail the last bit for me so I can exit planing.

Popular topic and always is. Every time I make a comment on the gybe it is a different one. I think as you learn you keep finding things that need to be corrected to get that perfect combination. This move looks easy when done well but is in fact very difficult.
My latest discoveries.

Sheet in at the beginning. I seem to exit too slowly and drop off the plane. I always thought that it was my exits that were the problem. Not so. I was losing speed right at the beginning not at the end. Just imagine you are hanging off the boom to accelerate into the turn. Where is your body in respect to the sail and board? You are hanging back off the boom and unless your correct that, your weight will be back on the tail which is really going to slow you down. You have to think of your sail and your body as a system. If you really sheet in until such time as the bottom of your sail hits your leg, you are now across the board not back. All of a sudden you are facing more across the board with your weight forward and not sinking the tail.

Look where you are going. OK simple one. Sometimes as I exit the board stops carving and I head too far downwind. Easy fix.

Keep the rig away. Going for a great fast gybe, plenty of speed, go for the sail transition and the harness line has caught. Also an easy fix just a real pain when you forget.

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sailquik said..
A pure visual learner watches someone else doing something. They try to imagine how it feels. They try to put themselves in that persons body. They visualize it as a whole and visualize themselves doing it. Then they just go and try to do it as they have it in their minds eye.


You will fail! That is part of learning. But the more committed you are the faster you will learn. As far as Gybing goes, about the worst that can happen is that you get wet!

I am pretty much a visual learner although i just try to get as much information about what im doing as possible.

Also with these 40+ degrees days we've been having getting wet doesn't sound that bad, in fact i might just jump off to get in the water.
Also living in queenscliff means that when the winds blows up some of the best guys in Aus come down to swan bay, its so good. Such a great bunch of guys who i ask endless questions of about board size, harnesses, planing, gybing, water starts, whatever. I was sure their ears would fall off at some point but they are so enthusiastic about windsurfing, it's really great.

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Windxtasy said..

sailquik said..

There are different ways people learn.
The two main groups for physical skills are Verbal and Visual learners.

The pure verbal learner likes to have every minute movement and step explained to them in great detail. Foot there, hand just there, arm in such and such position, lean this way, etc, etc. I struggle to see how VL's keep all that info in their heads and tick each move off as they do it, but somehow many of them do manage.

Sadly I am one of those verbal learners when it comes to gross motor skills, and I can tell you it is difficult to keep all that info in your head and execute a complex manoever like gybing which has to be done at speed. It takes heaps and heaps of repetitions because you just can't think fast enough to do everything step by step, and can only remember and execute a few steps at a time. I wish I could just watch and do, but I can't.
The funny thing is, fine motor tasks are no problem at all. In fact, fine precision work is my specialty. But gybing? I am still getting there. I am waiting for someone to explain in great detail the last bit for me so I can exit planing.

I used to ( and should prob go back and start doing it again) practise one point at a time or notice what I did wrong after each gybe and then try & correct it.. sploosh.@!^*!! Didn't look to the exit..
Sploosh!@@ % Ok looked at the exit but didn't use downforce ..etc
Ive had a couple of nasty stacks catching a rail entering a gybe in chop..I usually pick a gust and go for it and try to find a smooth spot but that's not always possible..I figure I'm not using enough downforce entering , or going too fast or need to time my gybes for a better spot? Any ideas.. It doesn't happen very often but nasty when it does..
Usually Off Coal Point.
Should go there today to practise but I'll take the easy way out and go for some flatwater to try & get some speed PB's. Coal next time..

Sailing at Swan Bay you should learn to gybe in no time. Just give it a go and get some one to keep an eye on what you are doing right and what you are doing wrong. There is a lot of good tips here even though some advice conflicts with other advice, pick the minimum amount of info and go with that. What ever works for you. Even spend a session of doing almost nothing but gybing. Good luck. (By the way, don't get into the bad habit I picked up of grabbing the mast when flipping the sail. Go boom to boom).

Good point about 'Bad Habits'!

One of the worst things I see is someone with great commitment and patience trying over and over again, and practicing very bad technique. You don't want to practice bad techniques so much that they become very bad habits that are very hard to break.

This is where an experienced observer/teacher/coach can really help to identify very wrong things early so you don't get grooved into them and make them bad habits.

I can really recommend Guy Cribb's video - it definitely worked for me.

It's step-by-step, and the light wind gybe technique he starts you on gets you working out what to do with the rig early.

What I noticed with Sail quick's first video was that the sailor really committed his hips to the turn, keeping his centre of gravity to the inside. Also the footwork was very smooth with the steps looking very smooth and not disturbing the trim of the board.