Whats the main difference?

thinking of getting a NP Hellcat vs V8.

What sizes are you after?

Im on Cats, 5.7 & 6.7. Very nice

even in cambered sails, there are BIG differences
there are 2 cambered narrow luff free-race sails
there are wide sleeve 2-3 cambered free-race sails
and then there are the RACE sails - wide sleeve with 4 - 5 cambers

unless you are racing, it feels like the current trend is away from cambers ...
sails are lighter and just about as good as cambered free-race sails

Weight and softness and ease of use .
if you do a bit of jumping ,no cam .

no cam sails are pretty fast these days .
i have both ,but I mostly grab the no cam ,always in a hurry to rig up .
always chop hopping .....if you GPS cams have better top end .

if your just a free rider and just like blasting around ..I would go no- cam .

Biggest difference is that the camber is held constant (by the camber inducers) in a cammed sail and in a battened sail the camber is only held by sail cut/shape when unloaded and then increased by pressure when loaded. This means light wind load performance of a cammed sail will be better than that of a lightly loaded battened sail and they should power up and take off smoother because the camber is held constant. The practical difference is why I've not bothered with cammed sails yet, uncammed are quick and easy to rig and they have no moving parts. For an intermediate type learner like me they don't have a luff pocket full of water for me to uphaul when I need to and they also unload almost completely in the neutral position when I tack or want to let power off.

2 cambered narrow luff free-race sails do not take longer to rig
nor do they fill up the luff with water when dropped
not too much more difficult to uphaul or water start
these sails need to be rigged close to specifications or battens can break
(Ezzy Lion seems popular)

the more difficult ones are the full on race sails ...
heavy when the wind or sail drops
have to uphaul quickly before luff fills and i never managed to water start a big race sail
some people also have issues with cambers flipping to other side - break in time and proper rigging required
also - i always strongly suggest high carbon matching mast and ideally carbon boom
and so, you can see - $$$ and sense required
some say the rigging of race sails is a PITA, but it is NOT really that bad !!
joewindsurfer.blogspot.com/2013/06/rigging-cambered-race-sail.html

also:
joewindsurfer.blogspot.ca/2012/09/wide-luff-vs-free-race-sails.html

I strategically intersperse them....

5.8...6.3... ...7.0.... ...8.0...9.5 in cams.
5.8_____6.6____ 7.5 in no cams

The no-cams at least get me on the water in reasonable shape when the #$@#%@#%@# battens break on the cammed sails when rigging

(It is scientifically proven that batten breakages while rigging correlate with the best wind of any given season in any given location)

I've never broken a batten rigging a cammed sail. Guess I know what's going to happen next time I go out...
wide luff race sails are actually easier to thread the mast and once you learn the correct downhaul/outhaul sequence, getting the cams on is also easy. My old narrow luff sleeve 4 cam Tushy X15 was a real pain to rig though.
I don't reckon size for size, race sails are best for getting planning. If you are an active sailor a no cam is probably better for pumping onto the plane - they have more "spring". Once going, yes the race sail will keep going through the lulls better.

Cammed sails definately respond & accelerate quicker from gusts,more of a direct harsher pull. The draft is held in its correct profile by the cams.
Non cammed sail feels SLIGHTLY slower & softer to accelerate from gusts because it relies on the wind to fully shape the sail draft to the correct profile before sail makes full power. Hence the smoother feel. I enjoy the raw aggressive pull of a fully cammed race sail. But if waterstarts are a common thing a non cammed sail is much easier to manage. Horses for courses...

i can't help but to observe that the answers here, though clearly very well meaning, have missed the mark by a considerable margin.

I would point out that there are no such things as a generic 'cammed' or 'No Cammed' 'type' of sail. The individual interpretations of those genera vary so much between models and manufactures that no general statements can possibly be very helpful. The crossover on rigging ease, power and stability is so great that general statements are next to meaningless.

The OP asked specifically about the differences between a NP Hellcat and a NP V8. I am sure these must be somebody out there who has owned and operated both specific sails who could actually give useful observations.

I've gone from North e_type (no-cam performance) to s-type (2/3 cam) to Warp (full race) over the last three years. The differences are really:

1) In the lulls, the no cam tends to flatten off and it's harder to maintain speed.
2) You have to adjust the no cam much more to get the same wind range. The e-type needed the outhaul tightened progressively at the upper end. The Warp can handle anything. The s-type is somewhere in between.
3) It's not such a big jump from e-type to s-type but big jump in terms of physicality to the Warp especially in water starting.
4) Top speed when the conditions are right isn't a huge difference. A good sailor will keep up on a no cam with a race sail. But the conditions have to be just right for the no cam. The cambered sails will get more out of conditions either side of perfect.

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sailquik said..
i can't help but to observe that the answers here, though clearly very well meaning, have missed the mark by a considerable margin.

The OP asked specifically about the differences between a NP Hellcat and a NP V8. I am sure these must be somebody out there who has owned and operated both specific sails who could actually give useful observations.

I have , well almost ...
I have a NP Hellcat 7.7 and a NP H2 8.7 which i think is very close to the V8 . Also have a new NP V8 9.4 which i haven't used.
I prefer the cammed H2 because it holds its shape better ( bigger wind range ) . It only has two cams , ( like the V8 ) And a small luff pocket ( like the V8 ) which doesn't seem to fill with water any more than the Hellcat. The H2 ,( or V8 ) inst a lot heavier but the cams need to snap over the other side , whereas my Hellcat 2015 battens dont touch the mast so there is no rotation at all. They both hold good forward draft shape. The H2 goes through lulls better. H2 takes a little longer to rig , both need huge down-haul.
V8 costs more , both look sexy. New V8 cam system is better than my H2 system.
If your heavy go the V8.
Hope this helps

The cammed sails work better heading upwind.

An extra 3 to 5 knotts differance in speed in the very highend when motoring down your fav speed strip.l have downgraded all my fully cammered sails to freerace or rotational sails.you cannot beat a fully camed sail in the right hands.

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sailquik said..
i can't help but to observe that the answers here, though clearly very well meaning, have missed the mark by a considerable margin.

I would point out that there are no such things as a generic 'cammed' or 'No Cammed' 'type' of sail. The individual interpretations of those genera vary so much between models and manufactures that no general statements can possibly be very helpful. The crossover on rigging ease, power and stability is so great that general statements are next to meaningless.

The OP asked specifically about the differences between a NP Hellcat and a NP V8. I am sure these must be somebody out there who has owned and operated both specific sails who could actually give useful observations.

One uses more petrol than the other

Select to expand quote

Imax1 said..

sailquik said..
i can't help but to observe that the answers here, though clearly very well meaning, have missed the mark by a considerable margin.

The OP asked specifically about the differences between a NP Hellcat and a NP V8. I am sure these must be somebody out there who has owned and operated both specific sails who could actually give useful observations.

I have , well almost ...
I have a NP Hellcat 7.7 and a NP H2 8.7 which i think is very close to the V8 . Also have a new NP V8 9.4 which i haven't used.
I prefer the cammed H2 because it holds its shape better ( bigger wind range ) . It only has two cams , ( like the V8 ) And a small luff pocket ( like the V8 ) which doesn't seem to fill with water any more than the Hellcat. The H2 ,( or V8 ) inst a lot heavier but the cams need to snap over the other side , whereas my Hellcat 2015 battens dont touch the mast so there is no rotation at all. They both hold good forward draft shape. The H2 goes through lulls better. H2 takes a little longer to rig , both need huge down-haul.
V8 costs more , both look sexy. New V8 cam system is better than my H2 system.
If your heavy go the V8.
Hope this helps

I have a H2 with my other freeride sails. One of the main differences is manouverability. The Freeride sails allow you to throw the board around and ride the swells. In contrast, the two cammed sail likes to maintain its line.