Do you rig all cam sails the same?

1. insert into luff and a little bit of downhaul...
2. attach boom - so outhaul...
3. repeat 1 and 2 numerous times
4. pop cams onto mast.....

I have an old KA Koncept 7.5 and not so sure this works well when rigging mine....?

Are there other ways to rig a cam sail?

Cheers advanced.

1. Insert mast over top of battens/cams and downhaul to remove all crinkles, but *do not* leave tension applied.
2. Connect boom and apply lots of outhaul tension.
3. Apply downhaul tension.
4. Adjust outhaul tension to suit.

... assumes that your mast extension and boom length is somewhat correct.

Best way I find to rig my 6.6m KA concept is to feed the mast in with the cams above it ( I was told to put them below but as a weakling I find it much easier to pop them on by pushing down rather than up..).Downhaul a bit then outhaul heaps pop the cams on and downhaul the rest.Then adjust outhaul to suit the conditions. Dont know if thats correct but it works for me!

Thanks heaps guys.

While I am out at - a few mates have been debating the merits of cam free sails - is it such a problem to have cams? Even at learning stage? eg. water starts etc? Or just man up and sail?

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sboardcrazy said...

Best way I find to rig my 6.6m KA concept is to feed the mast in with the cams above it ( I was told to put them below but as a weakling I find it much easier to pop them on by pushing down rather than up..).Downhaul a bit then outhaul heaps pop the cams on and downhaul the rest.Then adjust outhaul to suit the conditions. Dont know if thats correct but it works for me!

K-Dog, this is why the luff ripped.

you should have snapped the cams onto the sail afterwards rather than try to push the sails directly onto the cams.

The I think that they take more force to snap on than usual because I think we tried that and were freaking out that we would break the cams.

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K Dog said...

While I am out at - a few mates have been debating the merits of cam free sails - is it such a problem to have cams? Even at learning stage? eg. water starts etc? Or just man up and sail?

I used a cammed sail as my second ever sail I bought, and I found no problems with it other than the initial rigging. They hold their shape better than non cammed sails and in gusty wind this can be a huge benefit.

The types of cams on my sail, which was about a 2001 NP V8, are the type where you have to thread the mast through the cams and then downhaul. When the cams get old and worn they tend to pop off the mast or bend in the luff tube.

Most (all?) the modern cammed sails seem to have the downhaul, then pop the cams on the mast, idea. I first saw it on Ezzy Infinities, but I think all are like this now. It is a heaps better system.

Just the other day I tried to rig my 2005 6.6m NP V8, which has the old style cam setup and what a PITA it was.

When I rig my V8s and Koncepts, the cams snap on easily, but it takes a little while to get the knack of exactly how its done.

Yeah, water starts are going to be a little bit harder, but once you have the technique sorted, it is not much more difficult unless you are stuck in huge rolling swell or are water starting a 12m race sail with a huge luff full of water...

I went on a trip to Dahab a few years back and I far preferred their 8 and 8.5m cammed sails to their non cammed (6 to 7.5m) wave sails that were more suitable to the wind strength. The wind was so gusty that the cammed sails were more controllable, and the wave sails would be twitchy.

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mathew said...

1. Insert mast over top of battens/cams and downhaul to remove all crinkles, but *do not* leave tension applied.
2. Connect boom and apply lots of outhaul tension.
3. Apply downhaul tension.
4. Adjust outhaul tension to suit.

... assumes that your mast extension and boom length is somewhat correct.

I think Matt ment to mean "release the downhaul tension after you put the boom on and outhaul the sail".
Some cams sails however can rig straight on the mast, most manufacture's will have there how to rig guides on the website.

As Vando said above once you have attached the boom and outhauled, release the downhaul tension then pop the cams on, then downhaul again to required setting. Get this step wrong and it will not be a pleasant exercise.

PS - I usually put on as much downhaul as I can (about 4-5cm off max) so outhaul can be set to the max setting which seems to allow easier placement of cams onto mast.

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K Dog said...

While I am out at - a few mates have been debating the merits of cam free sails - is it such a problem to have cams? Even at learning stage? eg. water starts etc? Or just man up and sail?

K Dog, I have 2 Koncepts & rig them pretty much as everyone has said (mast over cams).
I tested a new Tushingham Lightning the other week & it was the easiest cammed sail I have ever rigged, piece of P#ss and the performance was almost comparable to the koncept, 1 more cam seems to make a difference.

If you are still learning, do yourself a favour & get a cam free sail, KA Koyote or Tushy T-bird T4, picked up a new T4 last night both easy to rig & not much slower than a cammed sail, very user friendly.

With a cammed sail you will have a couple of near drowning experiences
Water starting in big chop or swell can be difficult with a cammed sail but your gybing will improve

Now don't throw rocks at me cos I've never actually rigged a Koncept but this is what has worked for all my cammed sails...

1. Insert mast over top of battens/cams and downhaul to remove all crinkles.
2. Connect boom and apply lots of outhaul tension, even set boom a hole over spec.
3. Now release downhaul.
4. Now snap cams on (push down on luff pocket seam with heal of one hand and up on cam with the other hand, thumb over top of mast and squeeze).
5. Apply downhaul tension to spec.
6. Adjust outhaul tension to spec.
7. Now play with adjustments as needed.
8. Have fun.

As for no cam sails there's nothing wrong with the modern ones, a lot of people would be very happy with these

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vando said...

I think Matt ment to mean "release the downhaul tension after you put the boom on and outhaul the sail".
Some cams sails however can rig straight on the mast, most manufacture's will have there how to rig guides on the website.

nup - definitely release all downhaul before attempting connection of the boom to the mast... this allows you push the boom in far enough to it to the mast.

I did however forget to mention how to push the cams on... what a doofus... it should read:

1. Insert mast over top of battens/cams and downhaul to remove all crinkles, but *do not* leave tension applied.
2. Connect boom and apply lots of outhaul tension.
3. Apply 3/4 downhaul tension.
4. Snap cams onto mast by:
- make sure cam zippers / velcro is open
- place your left hand on the luff-pocket seam
- put you palm of your right hand on the cam
- push down on your left hand (thus stretching the material) and push up with your right palm
- the cam should push on quite easily, although you might think you are pushing too hard on the seam
5. Apply required downhaul.
6. Adjust outhaul tension to suit.

Basically you shouldn't really need to keep adjusting your downhaul / outhaul more than once or twice... if its more than that, you are probably not doing it right. In some cases you may not even need to apply any downhaul before attaching the cams to the mast.

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mathew said...

vando said...

I think Matt ment to mean "release the downhaul tension after you put the boom on and outhaul the sail".
Some cams sails however can rig straight on the mast, most manufacture's will have there how to rig guides on the website.

nup - definitely release all downhaul before attempting connection of the boom to the mast... this allows you push the boom in far enough to it to the mast.

I did however forget to mention how to push the cams on... what a doofus... it should read:

1. Insert mast over top of battens/cams and downhaul to remove all crinkles, but *do not* leave tension applied.
2. Connect boom and apply lots of outhaul tension.
3. Apply 3/4 downhaul tension.
4. Snap cams onto mast by:
- make sure cam zippers / velcro is open
- place your left hand on the luff-pocket seam
- put you palm of your right hand on the cam
- push down on your left hand (thus stretching the material) and push up with your right palm
- the cam should push on quite easily, although you might think you are pushing too hard on the seam
5. Apply required downhaul.
6. Adjust outhaul tension to suit.

Basically you shouldn't really need to keep adjusting your downhaul / outhaul more than once or twice... if its more than that, you are probably not doing it right. In some cases you may not even need to apply any downhaul before attaching the cams to the mast.

Release all downhaul before attaching boom ?
Why bother downhauling at all then?
Adding the boom without downhauling means your boom is going onto the mast at the wrong height?
Definitely add boom then release downhaul any product web site confirms this for modern cam sail rigging.

You need to downhaul first before putting the boom. This is required to force the mast outwards of the wide mast sleave to where you can access it to put the boom head on.

You can do either.

You can thread the mast in over the top of the battens, downhaul until the mast appears in the boom slot, put the boom on, attatch outhaul and tighten then release downhaul tension enough to pop the cams on.

Lately I have been threading the mast over the battens puting the boom on first with everything loose but not clamping it up. Thread downhaul then tension about 10cm shy of max. Clamp the boom, attatch and tighten outhaul, pop on cams.

It is really a personal prefference but I am finding the latter easier.

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jermaldan said...

sboardcrazy said...

Best way I find to rig my 6.6m KA concept is to feed the mast in with the cams above it ( I was told to put them below but as a weakling I find it much easier to pop them on by pushing down rather than up..).Downhaul a bit then outhaul heaps pop the cams on and downhaul the rest.Then adjust outhaul to suit the conditions. Dont know if thats correct but it works for me!

K-Dog, this is why the luff ripped.

you should have snapped the cams onto the sail afterwards rather than try to push the sails directly onto the cams.

The I think that they take more force to snap on than usual because I think we tried that and were freaking out that we would break the cams.

They take a lot of pressure.I was too careful with them at first..

Appreciate all the feedback / instructions and video linkage - will be applying this next time I rig up!

PS - we ripped it cause its luff is pretty worn and old.....

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drift said...

mr love said...

http://www.kasail.com/windsurfing/tuning_guide_09.html

Also, theres some Rigging video content here

#g/c/56A3B89DD3C9C7DF

Aah! Now I know why my downhaul often crossthreads & locks on so I have to use a screwdriver to undo it..I'll thread it differently next time..

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WindRider said...

You need to downhaul first before putting the boom. This is required to force the mast outwards of the wide mast sleeve to where you can access it to put the boom head on.

Nope. Don't downhaul to remove wrinkles at all. Leave it loose to put boom on so you can push boom onto mast without luff tension and then outhaul to max. Still leave it loose while you snap cams on. Only then should you downhaul.

See how it's best done here: http://www.kasail.com/windsurfing/sails/2008/ka%20_koncept_2008_rigging_guide.pdf

Later model sails need the exact same procedure (except for the small ones, they were different up until 2008 and the pictures show. Now you use the same procedure for all sizes). Note loose downhaul, particularly in picture 12.

dont get one there 70`s technology outdated

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sailquik said...

WindRider said...

You need to downhaul first before putting the boom. This is required to force the mast outwards of the wide mast sleeve to where you can access it to put the boom head on.

Nope. Don't downhaul to remove wrinkles at all. Leave it loose to put boom on so you can push boom onto mast without luff tension and then outhaul to max. Still leave it loose while you snap cams on. Only then should you downhaul.

See how it's best done here: http://www.kasail.com/windsurfing/sails/2008/ka%20_koncept_2008_rigging_guide.pdf

Later model sails need the exact same procedure (except for the small ones, they were different up until 2008 and the pictures show. Now you use the same procedure for all sizes). Note loose downhaul, particularly in picture 12.

I will definately give this a try next time as I've always found that since the cam zippers are on the starboard side my KA sail (as opposed to my Code Reds) and most boom heads are easier to clamp when rigging port side, clamping has always been troublesome if downhaul is applied and luff pocket is taut.

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firiebob said...

Now don't throw rocks at me cos I've never actually rigged a Koncept but this is what has worked for all my cammed sails...

1. Insert mast over top of battens/cams and downhaul to remove all crinkles.
2. Connect boom and apply lots of outhaul tension, even set boom a hole over spec.
3. Now release downhaul.
4. Now snap cams on (push down on luff pocket seam with heal of one hand and up on cam with the other hand, thumb over top of mast and squeeze).
5. Apply downhaul tension to spec.
6. Adjust outhaul tension to spec.
7. Now play with adjustments as needed.
8. Take shirt off.
9. Have fun.

As for no cam sails there's nothing wrong with the modern ones, a lot of people would be very happy with these

Sorry Firie, hope you don't mind me adding a little correction