I did windsurfing years ago only on a long board, just bought a 85l short board as it was going cheap ! I'm planning to buy another board (long) that comes with three sails 6m 7m and a smaller one. I have just seen another short board of 150 litres which might be more realistic?? Any advice ? Is it worth buying too if the price is right ( I'm on a budget ! So don't just say " buy some decent new gear !")

On a budget, the 150ltr short board sounds the better bet for light wind planning. What's your weight?

I'm about 85kg

How difficult is a 85l board to master ? I'm a good swimmer if it goes tits up !

Sorry, its 88liters ,so I guess it would just about float !

85 kg rider needs 100 liters to float, especially one unskilled.
Most 70 kg skilled windsurfers can barely uphaul 88 liter boards.

It'll be sinky with your weight and sail weight. To take it out, you'll need a sail big enough to waterstart with on a windy day.
You can learn to ride sinky boards in light conditions but it needs to be flat and friendly with an easy way back. Don't take it out in rough swells until you can waterstart reliably.

If you can't waterstart, learn first before you just frustrate yourself trying to ride a board close to your weight in volume. It's going to be difficult to balance on without good power in the sail and knowing how to manage it.

A 88 litre boards weighs around 6 kg
A sail, mast, boom, extension and base weigh around 10 kgs
A wetsuit and harness weigh around 2 kgs
Hence your total weight is 85+6+10+2 = 103 kgs
Hence you need at least 103 litre board for neutral buoyancy. Neutral buoyancy is not enough to comfortably uphaul a sail.
A good rule is that a competent sailor needs at least 20litre more than their body weight to be able to comfortably uphaul their sail.
A beginner needs at least 40 litres more than their body weight to comfortably uphaul their sail.
Hence you need a least a 125lit board, so your 150lit board is OK to start on.
Progression from this should be to a 110 to 125 lit board depending on how you progress with water starting

There are some very helpful answers here, even though it's not a question easily answered on the internet.

Apart from literage or flotation, the board width and length and a flatter rockerline can also be key to its stability.

You then add your body weight plus rig weight and that rig weight can also vary a lot depending on the brand and carbon content of the mast etc.

Your skill is then crucial, plus I'd add that sailing on flat water in 6m weather is one thing but launching into rougher water when there's a current running requires more float and/or more skill.

So the realistic advice would be to pay safe with float initially, and to expect to update your gear down the line as you get more proficient.

Select to expand quote

aeroegnr said..
It'll be sinky with your weight and sail weight. To take it out, you'll need a sail big enough to waterstart with on a windy day.
You can learn to ride sinky boards in light conditions but it needs to be flat and friendly with an easy way back. Don't take it out in rough swells until you can waterstart reliably.

If you can't waterstart, learn first before you just frustrate yourself trying to ride a board close to your weight in volume. It's going to be difficult to balance on without good power in the sail and knowing how to manage it.

Absolutely right. In my experience, coming from the same path that the original poster, I went from a 148L board to a 98L and it was too sharp a change. A change that really lasted 1H until I gave up and learnt that I would have to increase volume again. I weight 67K, I can easily uphaul and blast in any direction but can't water start yet. As old gear can be found really cheap, I have a Tabou Rocket 105L that I tried a few times and was OK (I can uphaul it with ease) and a 120L Mistral Explosion than I haven't sailed yet but I feel would be a perfect step from the big one until I learn and can "land into 105L nirvana"

Thanks for all the advise really helpful, looks like it maybe in the shed for a while ! Still something to aim for I guess. Thanks again

Select to expand quote

peter608 said..
Thanks for all the advise really helpful, looks like it maybe in the shed for a while ! Still something to aim for I guess. Thanks again

How are your water starts?

Select to expand quote

JPBARNA said..

aeroegnr said..
It'll be sinky with your weight and sail weight. To take it out, you'll need a sail big enough to waterstart with on a windy day.
You can learn to ride sinky boards in light conditions but it needs to be flat and friendly with an easy way back. Don't take it out in rough swells until you can waterstart reliably.

If you can't waterstart, learn first before you just frustrate yourself trying to ride a board close to your weight in volume. It's going to be difficult to balance on without good power in the sail and knowing how to manage it.

Absolutely right. In my experience, coming from the same path that the original poster, I went from a 148L board to a 98L and it was too sharp a change. A change that really lasted 1H until I gave up and learnt that I would have to increase volume again. I weight 67K, I can easily uphaul and blast in any direction but can't water start yet. As old gear can be found really cheap, I have a Tabou Rocket 105L that I tried a few times and was OK (I can uphaul it with ease) and a 120L Mistral Explosion than I haven't sailed yet but I feel would be a perfect step from the big one until I learn and can "land into 105L nirvana"

I got lucky on my 5th or so time trying an old 102L JP. I struggled a few days thinking I could get going but couldn't. I'm about 85kg. I could already waterstart, not that well, but it was a day that my 6.6 was a little overpowered and I was able to waterstart, hang on, and plane.

Problem is I couldn't jibe that board at all and getting back to the beach was very stressful in those conditions after I fell in and struggled to waterstart.

If it's marginal, I use my 115 dyno now because I can shlogg and sometimes even uphaul if it's flat water. In the waves, I really want to be well powered or drop the boom low to make waterstarting easier than planing.

I would recommend you to search for an about 120lt freeride board. Once you learn to waterstart 150lt will be unnecessarily big and it will hinder your progression.
88lt would be very hard for now, maybe in one or two years. It would be better if you could replace it with an about 100lt board.

Learning to waterstart took me 1 day, when i found out that i couldnt uphaul my new board (was +25lt from my weight in kg), its easy to learn if you try hard on a windy day, and it is a very important milestone for mentality on water (not hesitating to try new moves, not being afraid of falling in knowing you can waterstart, spending much less energy).

Select to expand quote

Sea Lotus said..
I would recommend you to search for an about 120lt freeride board. Once you learn to waterstart 150lt will be unnecessarily big and it will hinder your progression.
88lt would be very hard for now, maybe in one or two years. It would be better if you could replace it with an about 100lt board.

Learning to waterstart took me 1 day, when i found out that i couldnt uphaul my new board (was +25lt from my weight in kg), its easy to learn if you try hard on a windy day, and it is a very important milestone for mentality on water (not hesitating to try new moves, not being afraid of falling in knowing you can waterstart, spending much less energy).

Define "windy day" enough for waterstart, please.

Depending on the will to sail sometimes I think it's windy if more than 5kn :-)

Select to expand quote

JPBARNA said..

Sea Lotus said..
I would recommend you to search for an about 120lt freeride board. Once you learn to waterstart 150lt will be unnecessarily big and it will hinder your progression.
88lt would be very hard for now, maybe in one or two years. It would be better if you could replace it with an about 100lt board.

Learning to waterstart took me 1 day, when i found out that i couldnt uphaul my new board (was +25lt from my weight in kg), its easy to learn if you try hard on a windy day, and it is a very important milestone for mentality on water (not hesitating to try new moves, not being afraid of falling in knowing you can waterstart, spending much less energy).

Define "windy day" enough for waterstart, please.

Depending on the will to sail sometimes I think it's windy if more than 5kn :-)

I need somewhere north of 10kts to waterstart my 9.5 in the normal boom height (high).

Quite a bit more for a 5.0. You won't know until you try and learn to recognize the pull you need.

Select to expand quote

JPBARNA said..

Sea Lotus said..
I would recommend you to search for an about 120lt freeride board. Once you learn to waterstart 150lt will be unnecessarily big and it will hinder your progression.
88lt would be very hard for now, maybe in one or two years. It would be better if you could replace it with an about 100lt board.

Learning to waterstart took me 1 day, when i found out that i couldnt uphaul my new board (was +25lt from my weight in kg), its easy to learn if you try hard on a windy day, and it is a very important milestone for mentality on water (not hesitating to try new moves, not being afraid of falling in knowing you can waterstart, spending much less energy).

Define "windy day" enough for waterstart, please.

Depending on the will to sail sometimes I think it's windy if more than 5kn :-)

Enough wind to well power the sail and plane .

Forget about the 88L until you have mastered waterstarts!
I'm 85 Kg and uphauling on my 130L works, but just, and but can be challenging in waves. So I would say go for at least 125L

Select to expand quote

JPBARNA said..

Sea Lotus said..
I would recommend you to search for an about 120lt freeride board. Once you learn to waterstart 150lt will be unnecessarily big and it will hinder your progression.
88lt would be very hard for now, maybe in one or two years. It would be better if you could replace it with an about 100lt board.

Learning to waterstart took me 1 day, when i found out that i couldnt uphaul my new board (was +25lt from my weight in kg), its easy to learn if you try hard on a windy day, and it is a very important milestone for mentality on water (not hesitating to try new moves, not being afraid of falling in knowing you can waterstart, spending much less energy).

Define "windy day" enough for waterstart, please.

Depending on the will to sail sometimes I think it's windy if more than 5kn :-)

It is easier to waterstart with small sails, mainly due to less distance to clear the clew from water but olso less weight, less drag in water when rotating it perpendicular to wind, less tiring, more tries per given session is faster learning process.
Smallest sail you got with enough wind power to get you on plane easily would be best option, something smaller than 5.5 would be good, maybe thats at least 18kts for a 85kg person(?).

Select to expand quote

LeeD said..
85 kg rider needs 100 liters to float, especially one unskilled.
Most 70 kg skilled windsurfers can barely uphaul 88 liter boards.

Bomb proof water start is a must on "sinker". That is, underpowered to overpowered conditions. At 60kg I can barely uphaul my 86L old school (55cm wide) wave board. Up here when the wind dies, the chop still hangs around. Uphauling a relatively low volume board in rough seas is a pita. Used a 69L JP Wave board when the wind really kicked in. Similar to you in terms of volume to weight using the 85L. Never tried to uphaul that board. Very much doubt if I could.

For all in one board a nice size to go with is your weight +20

Select to expand quote

Loreni said..
For all in one board a nice size to go with is your weight +20

That's assuming he has nice consistent and reliable wind..otherwise go bigger..

Select to expand quote

peter608 said..
Sorry, its 88liters ,so I guess it would just about float !

Nope it's a sinker. A long board , mistral One Design, original Wally etc will be a great forever board. Long boards still have a place.

Select to expand quote

Heilbuth said..
Forget about the 88L until you have mastered waterstarts!
I'm 85 Kg and uphauling on my 130L works, but just, and but can be challenging in waves. So I would say go for at least 125L

Yep, at 70 Kg, it is indeed a bit tricky to uphaul a 110 liter boards with a 7.5-8.0. I never try uphauling anything smaller ...

Select to expand quote

OldGuy3 said..

LeeD said..
85 kg rider needs 100 liters to float, especially one unskilled.
Most 70 kg skilled windsurfers can barely uphaul 88 liter boards.

Bomb proof water start is a must on "sinker". That is, underpowered to overpowered conditions. At 60kg I can barely uphaul my 86L old school (55cm wide) wave board. Up here when the wind dies, the chop still hangs around. Uphauling a relatively low volume board in rough seas is a pita. Used a 69L JP Wave board when the wind really kicked in. Similar to you in terms of volume to weight using the 85L. Never tried to uphaul that board. Very much doubt if I could.

It once watched a long YouTube video on waterstaring, I will share if I can find it again. Was really cool. I think I still have to do step 2 (step one was fall down close to the board).

this one!

91kg plus 5mm wetsuit, 110L is pretty well my minimum to uphaul in any chop. Wider is easier.

The other thing to keep in mind is board construction. I had a early 2000's Bic Nova 180L board, it was heavy at 30 pounds, and was solid core (no vent screw). At 86 kg I could uphaul a 9.0 sail okay with it. Then I went to a JP MagicRide 142L, it was 18 pounds, and hollow core (had vent screw), it was a lot more floaty than the Bic Nova 180L board.