My question for those who have been in the game for some time is in regard to the best way to progress down from larger boards to the shorter variety. I was wondering what pathways others were able to advance. It would be helpful to know the volume you started with and the different sizes you spent time on as you progressed. As I am getting ready to move on from my trusty 146L, I am considering the options for my next purchase. Freeriding, not waves is the main gig. The further I look into this the more I understand why a lot of riders have so many boards in their quiver...they also have understanding wives

Weight, age and physical attributes may also weigh into the mix, so there may not be a specific formula, just a few guidelines.

once you can water start just get on a smaller board and you will find the rest will fall into place

How constant is the wind where you sail? If its fairly gusty, ie 20 knots for 10 seconds and 5 knots for 30 seconds, then a bigger board will be more fun but in constant stronger winds a smaller board is more controllable and fun.

G'day MarkSSC,

I am 46 and weigh a bit over 90kg. Started windsurfing about 10 months ago on a 150lt SUP. Not long after I bought a 145lt Freeride which was great for getting the basics of harness lines, footstraps, water starting and gybing (slowly) happening. I do have a 115lt Thommen Freeride/race board which is a bit of a battle for me. But I have also learnt a bit from it as well. Good fun and plenty speed when you get it going but it's a bit harsh in sloppy conditions.
I sailed a 115lt Naish Starship FSW board on Maui last month. It was a lot easier to ride and fun at Kanaha compared to what my other board would have been.
Thats what I have done so far and 115lt seems like a good size to progress on for me.

P.S there has been a 112lt wave board snuck into the shed in the last week. Which should be good fun if ever we get some wind down here one day.

Catchya PK

Very useful feedback...thanks. The jump from 146 to 115 seems to be at the more challenging end of the ballpark. May depend on the type of board though. Some of the new generation of thinner and wider freeride boards, such as the Magic Ride, Atomic and Gecko, have advantage of performing like a small board while having the stability of a larger board.

My weight is around 78kgs and I am in my fifties. May not be as agile or bullet proof compared to my younger years. Holding on for grim life or splitting sails from a catapult re-entry is not my favoured option. Realistically, I now think that anything below 115L is possibly too slippery.

I sail at a couple of locations along the coast. The winds can have their ups and down by not by extremes. One of the reasons for this post is to avoid having too much gear, so matching the conditions is important. This priority may have to be set aside though if logic decrees that I should have one or two intermediate boards as I venture down to the more versatile shorter boards.

Do you have the following skills down pat?:
- Water Start successfully
- Hooked into the harness straps
- Both feet in the foot straps when planing
- At least trying to gybe
If so, then look at getting a free ride board with about 30 litres more than your body weight. I.E if you weigh 80kg then try a 110lit board. This way you should be able to up haul it if you get into trouble.

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MarkSSC said..
The further I look into this the more I understand why a lot of riders have so many boards in their quiver.

Hi Mark, I sort of disagree there. A lot of sailors I know are very Spartan with gear. Mostly two board setup, some with 1 board only. However, you do have 'freaks of nature' who arrive at the rigging area with 10 boards packed in their van.

I own 4 boards, but they are cross over redundant. Nothing worse than 4 days of seabreezes, and you crack your nose on day 1

I went from a 150L board, down to a 110L freeride board. This size became my big gear. From there, I went to a 85L tri-style board for general purpose sailing. 85L is my bread and butter board. I'm 74kg and 175cm high.

Good luck with your next board

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jn1 said..

MarkSSC said..
The further I look into this the more I understand why a lot of riders have so many boards in their quiver.

Hi Mark, I sort of disagree there. A lot of sailors I know are very Spartan with gear. Mostly two board setup, some with 1 board only.

This is reassuring. More money for sails??!!

Don't make the mistake of believing you need smaller boards to progress nor is the volume of your board a measure of your progression.

A board that gives you the most time on the water is the one that will progress you in the sport the fastest.

I forgot to mention. I still have the 145lt board for lighter wind days and still have fun sailing and learning with it.

Totally agree with your comments cammd.Most of my gear is 25 years or older stuff that I learned on. When I jumped on the new gear it felt so nice and comfortable to ride that it felt like my skills took a huge leap forward. Of course they didn't they were already there but were easier to use and therefore exposed by using the newer gear . If you you can catch my drift you might be able to understand why i strongly agree with you.

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cammd said..
Don't make the mistake of believing you need smaller boards to progress nor is the volume of your board a measure of your progression.

A board that gives you the most time on the water is the one that will progress you in the sport the fastest.

Does this mean that you need to have specific boards to meet wind conditions? I know my bigger board is not so god when the wind gets up towards 20knts. If so, then a smaller rig might give more quality time on the water. What do you think?

thanks

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MarkSSC said...

cammd said..
Don't make the mistake of believing you need smaller boards to progress nor is the volume of your board a measure of your progression.

A board that gives you the most time on the water is the one that will progress you in the sport the fastest.

Does this mean that you need to have specific boards to meet wind conditions? I know my bigger board is not so god when the wind gets up towards 20knts. If so, then a smaller rig might give more quality time on the water. What do you think?

thanks

The general idea is that as the wind increases the size of the board and the rig decreases together but need is a strong word. Say you stay on the water with a bigger rig as the wind picks up then your going to increase your skills at being overpowered and that can be a great skill to have so to as you stay out with a smaller rig when the wind gets light then you will improve your skills at being underpowered. Now by doing this you are broadening your skill set and when the wind gets gusty you won't have such a bad time of it. It's all about what you enjoy personally I get a real buzz out of being overpowered and not just going fast.

Mark (?) I see you are female so may not want to mention weight! Anyway, a general measure for wave boards is weight + 10%, I know this
doesn't apply & you will probably only be sailing lakes or choppy waters? Freeride/slalom boards this measure doesn't apply so much.

Many of the flatwater sailors you may see with their smallest sails around 6.0 and as waterpistol said some like being powered up or overpowered.

You should try and use a smaller non-cambered sail or wave sail on a bigger board - not sure what sails you have atm. Obviously technique/skill can
overcome your size/weight. Sail in moderate winds if possible. Talk to other sailors, not sure where you sail in QLD but plenty of sailors near Bris and
the GC. There are many 'technique' videos you can search for.

I only have 2 boards but 3 kids so yes, my wife is pretty understanding!

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cammd said..
Don't make the mistake of believing you need smaller boards to progress nor is the volume of your board a measure of your progression.

A board that gives you the most time on the water is the one that will progress you in the sport the fastest.

Good call, Cammd.

Small boards (say volume of your weight and around 10 litres above) are great for windy days if you're experienced, but they're can make progression very frustrating and slow if you're relatively new to the sport.

I've been sailing for nearly 3 years, and for me the most used board is a free-ride approx 30 litres above my weight (I'm 80 kg, using a 111 litre). This size will do most folks from 2-20 knots- which is 80 percent of the time. Those 20-25 knot days, your weight up to 20 litres above your is doable. Over 25 knots is another world of skill and board size, only manageable once you've become proficient in the lighter conditions.

If you're a back and forth sailor, you could happily get away with 2 boards- say one 10, and another 30 litres above your weight. This makes board choice simple when you arrive at waters edge, and allows you to get a good feel for each board- especially if they're both the same style of board. Then add some free-ride sails around 5.5, 6.6 and say a 7.4 and you're right for most conditions you'll ever want to sail in.

Modern design delivers high 'litre-age' that still ride like smaller boards, covering excellent range. You rarely see laden trailers anymore - most bring one or two boards in the back of the commo to the local and have it covered. I ride the same board over 95% of the time. That other 5%? Well, that's when conditions are nuclear, and while gear is important, you need to be very competent in rig and board control. Those conditions are rare so one board should keep you grinning on water and accruing experience in most occassions.

So, my 2cs: find something built in the past five years, of similar shape to what you're on now but twenty or so litres less. Even at that smaller leap, it'll feel twitchy initially, but that'll quickly pass and then you'll marvel at how responsive it is to foot pressure, remains controllable at 20+kts, and gets you home when becalmed.

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MarkSSC said..

My weight is around 78kgs and I am in my fifties. May not be as agile or bullet proof compared to my younger years. Holding on for grim life or splitting sails from a catapult re-entry is not my favoured option. Realistically, I now think that anything below 115L is possibly too slippery.

Hey Tomp,

Please note my weight and age is as stated. I only weigh myself twice a year, if lucky. not sure why you thought I was, am or is a female though????

Thanks everyone for taking the time to chat. the intent of my original post was to learn about what others have done and evaluate that for own circumstances. To this end the variety of responses has made interesting reading.

sorry I had missed/skipped your weight. no offence meant, only reading off your profile (...female in QLD)

yes I think Mark would like to know what people did, not what they/him should have done. I started with a carve 133 (freeride) , then isonic 101 (hard core slalom): For 1 year I could not sail it unless in strong wind with small sails, so I got a Goya 115 freeride. Gradually the 101 became easier and and now is the board I use most. The real volume is 96 lts, it just floats me, and with a bit of practice you can uphaul. For very light winds I also use a formula. In my experience when you change boards type and volume you need to go out at least 10 times before you settle down and feel comfortable. Experiment also with different sails and fins and moving the mast foot forward or backwards. As said before a smaller board is a bit more fiddly and hard work in gusty conditions, but a lot easier to manage in strong winds and chop. I started learning at 55 and am your same weight, if you practice regularly you will become stronger, fitter and younger.

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tomp said..
sorry I had missed/skipped your weight. no offence meant, only reading off your profile (...female in QLD)

No problems Tomp...I was just a bit surprised. Thanks for the heads up on my profile. Don't know how that happened but it is fixed now...all good

Sailing ten yrs, GPS style, nearly done 25000kms on gps, did have basic understanding as sailed/windsurfed as a kid, about a twenty yr break from taking it up again

I went, jp excite, too much initially
So I went jp fun ride, sweet, took me from non plaining, to plaining, straps, basic airs and turns about 6mths
went to supersport, sweet, took me from about 20kts to 30kts, board speed style plaining gypes, airs, about 1yr

then went to slalom boards, I've had about twenty different ones, different brands, about...forever

I recommend developing some good sailing skills, a variety of conditions, plaining, straps, tacks, and basic plaining gypes before going to a dedicated slalom boards,
the first couple of yrs into windsurfing is awesome, from first plaining, to airs to your first plaing gypes, its a great time, and really rewarding

theres no need to do this at real fast speed yet, slow it down, and develop some skills and experience in a variety of conditions

you can develop great free riding skills on a slower board, then eventually move towards slalom, more speed, flatter water

In my opinion, the negative of the GPS, is too many are just rushing onto flat banks, bearing off, and some are not developing very much skill

theres guys that can go 40 that cant tack or gype, I would recommend enjoying the development of all the skills that make a great sailor

If your aiming to be a great freerider, then slow it down, over the yrs, with the combination of your forged skills and experience, add the potential for more speed

Good luck Mark, I loved the first couple of yrs, at that stage it was just pure fun, with no performance aspirations, enjoy

starting out, you don't need heaps of boards, but as you get better, and try to perform better in avariety of conditions, then that's the need for more boards in an attempt to fine tune the conditions

I would think two basic sails, and one beginner freeride board would cover you from zero to thirty knots for a while, a couple of fins, that's a basic recreational approach
If it develops from past time to lifestyle, then you will get more gear on your way to the top, good luck

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powersloshin said..
yes I think Mark would like to know what people did, not what they/him should have done. I started with a carve 133 (freeride) , then isonic 101 (hard core slalom): For 1 year I could not sail it unless in strong wind with small sails, so I got a Goya 115 freeride. Gradually the 101 became easier and and now is the board I use most. The real volume is 96 lts, it just floats me, and with a bit of practice you can uphaul. For very light winds I also use a formula. In my experience when you change boards type and volume you need to go out at least 10 times before you settle down and feel comfortable. Experiment also with different sails and fins and moving the mast foot forward or backwards. As said before a smaller board is a bit more fiddly and hard work in gusty conditions, but a lot easier to manage in strong winds and chop. I started learning at 55 and am your same weight, if you practice regularly you will become stronger, fitter and younger.

I like the bit about stronger, fitter and younger. I also agree with the points you made about tuning. Advances and changes in board and sail design indicate that our gear is much more versatile than in the past. Sometimes it is not so much the size of the board and rig that is important compared to how the board feels and performs in the water. That's one theory we can test out. Another question to consider is a bit like the chicken and the egg...which came first? In this case, do you get the skills for a shorter board by having heaps of experience on the bigger board, or can you only get those short board skills by practising on a short board. Does it just boil down to what amount of time someone would want to spend falling in, catapulting and looking generally uncoordinated on the water? Again, there is probably no set formula for this but it is always interesting and useful to hear of other peoples experiences.

Mark, it seems obvious although the wind conditions have a big impact on quality sailing time and learning rate. Qld has fairly moderate wind averages
compared to say WA. Have you considered a trip to Maui or even WA?

I've only had 1 Maui trip & would compare 2 weeks sailing there to the equivalent of 6-12 months sailing in NSW or QLD. About 40-50 hours sailing.

Hi mark.

You will progress faster on a floaty board.

I'm 74kg.

I went small too quick. Mistake.

At your level you want about a 150l light wind board and a 120l free ride.

The only reason to go under 120l is for choppy ocean or bay sailing; or waves.

FYI. Matt Pritchard, who teaches in Maui, ONLY ever uses one sail. A 5.0m

Thanks Milsy for the pearls of wisdom. A key being the difference between recreational and serious windsurfing. I agree totally that control and skill with gibes, and tacks, are desirable above straight line speed...for me anyway. I have the basic kit you are suggesting. The option of a 120L may eventuate but they are nearly the same length as my 146L, and 10 cm narrower perhaps.

Your points are also well made Yuppy. Thanks.

Hey Tomp, did I read in your reply that you are sponsoring some trips to the pick spots in WA and Maui? I have a friend who went to Maui for a number of years, so that may be the closest I get to going. Likewise with WA...it is a nice place but some distance away. Where I live there are a number of places I can access, some with crystal clear warm water for part of the year. There are also a diverse and friendly bunch of people who sail up here.

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Yuppy said..

FYI. Matt Pritchard, who teaches in Maui, ONLY ever uses one sail. A 5.0m

I have also read that Guy Cribb only uses one ore two boards and about three sails...largest being 8.5. He does admit to using 100% carbon masts to maximise the wind range of his sails. They are in a different class to us mere mortals though!

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In this case, do you get the skills for a shorter board by having heaps of experience on the bigger board, or can you only get those short board skills by practising on a short board.

My experience, ha. Well lets go back, yeah way back.
Progressive board? Na never heard of that brand.
Started on me first long-board and rid it till death What! Thats all i could afford being 16 in school. Had the thing cranking man and was actively seeking out big air on her, cough cough(ten cate runner). Nothing like getting the big girl up there. Ha, had all the transitions blah blah down.
Finally got cash and went straight to a freewave back in the day thing about 10-20 litre above weight. The transition was easy, gybing it first day blah blah.
Good luck and for a bit of confidence, I think Robby Naish just turned 50

Patrik make floaty free-ride boards that are very,very narrow for their volume.

The 135 litre free-ride felt incredibly narrow but still floaty. Guessing it was around 70cm wide.

These boards could be ideal for someone progressing or a heavier sailor looking for the feel that a narrower board gives without compromising on stability.


http://www.windsurfingreligion.com/patrik-boards.html

Mark have a look at the free moves. I use to sail a fanatic Hawk which was 120 litres. It was a great board lively, fast and gybed nicely when powered up. The problem is with NSW gusty winds a lot of the time you feel that if you drop a gybe it may be a problem getting back in, our waiting in the water for a gust to come which I don't enjoy as I struggled to up haul it as of its width. I sail a variety of boards but my most use is an atomic 110. At 87kg I can up haul it, gybe it powered up or not and really enjoy sailing it. It is just a bit of a handful when it gets over 30 knots. The thin rails hold the edge in fast gybes. Great progression boards.Have a look at the free moves around that litre age or at least try and demo one. I got hooked on one when I rented one at the Zu in Melbourne and came home and purchased one.