So my 2019 Goya Bolt 135 has been great for foiling, but when coming off the foil in 1-3 foot waves and 15-20 knots I do plant a foot on the deck in front of the front foot strap to stabilize myself as the board hits the water. That had resulted in dents and creases (see pic. 12" to left of mast track numbers) along the ridge that circles the deck and slopes down to the mast track. There are some areas 1-2" in diameter that have flex due to the EPS core being compressed and the carbon deck not sticking to it. Was warned that over time flexing of those spots will cause cracks allowing water in followed by delamination. So I have ordered some dual density deck padding to cover the whole ridge area on each side of the mast track (9" wide x 24" long). Any thoughts on this approach? Figure dual density padding will spread the load and seal the area from water intrusion. I also put my foot there pre-foiling in light winds to level the board, and when I do the Easy beach start and uphaul the sail. Think the ridge design amplifies the impact pressures compared to a non-scooped flat deck. If I knew in advance, would have covered from the beginning. That area is also wearing out the soles of my booties because of the sanded finish. Thanks

Are you sure that hard dropping off foil is the cause? I ask because that's also where your harness hook would touch when clambering back on the board to uphaul... If that were the cause then high-density deck pad would probably work great. I'm thinking about installing something for that purpose on my own board.

If its soft or delaminated don't just put a pad over it. Its not just the stepping on it that will make it worse, its the board flexing in use that will cause that delam to spread. Imagine if you put it on a couple of saw horses and stand on it and bounce a bit - that delam area will quickly spread even though you're not standing on the damage - the board wants to bend in that midsection. I've tested this on ones I was about to repair - I've had a 4" - 6" delam more than double in size after 15mins hard planing in good chop.

It looks like a board still worth $1500 so do it right.

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Awalkspoiled said..
Are you sure that hard dropping off foil is the cause? I ask because that's also where your harness hook would touch when clambering back on the board to uphaul... If that were the cause then high-density deck pad would probably work great. I'm thinking about installing something for that purpose on my own board.

Super careful about harness hook, learned on another board, that is not from harness hook.

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Mark _australia said..
If its soft or delaminated don't just put a pad over it. Its not just the stepping on it that will make it worse, its the board flexing in use that will cause that delam to spread. Imagine if you put it on a couple of saw horses and stand on it and bounce a bit - that delam area will quickly spread even thought you're not standing on the damage - the board wants to bend in that midsection. I've tested this on ones I was about to repair - I've had a 4" - 6" delam more than double in 15mins hard planing in good chop.

It looks like a board still worth $1500 so do it right.

Thanks for the advice Mark, I have never dealt with delamination so going by what my local shop told me, they said if it was delaminated I could push the deck around like there was a bubble under it, the dented/creased area you can see in the pic. is solid with no flex, but in front of that area there is a 3" long by 1/2" area running right along the top of the ridge that I can flex with moderate thumb pressure, but can not push around. Think I basically flattened the ridge out (of the scooped deck) where I stand on it to up haul. No cracks so far, so should be water tight, but can hear a very slight sound as I press on it, carbon fiber flexing? Same problem on other side of board, again right where I stand to uphaul, but not as bad as the left side (no obvious creases/dents, just a flatted ridge).

I reckon use it being careful not to stand on that area, and if any spreading or increase in softness immediately repair it
There is not much material thickness in a freeride board....

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Mark _australia said..
I reckon use it being careful not to stand on that area, and if any spreading or increase in softness immediately repair it
There is not much material thickness in a freeride board....

Appreciate your advice, but that is the problem, I need to stand on that area. So hopping dual density eva deck padding will spread the weight/pressure from my feet over a larger area and prevent the deck from cracking, but if it does crack it will be sealed from exposure to water since the flexible area is 1/2" wide and 3" long and I am going to cover it with a 9" wide 24" long piece of deck padding.

was also thinking of putting a fairly stiff piece of 1/16" plastic between the deck padding and the ridge, to spread the load even more, but not sure if it will damage the deck more.

I'd say the cause is uphauling and the recessed mast track/higher rail. When standing on the board with the rig in the water because of the higher rail the mast is going to be resting on the deck at 1 point, which is where the dents look to be. Is your mastpad on the sail long enough to cover the mast at that point? The board is 80cm wide. The board is a light construction for freerace which is fair enough. When slalom/freerace boards came out with recessed decks it put me off them, as I had seen a few with dents there. Speaking to a slalom sailor, he said that in between heats he sometimes sits on the board with the rig in the water, rig sunk a bit. To help uphaul they sometimes stand on the rail to help lever the rig out of the water! The use larger sails than you (I guess you dont use 8.5m+) but I think it could still cause damage.
I would say boards which are uphauled a lot (beginner boards) dont have the recessed decks and dont think foil boards have recessed decks either. (Wow that lowered centre of gravity really does help control massively for the freeracer/freerider , not.)
I was going to buy a Bolt 125 when they came out, but stalled when I saw they had the recessed deck, earlier smaller Bolts hadn't. I nearly changed my mind but a decent older board came up secondhand.

If you can hear crunching when you press it, it is the carbon flexing, so needs fixing.

The other thing that hits the scooped deck ridge is the base of the mast when the sail is on the water, I was concerned about that before buying the board but thought the tendon joint would give enough elevation so the mast base did not hit the ridge, but just checked and sure enough the mast extension hits the ridge right where it is dented and also flexible.

Have noticed on windy days with 1'-2'+ waves that the mast base hits that area as the waves pass by when I am getting ready to get on the board.

So deck padding should help with that.

Can you add padding to the extension instead?

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PhilUK said..
Can you add padding to the extension instead?

The sails have padding that covers the extension, but on windy days with 1'-2'+ waves, the waves cause the padded mast base to bang on the ridge of the scooped deck as the board rises and falls with each wave, as I am preparing to get on the board or taking a break in the water. When the sail is in/on the water it does not rise/fall in sync with the board, so the out of sync sail/mast base and board collide with each passing wave.

The other thing hitting the deck ridge is the extension collar, just checked and if the collar is anywhere from 18 cm to 26 cm it will hit the deck in that area, one of the grooves in the picture matched up with the collar at 18 cm, that is where I set the extension for my 7.2 sail. So the padded mast base is not enough. Will have to be more careful about not letting the mast base hit the board in the waves too., but will try putting the collar at 16 cm for my 7.2 sail and see it it downhauls good. At 16 cm the collar does not hit the board.

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Sandman1221 said..
The other thing hitting the deck ridge is the extension collar, just checked and if the collar is anywhere from 18 cm to 26 cm it will hit the deck in that area, one of the grooves in the picture matched up with the collar at 18 cm, that is where I set the extension for my 7.2 sail. So the padded mast base is not enough. Will have to be more careful about not letting the mast base hit the board in the waves too., but will try putting the collar at 16 cm for my 7.2 sail and see it it downhauls good. At 16 cm the collar does not hit the board.

I have some small dents on my falcon caused by having a concave deck, the extension/mast have caused these

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choco said..

Sandman1221 said..
The other thing hitting the deck ridge is the extension collar, just checked and if the collar is anywhere from 18 cm to 26 cm it will hit the deck in that area, one of the grooves in the picture matched up with the collar at 18 cm, that is where I set the extension for my 7.2 sail. So the padded mast base is not enough. Will have to be more careful about not letting the mast base hit the board in the waves too., but will try putting the collar at 16 cm for my 7.2 sail and see it it downhauls good. At 16 cm the collar does not hit the board.

I have some small dents on my falcon caused by having a concave deck, the extension/mast have caused these

I can see concave decks being a big issue . If modern boards weren't fragile enough . And the companies making these boards rabbiting on about becoming more eco . What a load of crock. Don't get me started .
How about , making them last !

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Imax1 said..
I can see concave decks being a big issue . If modern boards weren't fragile enough . And the companies making these boards rabbiting on about becoming more eco . What a load of crock. Don't get me started .
How about , making them last !

Starboard call it their 'gravity control system' and even have it on their Carve - their intermediate freeride board.
To compensate for the lower mast foot you have to raise the boom and also rig the sail higher on the mast otherwise the foot catches on the footstraps when you rake the sail back when tacking. Seems some brands think the more 'features' on a board the better it is for marketing. Its bollox.

The concave deck / sunken mast track does have a few advantages. Lowers centre of effort of sail and raises the boom leverage.
There is also the argument that the concave deck increases the aerodynamic lift of the nose.
Then there is the big one which is reduced weight. ( every 10L of foam removed equals 150 gm) ( also why virtual volume is often used)

Foiling has also been a major change to to how boards have had to be constructed. For years slappers have been built and constructed to be just water started. Foiling has now exposed different areas of weakness. Nose from catapults and rails from up hauling. I'm sure layups will improve and sailors will learn how to to care for their boards better.

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DarrylG said..
The concave deck / sunken mast track does have a few advantages. Lowers centre of effort of sail and raises the boom leverage.
There is also the argument that the concave deck increases the aerodynamic lift of the nose.
Then there is the big one which is reduced weight. ( every 10L of foam removed equals 150 gm) ( also why virtual volume is often used)

Foiling has also been a major change to to how boards have had to be constructed. For years slappers have been built and constructed to be just water started. Foiling has now exposed different areas of weakness. Nose from catapults and rails from up hauling. I'm sure layups will improve and sailors will learn how to to care for their boards better.

I asked the online retailer "is the mast going to hit the ridge on the concave deck", they said NO. When I got the board I remember checking in my living room and thinking it was not a problem since I figured on the water the sail would be supported by the water and not let the mast hit the deck, but did not think about 1-2"+ waves rocking the board. Have seen the deck bang on the mast many times in the waves, but it looked okay for a while. If I am sitting on the board off-shore in waves, I can not stop the board from hitting the mast, have tried. Dual density padding is on the way, would have put on the board when new if I had known, but will cover up some of the nice deck graphics!, oh well.

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choco said..

Sandman1221 said..
The other thing hitting the deck ridge is the extension collar, just checked and if the collar is anywhere from 18 cm to 26 cm it will hit the deck in that area, one of the grooves in the picture matched up with the collar at 18 cm, that is where I set the extension for my 7.2 sail. So the padded mast base is not enough. Will have to be more careful about not letting the mast base hit the board in the waves too., but will try putting the collar at 16 cm for my 7.2 sail and see it it downhauls good. At 16 cm the collar does not hit the board.

I have some small dents on my falcon caused by having a concave deck, the extension/mast have caused these

Hey Choco, thanks for the info., seems like a common problem.

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Sandman1221 said..
I asked the online retailer "is the mast going to hit the ridge on the concave deck", they said NO.

Every board has the mast hit the edge of the deck / rail area somewhere. it simply has to.......
Sounds like your online retailer isn't real bright...?

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Mark _australia said..

Sandman1221 said..
I asked the online retailer "is the mast going to hit the ridge on the concave deck", they said NO.

Every board has the mast hit the edge of the deck / rail area somewhere. it simply has to.......
Sounds like your online retailer isn't real bright...?

Oh they are smart, sold me the board!, telling me the mast would dent the ridge may have stopped me from buying it. Of course they could have said to cover it with deck padding when I bought it 2 yrs ago, that is what they told me to do when I called them last week. My MagicRide 142 had a few minor dents on the deck from the mast, but that deck was convex so slopped downwards to the rails, so the mast could hit that deck but when it did it hit a flattish convex area that spread the load out, not like on the Goya Bolt where the mast hits just a small area on the top of the concave deck ridge.

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DarrylG said..
The concave deck / sunken mast track does have a few advantages. Lowers centre of effort of sail and raises the boom leverage.
There is also the argument that the concave deck increases the aerodynamic lift of the nose.
Then there is the big one which is reduced weight. ( every 10L of foam removed equals 150 gm) ( also why virtual volume is often used)

Foiling has also been a major change to to how boards have had to be constructed. For years slappers have been built and constructed to be just water started. Foiling has now exposed different areas of weakness. Nose from catapults and rails from up hauling. I'm sure layups will improve and sailors will learn how to to care for their boards better.

Really? EPS is light. Having a concave deck rather than a flat one uses more of the heavier stuff like the PVC sandwich, resin, fibreglass & carbon. I wonder what the actual weight difference would be between a normal and concave deck.
Adding a foilbox to every friggin board adds 350g to every board (according to Starboard), whether its used for foiling or not.

You mean dont use concave decked boards for foiling?

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PhilUK said..

DarrylG said..
The concave deck / sunken mast track does have a few advantages. Lowers centre of effort of sail and raises the boom leverage.
There is also the argument that the concave deck increases the aerodynamic lift of the nose.
Then there is the big one which is reduced weight. ( every 10L of foam removed equals 150 gm) ( also why virtual volume is often used)

Foiling has also been a major change to to how boards have had to be constructed. For years slappers have been built and constructed to be just water started. Foiling has now exposed different areas of weakness. Nose from catapults and rails from up hauling. I'm sure layups will improve and sailors will learn how to to care for their boards better.

Really? EPS is light. Having a concave deck rather than a flat one uses more of the heavier stuff like the PVC sandwich, resin, fibreglass & carbon. I wonder what the actual weight difference would be between a normal and concave deck.
Adding a foilbox to every friggin board adds 350g to every board (according to Starboard), whether its used for foiling or not.

You mean dont use concave decked boards for foiling?

The Goya Bolt 135 is remarkably light compared to my JP Magic Ride 142.

A round up of points to ponder on , are deck conclaves worth it ?
How much do you notice , if the mast join is an inch lower ?
How much performance gain , if the mast is an inch lower ?
What is the improved feeling with a lower pivot point and how much ?
If the feeling is real, why don't wave boards use it ?
How much lighter is the board ? ( I would think a ****teenth ).
How much more above damage ? ( a lot due to a small pinch area ).
Does it change the board flex , strength ? ( I would think so . Stiffer and stronger than a flat deck but not as strong as domed ? ).
Its sad that these nice boards won't last as long to be handed down . Or is this a sneaky design feature clouded in must have gimmick ?
They know it's a weak point , why don't they make that area stronger ?
How many boards really suffer this design , will all these boards have a short life ?
So....
Is it worth it enough to put up with the extra damage or more a gimmick ?

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Imax1 said..
A round up of points to ponder on , are deck conclaves worth it ?
How much do you notice , if the mast join is an inch lower ?
How much performance gain , if the mast is an inch lower ?
What is the improved feeling with a lower pivot point and how much ?
If the feeling is real, why don't wave boards use it ?
How much lighter is the board ? ( I would think a ****teenth ).
How much more above damage ? ( a lot due to a small pinch area ).
Does it change the board flex , strength ? ( I would think so . Stiffer and stronger than a flat deck but not as strong as domed ? ).
Its sad that these nice boards won't last as long to be handed down . Or is this a sneaky design feature clouded in must have gimmick ?
They know it's a weak point , why don't they make that area stronger ?
How many boards really suffer this design , will all these boards have a short life ?
So....
Is it worth it enough to put up with the extra damage or more a gimmick ?

Good points Imax1, was told by a guy at a local shop that all newer slalom boards have the concave deck, will see how well the dual density deck padding protects the deck from more damage, it is a great board otherwise, just wish I had been warned when I specifically asked the guy at Big Winds if the mast would hit the ridge. But then I knew it was a potential issue, guess I should have been more observant of the early dents, but got so caught up in learning foiling that I missed it. padding on the board when new would probably have prevented any damage. If the deck padding works, the board should be good for a long time to come and will look the same as a new board with added padding.

Dual density eva will hide the damage, not prevent it. The damage needs to be fixed or you'll have one soggy, wet & heavier Bolt.

The deck concave seemed a smart spot to place the vent screw as well, nothing like placing it in the bottom of a pool

Instead of the eva pad, would a shim under the mast foot be better or it's a dumb idea? You can get kitchen PVC cutting boards on various thicknesses

You need to check the length of the mast foot bolt to see how much it allows

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choco said..
The deck concave seemed a smart spot to place the vent screw as well, nothing like placing it in the bottom of a pool

agree

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t3wind said..
Instead of the eva pad, would a shim under the mast foot be better or it's a dumb idea? You can get kitchen PVC cutting boards on various thicknesses

You need to check the length of the mast foot bolt to see how much it allows

thinking of something like that, they did something similar with the iQ foil boards to keep the extension collar from denting the board, put a carbon spacer between mast and extension collar to move collar lower.

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PhilUK said..

Imax1 said..
I can see concave decks being a big issue . If modern boards weren't fragile enough . And the companies making these boards rabbiting on about becoming more eco . What a load of crock. Don't get me started .
How about , making them last !

Starboard call it their 'gravity control system' and even have it on their Carve - their intermediate freeride board.
To compensate for the lower mast foot you have to raise the boom and also rig the sail higher on the mast otherwise the foot catches on the footstraps when you rake the sail back when tacking. Seems some brands think the more 'features' on a board the better it is for marketing. Its bollox.

Recessed decks are good for me. I'm only 169cm and usually have to rig the boom right at the bottom of the cutout. With a recessed deck I can have it at a more normal height..