With my 7M Superfreak UL, skipping across the tops the the chop, fully planning for sure and committed to the harness the board starts to feel really weird, not sure exactly but it seems I'm slipping sideways down wind and need a bigger fin?
Also struggling with rig control, the board wants to head upwind and then of course luff up, I'm trying to rake the rig back and at the same time push hard on the front foot to direct the board downwind.
Am I asking too much from this SUP board with tail rocker?
Suggestions

I reckon you are expecting too much.
Wider the board, bigger the fin.
You'd need about a 40cm plus in it (?) if it were a windsurfer

I think also lack of straps meaning you can't drive it away really hard with your front foot?

Caveat: never sailed a SUP

You don't really need a big fin unless you're standing out on the rail in the straps. I could sail my old 12'6" with a 6.4 and plane upwind with a 9.25" fin. Is the board a thruster? Maybe try taking out the side fins a try a centre fin with more area if you have one. Also, why are you trying to rake the sail back? This is how you steer into the wind when not planing so could be half the problem.

Agree with Mark your probably expecting too much from the board. Ive sailed SUPS and they certainly are'nt performance boards

MY first windsurfing board was WINDSTAR with triangle sail.
Looks like SUP from early stone era.
Anyway that is possibly the best way to discourage anybody from windsurfing forever, but if you passed this stage you are probably committed.
What I only suggest - windsurfing is MUCH EASIER on right , modern equipment...

Wrong tool for the job.
A SUP is a Stand Up PADDLE board, not a light wind planing windsurfer.
No straps and high speeds, why would you bother?

Never sailed a SUP but willing to put in my 2 cents worth.
One reason for luffing up could be that your weight is still not fully into the harness. Try moving your back foot closer to the centre of the board and see if it straightens out. If it does, it means that it is your weight railing the board up and this will make it turn into the wind. Only solution I know of is to just put more weight into the harness.
Not sure about raking the sail back. This just happens naturally due to you moving more to the back of the board as the wind hits the sail. If anything the sail should be raked a little forward to force the nose off the wind.
Sorry about the other problem you mentioned about slipping sideways downwind. Not sure but if you haven't got the steering sorted, you won't be going fast enough for the fin to bight. Maybe the steering problem should be sorted first and see what happens.

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Beaglebuddy said...

With my 7M Superfreak UL, skipping across the tops the the chop, fully planning for sure and committed to the harness the board starts to feel really weird, not sure exactly but it seems I'm slipping sideways down wind and need a bigger fin?
Also struggling with rig control, the board wants to head upwind and then of course luff up, I'm trying to rake the rig back and at the same time push hard on the front foot to direct the board downwind.
Am I asking too much from this SUP board with tail rocker?
Suggestions

I think you might end up finding the problem you describe is because SUP's have really soft rails that offer no drive at all. It is easy to think a bigger fin will fix it. It actually makes it worse, and stiffens it up on smaller waves. I havn't tried the Quad setup yet though.

I've been using a 8'10 SB widepoint with a 5.0 this summer and after endless mucking around with setup I realised it was never going to behave anything like a propper waveboard so I adjusted my sailing style to suit it rather than trying to turn it into something it was never going to be.

I'm finding it bloody difficult to bury the big fat rails into the wave, sail or paddle. I'm working on that.

My board has footstrap plugs and I found footstaps better because they help in pumping it onto the plane, sometimes its handy being able to lift the front foot and its a lot easier to carry the setup to the water.

I've had a lot of fun with the widepoint. It can do a great many things in a lot of different conditions and the whole family can play with it. Its excellent value.

Its a matter if finding then exploiting its many good points, and working around its vulnerabilities.

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Zachery said...

Agree with Mark your probably expecting too much from the board. Ive sailed SUPS and they certainly are'nt performance boards

Oii Zac. I heard you is a team OES factory test rider these days.

How come ya stuffin around with SUP's

Along with the rest of us, anyway, anyhow, anymeans to get on the water (sailing that is)
what are you doing gayboarding?

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Gwendy said...

Beaglebuddy said...

With my 7M Superfreak UL, skipping across the tops the the chop, fully planning for sure and committed to the harness the board starts to feel really weird, not sure exactly but it seems I'm slipping sideways down wind and need a bigger fin?
Also struggling with rig control, the board wants to head upwind and then of course luff up, I'm trying to rake the rig back and at the same time push hard on the front foot to direct the board downwind.
Am I asking too much from this SUP board with tail rocker?
Suggestions

II've been using a 8'10 SB widepoint with a 5.0 this summer and after endless mucking around with setup I realised it was never going to behave anything like a propper waveboard so I adjusted my sailing style to suit it rather than trying to turn it into something it was never going to be.

I'm finding it bloody difficult to bury the big fat rails into the wave, sail or paddle. I'm working on that.

Is that partly because the shorter boards have to be so thick and they get harder to bury a rail?

Just wondering as I don't SUP but may have one someday

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Gwendy said...

Beaglebuddy said...

With my 7M Superfreak UL, skipping across the tops the the chop, fully planning for sure and committed to the harness the board starts to feel really weird, not sure exactly but it seems I'm slipping sideways down wind and need a bigger fin?
Also struggling with rig control, the board wants to head upwind and then of course luff up, I'm trying to rake the rig back and at the same time push hard on the front foot to direct the board downwind.
Am I asking too much from this SUP board with tail rocker?
Suggestions

II've been using a 8'10 SB widepoint with a 5.0 this summer and after endless mucking around with setup I realised it was never going to behave anything like a propper waveboard so I adjusted my sailing style to suit it rather than trying to turn it into something it was never going to be.

I'm finding it bloody difficult to bury the big fat rails into the wave, sail or paddle. I'm working on that.

Is that partly because the shorter boards have to be so thick and they get harder to bury a rail?

Just wondering as I don't SUP but may have one someday

Yes, the board is a thruster, center fin is around 9" or so.
I'm raking the rig back because that's how I have observed people sailing while up to speed and planing.
And I am discovering if the rig isn't raked back the wind wants to jerk the sail forward and catapult me.
When you are planing you steer primarily with foot pressure not tilting the mast forward and back, correct?

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Mark _australia said...

Gwendy said...

Beaglebuddy said...

With my 7M Superfreak UL, skipping across the tops the the chop, fully planning for sure and committed to the harness the board starts to feel really weird, not sure exactly but it seems I'm slipping sideways down wind and need a bigger fin?
Also struggling with rig control, the board wants to head upwind and then of course luff up, I'm trying to rake the rig back and at the same time push hard on the front foot to direct the board downwind.
Am I asking too much from this SUP board with tail rocker?
Suggestions

II've been using a 8'10 SB widepoint with a 5.0 this summer and after endless mucking around with setup I realised it was never going to behave anything like a propper waveboard so I adjusted my sailing style to suit it rather than trying to turn it into something it was never going to be.

I'm finding it bloody difficult to bury the big fat rails into the wave, sail or paddle. I'm working on that.

Is that partly because the shorter boards have to be so thick and they get harder to bury a rail?

Just wondering as I don't SUP but may have one someday

Yeah, definately. There's a lot of different sizes available these days. I went a bit on the wide floaty side as its my first SUP. Theres plenty of video online with guys really ripping on boards like mine so I put it down to running out of ability on my part.

You won't regret getting one in ya Quiver. good solid fun on windless days.

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Zachery said...

Along with the rest of us, anyway, anyhow, anymeans to get on the water (sailing that is)
what are you doing gayboarding?

Whats gayboarding? Is that like the torture waterboarding exept you use a ga....
STOP. horrible mental picture.

Seriously, I been out and had a chat with all my different kinds of boards and all claim to be exclusively hetrosexual. huge relief.

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Beaglebuddy said...

Yes, the board is a thruster, center fin is around 9" or so.
I'm raking the rig back because that's how I have observed people sailing while up to speed and planing.
And I am discovering if the rig isn't raked back the wind wants to jerk the sail forward and catapult me.
When you are planing you steer primarily with foot pressure not tilting the mast forward and back, correct?

I use a similar SUP, Fanatic Alllwave 9'6" for a light wind board.....Well under 10 knots that is. If i can water start i'd rather be on a proper windsurfer as they are way better on the wave then a SUP will ever be. I've not had my SUP plainning yet, I always switch to my windsurfer well before that stage. I've seen guys plainning on their SUPs and they seems to glyde along nicely but I can get my Quad plainning in the same wind. If you are a flatwater sailor and are just using it to cruise I think expecting it to plain like a proper windsurfer is asking too much of a SUP. I'm sure you could get a windsurfer going with a 7m sail without a problem and you'll have a better time.

They have their place, Light winds and small surf is heaps of fun on a SUP with a small sail and when there is no wind you get to paddle as well. The foot strap option on a SUP may help with turns on the wave, My board does not have this option which means I have to dance all over the board to get it to turn. I also use mine on flatwater just to cruise or let the family or freinds have a go at windsurfing, anyone can sail a SUP within a few minutes and have a lot of fun.

I don't know what sort of sail the Superfreak is but unless it's a race sail or your doing a dead downwind run it's not required to rake the rig back. Modern sails are designed to run in a more upright position to deliver their power and drive, When you rake the rig back you are killing the power which is why you find it more confortable to sail like this. As your SUP does not have straps you are sinking back in the harness to control the power and prevent catapults, this rakes the rig back which will make the board turn into the wind. If you could sail more upright you would see the board behave a bit more like you want it to but without straps and in those conditions you will be on the edge of catapult at all times.

I think you're just asking too much of a SUP to perform like a proper performance windsurfer, Take a step back and use it within it's limits and you'll enjoy it a whole lot more. If it's plainning conditions get your windsurfer out and windsurf, If you don't have a performance board yet....It's time to get one.

My 2 cents, Enjoy your time on the water

I know where you are coming from Beaglebuddy. My take is that not all WindSUP's are created equal - there are some that plane early and have good speed but not many. My recent experience is on a Kona 11.5 TT and I really only got it dialled in the other day. I was using a SuperFreak 7.0 UL rigged in "ultrasoft" model (see ULUS on the Superfreak forum) on the Kona in 7-12 k in ****ty knee high waves. But it was fun - the sail pulled like a tractor in and out of transitions and the board had the glide to keep moving when gybing onto the waves and swell or riding clew first down the line. But you could shut the power off by luffing or over-sheeting. In 12 k, I was planing at good speed in the straps (I dunno, no GPS but easily over 20 knots board speed).

I reckon a longboard for light wind wave sailing has to have the length to transition to a plane cleanly - it should be planing on the wave and have thin enough rails to crank into the turns. I can't see how a short tug-boat SUP with tail rocker and corky rails can do that as well.

Anyway, I reckon your board may not be a planner - but that small fin won't be helping. Have you rigged the Superfreak like Jeff Henderson's video? Might have too much drag and loading the fin up. Took me 6 months to learn to rig mine properly and I don't think I'm finished learning yet. I am a slow leaner and think I know better. Turns out I don't :-) Having footstraps helps balance in a planing stance, but I don't use them much on a wave - feet are moving around all over the place.

Good luck getting your board dialled in, and remember the long boarders motto - Having fun is half the fun!

The SUP is an 11' X 31" NSP, I had a mast track installed. For a surfboard it has a relatively flat rocker but like all surfboards there is some tail rocker.
Using it as a SUP I have no problems turning it because I'm 100KG and very tall, for an average sized person it's a beginner board but for me it's just perfect.
I like to sail it because the wind here is very marginal, gusty with holes.
I haven't learned to waterstart because there really hasn't been enough wind, when I'm sailing if there is anyone else out they can usually waterstart but they are always smaller than me so until I get more proficient and can feel comfortable with even bigger sails to waterstart I need a board I can uphaul.
I have Starboard GO 155L but unless I'm fully powered up and planning this board is no fun to slog on and it's not as fun to ride swell and small waves on.
Where I sail I can wave ride the blast back out around the break.
I don't understand everyone's comments about not raking back the mast, I see everyone sailing that way, go to the picture section on this website and everyone powered up is raking the mast back, "closing the gap".
If I don't rake back I risk a catapult or having the boom jerked from my hands and smashing the nose of the board. Settling into the harness it gets a twitchy pulling forward feel until I rake back a bit.
Dr. Duck I'm rigging to spec not ULUS but I plan to try it.

Isolating the problem now, it seems when powered up I need to start raking the mast back, and to do that I need to start moving towards the back of the board, and when I do that the tail rocker caused the very long nose to rear up and that's when the problems start.

Like the guys say, wrong tool.

It's OK in light winds, I use a SB 12-6 up to 15 knots. Use it to cruise around or freestyle for exercise. Fins don't make a big diff in my experience.

But for planing?? 15-20 knots and no harness with a 6.5 is real good workout, and it's almost fun. But not planing.