Hi everyone,

I am at an intermediate level and currently use a 145L freeride board with two sails 5.9m2 and 7.0m2.
I weigh about 90Kg and can usually start planing with the 7.0m2 sail and about 17-20knts wind.

My question is , should I invest in a bigger sail (7.8 to 8.2 m2) in order to plane with lighter winds (10-15knts) or could that be done by improving my technique ?

Thanks

I'm similar weight to you and with my 145 blast I use 8.0 or 9.5 on light wind days. I'd get the largest sail you can get that fits your existing boom if you want to plane in 15kts without foiling. Today I still had to pump a little in 15 with my 8.0.

Don't know what the wind is like where you are but I have sails ranging from 7.0 to 9.5 and the 8.5 gets used about 85% of the time. Even with 9.5 on a JP SLW or falcon LW I still need about 14kt to get planing. I think anything under that is the domain of the foil.

86 kg, Magic Ride 142, 54 cm True Ames Sweeper fin, and a 9.0 Aerotech Freespeed sail got me up in ~13 knots without pumping, maybe a little lighter wind on very flat water, little more wind with chop. But going from an 8.0 to a 9.0 was a big step in terms of weight and strength needed to control the sail, really helps if you are comfortable hooked in all the time, and doing 3x15 sets of pushups every other day, makes uphauling reasonable with the 9.0.

Now I only foil, was just out today 10-11.0 knot max gusts with a 7.2 Freespeed sail and AFS W95 foil and F1080 cm2 wing. I stood there remembering how frustrating it was to watch similar wind in the past when I only windsurfed! And with my 8.0 Freespeed 8-9 knots is fun and pretty fast too.

Thank you for your answers, it seems clear it's worth getting a bigger sails.

However, Sandaman1221 mentioned they use a 54cm fin and I wonder if the one I have been using (39cm) in all wind conditions might have been too small??
Any advice, based on your experience on best fin size to match with the sails/board ?

8.5-8.7 if your 145 is a bit wide. Depends on your spot. I had 9.2 and formula for light steady winds and I was 75kg at the time.

a 8.5 EZZY cheetah no cam or Lion 2 cam ,would be a great add to your quiver ,I use mine on my 140 Patrik 80 wide or 77 wide Starboard Isonic ,with a 44 or 46 fin ,you will need a 490 mast as well ,if you get a 8,0 you may get a way using a 460 mast .I don't foil ,so like mob dog I use my big sails most days ,I have worn a cheetah 8.5 metre sail out ,and that takes some doing ,you will increase your time up on the fin getting a bigger sail ,when you start getting over powered on a 8,5 its time to go straight to the 7,0

Fin size is related to board and board tail width. 39 does seem small at first view for 8.5+ !

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Manuel7 said..
Fin size is related to board and board tail width. 39 does seem small at first view for 8.5+ !

I don't know if it's the ideal size or close to it but the smallest I've gone on the 145/77 wide blast is 43cm with 9.5. I could still get on plane and slog upwind but the 47 true ames weed ii had more appropriate power.

I ended up getting a 44cm maui ultra fins weed slalom (glass not carbon) and it seems appropriate for an 8.0. Was railing it pretty hard yesterday. Weed fins are almost necessary in the bays here.

44 was the stock fin on that. I wonder if the tail width in his board is a bit narrow if the fin is 39? 54 seems like it would be huge and would light up early but jibing and getting a little overpowered...

A lot depends on which 145 you have. For an intermediate sailor a 77cm wide board like Aeron's Blast is going to feel really awkward with anything bigger than 8.2 or so. If it's wider than 81cm (the Goya Volar is 82.7) an 8.5 or even a little bigger is perfectly reasonable and would be a proper step up from 7.0. Again, the fin depends a lot on the board and to determine that it's good to know how wide the board is one foot from the tail. That will be a good basic number for the maximum length of the fin. On my very wide slalom board I love running a 62cm Kashy with an 8.6, but that's a very versatile fin and I'm heavier than you are. Most guys would be better served by something 48-54. A 38 pointer or swept pointer is definitely too small for versatility with any sail that size.

Don't get impatient, though - with a good 8.5 you'll fly in 14-15 but 10kt wind is unrealistic to plane for anyone who is neither a lightweight nor a really skilled pumper. You might manage it on a true formula board with an 11m sail but that's highly specialized gear.

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sarwind said..
Thank you for your answers, it seems clear it's worth getting a bigger sails.

However, Sandaman1221 mentioned they use a 54cm fin and I wonder if the one I have been using (39cm) in all wind conditions might have been too small??
Any advice, based on your experience on best fin size to match with the sails/board ?

FYI, used the 54 cm fin in all wind conditions on the Magic Ride 142, 13-22 knots. Now on the high wind end I did have the board come off the water with part of fin still in, I was flying!

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sarwind said..
Hi everyone,

I am at an intermediate level and currently use a 145L freeride board with two sails 5.9m2 and 7.0m2.
I weigh about 90Kg and can usually start planing with the 7.0m2 sail and about 17-20knts wind.

My question is , should I invest in a bigger sail (7.8 to 8.2 m2) in order to plane with lighter winds (10-15knts) or could that be done by improving my technique ?

Thanks

Hi sarwind,
your sails are definitely too small for a 145L Board. The 7.0 is about the lower end of the sail range for a 145L board. The sweet spot is probably around 8 and the upper meaningful limit around 9m2.
With the 7.0 you start planing from 17-18kn on as you say. With an 8.2 you can probably get planing at around 14kn, and with a 9.0 probably at 12-13kn.
what is further essential to get planing:
- buy a right sized fin. For an 8.2 Id buy a 47cm fin, and for a 9m sail even a 51-52cm fin. Depends also on your board/board width.
- learn pumping. A good pumping technique is really essential for light winds. And use the chop/waves to your advantage.

bigger fins really help you to get planing much earlier, and especially when pumping, the fin creates the resistance, drive and lift which you need to get going.
Be aware that if you buy a big sail, you probably also need a new boom. Aluminium booms you shouldn't extend to the max, but let at least 10cm. So if a 8.2 sail requires a boom size of 210, you should have at least a 220 boom. Or get a carbon boom - these you can extend fully. Of course you need also a new mast, normally a 490. And since that is all big gear, it tends to be heavy. So you should buy rather light and good high-carbon gear. In other words, big rigs to lower your wind range are expensive.

best
mariachi76

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mariachi76 said..

sarwind said..
Hi everyone,

I am at an intermediate level and currently use a 145L freeride board with two sails 5.9m2 and 7.0m2.
I weigh about 90Kg and can usually start planing with the 7.0m2 sail and about 17-20knts wind.

My question is , should I invest in a bigger sail (7.8 to 8.2 m2) in order to plane with lighter winds (10-15knts) or could that be done by improving my technique ?

Thanks

Hi sarwind,
your sails are definitely too small for a 145L Board. The 7.0 is about the lower end of the sail range for a 145L board. The sweet spot is probably around 8 and the upper meaningful limit around 9m2.
With the 7.0 you start planing from 17-18kn on as you say. With an 8.2 you can probably get planing at around 14kn, and with a 9.0 probably at 12-13kn.
what is further essential to get planing:
- buy a right sized fin. For an 8.2 Id buy a 47cm fin, and for a 9m sail even a 51-52cm fin. Depends also on your board/board width.
- learn pumping. A good pumping technique is really essential for light winds. And use the chop/waves to your advantage.

bigger fins really help you to get planing much earlier, and especially when pumping, the fin creates the resistance, drive and lift which you need to get going.
Be aware that if you buy a big sail, you probably also need a new boom. Aluminium booms you shouldn't extend to the max, but let at least 10cm. So if a 8.2 sail requires a boom size of 210, you should have at least a 220 boom. Or get a carbon boom - these you can extend fully. Of course you need also a new mast, normally a 490. And since that is all big gear, it tends to be heavy. So you should buy rather light and good high-carbon gear. In other words, big rigs to lower your wind range are expensive.

best
mariachi76

And if you live somewhere with light winds worth every cent. It'll get you out sailing and planing so much more

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snorkel962 said..

And if you live somewhere with light winds worth every cent. It'll get you out sailing and planing so much more

Absolutely true. I lived in a lightwind-area for many years with 9-12kn, rarely up to 15. I bought a JP Super Lightwind 165L, a 57cm fin, a Severne Turbo 9.2 sail with the 100% mast and a 190-240 carbon boom. And I had just really a great time with it. Before that, I had a JP Magic Ride 130L and a Gator 8.0 sail as my lightwind gear, and the SLW+9.2 at least doubled my time on water. With some pumping I started planing at 9kn (+a little gust) on an almost mirror-like water surface.

So for me it was worth every penny, although nowadays you probably pay 5kU$ for that gear. A year ago I moved into a strong wind part of the world, but in autumn and winter are days with 10kn where I still happily use my SLW and 9.2.

Anyway, sarwind should for sure buy something like an 8.2 - 8.5 sail to get going in 13-14kn.

btw. see my 360 video here with that gear:

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mariachi76 said..

snorkel962 said..

And if you live somewhere with light winds worth every cent. It'll get you out sailing and planing so much more

Absolutely true. I lived in a lightwind-area for many years with 9-12kn, rarely up to 15. I bought a JP Super Lightwind 165L, a 57cm fin, a Severne Turbo 9.2 sail with the 100% mast and a 190-240 carbon boom. And I had just really a great time with it. Before that, I had a JP Magic Ride 130L and a Gator 8.0 sail as my lightwind gear, and the SLW+9.2 at least doubled my time on water. With some pumping I started planing at 9kn (+a little gust) on an almost mirror-like water surface.

So for me it was worth every penny, although nowadays you probably pay 5kU$ for that gear. A year ago I moved into a strong wind part of the world, but in autumn and winter are days with 10kn where I still happily use my SLW and 9.2.

Anyway, sarwind should for sure buy something like an 8.2 - 8.5 sail to get going in 13-14kn.

btw. see my 360 video here with that gear:

That looks like fun. How come you launch from a pontoon?

You will definitely get planing earlier with better technique. But you will also get planing earlier with a larger sail. Your board will take a larger sail, no problem, especially if it is wider than 80cm.
I'm 80kg and use a 125l/80cm wide board, it has a wide tail at ofo 57.3cm. Its an old board, 2004, but has width at the rear, minimal tail kick, a short planing flat to make it sail off the fin in a lively manner. Previously, 2005, I used a Tushingham 2 cam sail, but these days use a 8.5m Ezzy Lion, with the matching Ezzy mast. The correct mast is a very good idea as at this low wind speed you want everything working together 100%.
I use a 46cm fin, about 60% carbon Drake DW slalom. Buy a carbon slalom fin.
Since 2020, the Ezzy Lion is a lot lighter than previous years. A local here has a no cam 9.5m Ezzy Cheetah as his largest, he is around 100kg at a guess, and can hang on to his sail when I am using 1-1.5m smaller.
Some people have a phobia about large sails & cams, but the Lions are easy to use. Once you are used to an 8.5m, 7m feels tiny.
This is with an older 2016 Lion, wind was light, some of the speeds into the gybe were low, but with a bit of technique, weight/rig forward, quick rig flip, feet in the correct place, I can just about keep planing.



Even lighter winds, no planing gybes, but still worth going out.

Go an 8.5 and a 55cm fin .

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sboardcrazy said..

mariachi76 said..

snorkel962 said..

And if you live somewhere with light winds worth every cent. It'll get you out sailing and planing so much more

Absolutely true. I lived in a lightwind-area for many years with 9-12kn, rarely up to 15. I bought a JP Super Lightwind 165L, a 57cm fin, a Severne Turbo 9.2 sail with the 100% mast and a 190-240 carbon boom. And I had just really a great time with it. Before that, I had a JP Magic Ride 130L and a Gator 8.0 sail as my lightwind gear, and the SLW+9.2 at least doubled my time on water. With some pumping I started planing at 9kn (+a little gust) on an almost mirror-like water surface.

So for me it was worth every penny, although nowadays you probably pay 5kU$ for that gear. A year ago I moved into a strong wind part of the world, but in autumn and winter are days with 10kn where I still happily use my SLW and 9.2.

Anyway, sarwind should for sure buy something like an 8.2 - 8.5 sail to get going in 13-14kn.

btw. see my 360 video here with that gear:

That looks like fun. How come you launch from a pontoon?

Hi sboardcrazy,
well that was in Shanghai at a lagoon, where the only real launching place is from that pontoon attached to the shore. Everything else around there is rocks. So thats just where all the windsurf guys of that local club launch from. In the video, use your mouse to turn around (it's 360!), then you can see the launch spot pretty well in the first minute of the video.
cheers
mariachi76

Very impressive gybing video Phil.

Interesting he moves his front hand on the boom towards the clamp end just before the insanely good sail rotation.

His front hand is almost touching the front end.

I will attempt to try this technique.

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PhilUK said..
You will definitely get planing earlier with better technique. But you will also get planing earlier with a larger sail. Your board will take a larger sail, no problem, especially if it is wider than 80cm.
I'm 80kg and use a 125l/80cm wide board, it has a wide tail at ofo 57.3cm. Its an old board, 2004, but has width at the rear, minimal tail kick, a short planing flat to make it sail off the fin in a lively manner. Previously, 2005, I used a Tushingham 2 cam sail, but these days use a 8.5m Ezzy Lion, with the matching Ezzy mast. The correct mast is a very good idea as at this low wind speed you want everything working together 100%.
I use a 46cm fin, about 60% carbon Drake DW slalom. Buy a carbon slalom fin.
Since 2020, the Ezzy Lion is a lot lighter than previous years. A local here has a no cam 9.5m Ezzy Cheetah as his largest, he is around 100kg at a guess, and can hang on to his sail when I am using 1-1.5m smaller.
Some people have a phobia about large sails & cams, but the Lions are easy to use. Once you are used to an 8.5m, 7m feels tiny.
This is with an older 2016 Lion, wind was light, some of the speeds into the gybe were low, but with a bit of technique, weight/rig forward, quick rig flip, feet in the correct place, I can just about keep planing.

Even lighter winds, no planing gybes, but still worth going out.

Nice gybes and sailing..It looks like a good place to sail.

Defo look into a larger fin for the large sails. Go carbon if you can. I really like the Tribal carbons. CLSL2 44&46 on my 84 wide.

I was using a 50 Z fin on my 135 litre Patrik for a few years before i sold my big gear due to the lack of enjoyment i had using it. Wasted so many days i could and should have been on much smaller stuff.

I have gone down the other path and now use much smaller sails.

Rig them with very little downhaul and max negative outhaul and you can get them planing in surprisingly light wind.

Benefits are they feel much more throw about. Gybing is so much easier especially for the less skilled.

Lighter and usually faster when you get them going with far, far superior feel.

Super light components are a must.

Would rather slog on small gear now than be planing on oversize sails and a tabletop board. but each to their own.

Rarely see older guys holding up big sails as it gets too physical.

I think that there is a merit to both approaches. With large sails and boards one can really go places, while on a smaller board and sail one will just go back and forth in the same place (in marginal winds).

Weight and tuning are equally important for both I think, there are large lightweight sails (e.g. Severne Overdrive) and an adjustable outhaul is also a must in order to take full advantage of the sails.

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BSN101 said..
Defo look into a larger fin for the large sails. Go carbon if you can. I really like the Tribal carbons. CLSL2 44&46 on my 84 wide.

reuse old ****ty rsx fins (think there full carbon) plus they are deep tuttle .?

I would price out the cost of a foil over a larger rig.