I have been windsurfing for years on a 220 l 12 ft Bic Windsup. I learned how to tack and gybe and I considered myself good enough for a more advanced board. This is why I bought a brand new Tahe Techno 160 l windfoil board. I am thoroughly disappointed. The board might be excellent for its intended purpose, of planing or foiling, but the volume distribution is designed in such a way that I simply cannot stand on it. Too tippy. A real nuisance.
I plan to sell it and buy a beginner board. I have put my eyes on a Tahe Beach 185 L. and a 2nd hand Fanatic Viper 80. THe Viper may be cheaper, but I don't mind paying more for a Beach if it has a better stability.
I'd like to know which one is better for stability . I weigh 90 kg. I don't care about planing, as most of the time the winds are light ( 12-15 knts) .I'll subplane most of the time.
Should I go for the Viper or the Beach?

Thanks

Francone

the two boards have similar dimensions and should be much the same for stability.
my daughter has the viper and it is a great board , it is shorter than the old wally she started on and does not have the same glide and pointing that the old board has ; it is a bit slower for cruising in light winds.
the Beach appears to be a polyethylene board ? personally i would prefer the fanatic's epoxy type construction.

is there a LT that you can have a go on ? may be quite similar to the 220l board you already have but good for sub-plane conditions.

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Francone said..
I have been windsurfing for years on a 220 l 12 ft Bic Windsup. I learned how to tack and gybe and I considered myself good enough for a more advanced board. This is why I bought a brand new Tahe Techno 160 l windfoil board. I am thoroughly disappointed. The board might be excellent for its intended purpose, of planing or foiling, but the volume distribution is designed in such a way that I simply cannot stand on it. Too tippy. A real nuisance.
I plan to sell it and buy a beginner board. I have put my eyes on a Tahe Beach 185 L. and a 2nd hand Fanatic Viper 80. THe Viper may be cheaper, but I don't mind paying more for a Beach if it has a better stability.
I'd like to know which one is better for stability . I weigh 90 kg. I don't care about planing, as most of the time the winds are light ( 12-15 knts) .I'll subplane most of the time.
Should I go for the Viper or the Beach?

Thanks

Francone

I think you should give the board a chance. Try and find a nice calm day without any chop and you'll naturally find a better stance to uphaul. Once you start moving pretty much any board is stable enough. I had the same feeling when I got my most recent board but once it clicks it feels just as natural as anything else.

You haven't provided much info on your current technique so I don't know if you're already doing these, but try these tips:
*Keep weight along midline of the board. The back foot should stay right along the centre until you start to power up.
*Uphaul with your legs and not your back. This gives you more control and makes it easier to fine tune with your arms.
*Rig up a smaller sail. Once you find the right position you can then use a heavier rig, but at the moment it will just make it unstable.
*Drag the rig towards the tail of the board when uphauling. This gives a bit more stability as it stops the nose from sinking.
*Bend your knees. Straight legs will induce wobbles and make you fall in.
*Look up. If you stare at the water you will fall in the water. Look where you want to go and you will go in that direction.

The board will probably have a tendency to go upwind as you uphaul so be ready to foot-steer it back downwind once you get going.

It can be discouraging when you just want to go out and sail but if you keep with it you will learn. Once you get the hang of it you will definitely appreciate the foiling capabilities as it sounds like your conditions are perfect for it.

Mid 90s race board. In your local conditions it will outperform anything else for a person who doesn't want to foil.

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Grantmac said..
Mid 90s race board. In your local conditions it will outperform anything else for a person who doesn't want to foil.

If he finds the Techno 160 to tippy, there's no way he'll be happy on an old race board. The Techno 160 is 82 cm wide, race boards are closer to 70 cm. Even with the dagger board down, the race boards are a lot tippier.

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SaltySkiffies said..
I think you should give the board a chance.

+1. If you go down in board size significantly, you have to learn a few new skills, which will take a few sessions. A 160 l board is still plenty big for 90 kg.

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Francone said..
Should I go for the Viper or the Beach?

Neither. Both boards have about the same width as the current board, but are 2-3 feet shorter. In subplaning conditions, that just means lower board speed, and a bit less front-to-back stability. For planing, neither of these has a clear advantage over the 160.

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boardsurfr said..

Grantmac said..
Mid 90s race board. In your local conditions it will outperform anything else for a person who doesn't want to foil.

If he finds the Techno 160 to tippy, there's no way he'll be happy on an old race board. The Techno 160 is 82 cm wide, race boards are closer to 70 cm. Even with the dagger board down, the race boards are a lot tippier.

SaltySkiffies said..
I think you should give the board a chance.

+1. If you go down in board size significantly, you have to learn a few new skills, which will take a few sessions. A 160 l board is still plenty big for 90 kg.

Francone said..
Should I go for the Viper or the Beach?

Neither. Both boards have about the same width as the current board, but are 2-3 feet shorter. In subplaning conditions, that just means lower board speed, and a bit less front-to-back stability. For planing, neither of these has a clear advantage over the 160.

The Viper ( 9.3 ft ) and the Tahe Beach 185 ( 9.7 ft) are not 2-3 ft shorter than my current Techno Wind foilt 160 but about 1 ft longer: : my current Techno Wind foil 160 is 8.4 ft long..
Given the prevaling light wind conditions in this area, a planing board like mine restricts considerably my T.O.W. and its short length affects its tracking abilty in sub-paning and upwind., in addition to its tippiness.. I am quite willing to trade planing for more stability, less speed and easy cruising around.

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SaltySkiffies said..

Francone said..
I have been windsurfing for years on a 220 l 12 ft Bic Windsup. I learned how to tack and gybe and I considered myself good enough for a more advanced board. This is why I bought a brand new Tahe Techno 160 l windfoil board. I am thoroughly disappointed. The board might be excellent for its intended purpose, of planing or foiling, but the volume distribution is designed in such a way that I simply cannot stand on it. Too tippy. A real nuisance.
I plan to sell it and buy a beginner board. I have put my eyes on a Tahe Beach 185 L. and a 2nd hand Fanatic Viper 80. THe Viper may be cheaper, but I don't mind paying more for a Beach if it has a better stability.
I'd like to know which one is better for stability . I weigh 90 kg. I don't care about planing, as most of the time the winds are light ( 12-15 knts) .I'll subplane most of the time.
Should I go for the Viper or the Beach?

Thanks

Francone

I think you should give the board a chance. Try and find a nice calm day without any chop and you'll naturally find a better stance to uphaul. Once you start moving pretty much any board is stable enough. I had the same feeling when I got my most recent board but once it clicks it feels just as natural as anything else.

You haven't provided much info on your current technique so I don't know if you're already doing these, but try these tips:
*Keep weight along midline of the board. The back foot should stay right along the centre until you start to power up.
*Uphaul with your legs and not your back. This gives you more control and makes it easier to fine tune with your arms.
*Rig up a smaller sail. Once you find the right position you can then use a heavier rig, but at the moment it will just make it unstable.
*Drag the rig towards the tail of the board when uphauling. This gives a bit more stability as it stops the nose from sinking.
*Bend your knees. Straight legs will induce wobbles and make you fall in.
*Look up. If you stare at the water you will fall in the water. Look where you want to go and you will go in that direction.

The board will probably have a tendency to go upwind as you uphaul so be ready to foot-steer it back downwind once you get going.

It can be discouraging when you just want to go out and sail but if you keep with it you will learn. Once you get the hang of it you will definitely appreciate the foiling capabilities as it sounds like your conditions are perfect for it.

THanks for your tips. Basically I always try to follow them and if there is no chop I can manage to ride the board without falling, but , chop or no chop, when I have to tack or gybe, ( especially the latter) then I fall off al the time, even though I could do it easiliy on the previous 11 ft Bic Windsup. The board is so sensitive that even if I am only a few cm off the centerline, the board keeps bouncing me off.
The worst and more frustrating condition is when I have to uphaul with a chop, especially near the shore where the incoming wavelet bumps on the return wave from the shore and the board is frantically shaken laterally in opposite directions. I could keep at it until I learn, but the season is short and I don't want spend all my time swimming around the board.

Thanks

Francone

Any chance you can get to some professional lessons? I'd keep both boards you already have and spend money on a lesson. That will help you more than a board right now. Oooor finding out where some other windsurfers are and being around them. I really struggled until I windsurfed with others and didn't know how much I could improve until after lessons.

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aeroegnr said..
Any chance you can get to some professional lessons? I'd keep both boards you already have and spend money on a lesson. That will help you more than a board right now. Oooor finding out where some other windsurfers are and being around them. I really struggled until I windsurfed with others and didn't know how much I could improve until after lessons.

100% agree. Advice from old blokes on the shore is what taught me how to windsurf

Stick with the windSUP or get lessons and buy a raceboard.
There is no free lunch: wider is slower with less glide.

If you like the Sup, have you thought about replacing it with an LT?

Sounds like he got rid of the 12 ft Windsup and switched to a 160 l board primarily aimed at planing, even though he's out usually in non-planing conditions. Poor choice. Someone who can't tack or jibe a 160 l board, and does not "want spend all my time swimming", should stick to a wide and long board. An 80 cm Viper is not really a more "advanced" board - it's just shorter than a 12 foot windsup, and therefore has less glide, and is requires more attention to foot placement when tacking,

Look into an LT. It's so much more than a beginner cruiser racing board. Hit up the Perth LT sailors or come to busso & try mine. 3-30 knots. You can put any sail on it too. Original or your fave 7.2 twin cam , four cam wave sail, what ever

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Grantmac said..
Stick with the windSUP or get lessons and buy a raceboard.
There is no free lunch: wider is slower with less glide.

Thanks for your comment
Unfortunately, I already sold the Windsup, because, after learning the ropes on it, I thought I was ready for a more agile, manoeuverable, and shorter board than a 350 cm long Windsup.
After my disastrous experience with the Bic Techno 160 l windfoil, I still believe that any beginner board, while slower than a planing shortboard, would be ideal for me , more agile and possibly faster than my 350 cm long Bic Windsup,
Anyway, the deal for the Viper didn't go through ,
Now my choice would be between a Tahe 185D and its twin, the 225 l. model.
Nominally, given my 90 kg weight, the 225 l. would be better, but it is also much wider than its sister ( 92 cm vs 79 cm). While excellent for lateral stability, I am also concerned that its width may cause too much drag , making it slow ( or much slower than the narrowser 185D) in moving through the water, especially in light winds, even more so that the largest sail I have is a RRD 7m2 sail.
I'd like to know if I should expect a substantial difference in this respect ( slow, drag..) between the Tahe 185D and the 225.l..
In terms of glide and tracking they should be about the same, because the length is practically the same ( 293 cm vs 297 cm)

Thanks for the input

Francone

Both will be VERY low performance.
Get a raceboard or LT.