Due to health reasons it is essential i try to avoid catapults. Rarely have them but looking for zero catapults if i can. I have reduced fin and sail size compared to what i usually use. I was wondering how seat harnesses compare to waist harness. Are they more likely to help avoid a catapult? I need to protect the chest area so i was considering a seat harness and impact vest. Any thoughts appreciated.

Golf

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Sparky said..
Golf

Have considered that but, you know!

After damaging some ribs and not being able to laugh or cough for two months, I've since then learned to hook my feet in before hooking the harness. It's a great setup for a catapault just having the harness hooked up.

As to seat vs waist, I've found the difference between the two is you're more likely to rehook the lines halfway through a gybe with a waist harness than a seat harness (owing to the hook being closer to the lines). Other than that there's no difference as to one being more prone to catapaults. Others have probably got other experiences to share...

my 2 cents

impact vest definitely a good idea.

try turning your harness hook up side down it will take a while to learn how to hook in but will stop the catapult, mate of mine has always sailed with it upside down not sure if he still does

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grich62 said..
try turning your harness hook up side down it will take a while to learn how to hook in but will stop the catapult, mate of mine has always sailed with it upside down not sure if he still does

Does the harness line slip out over the top of the hook as it starts to catapult you?

Dave what are you doing just before you catapult ?. ie: hooking in ? or moving your back foot in to the back strap ? etc

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baywavebill said..

grich62 said..
try turning your harness hook up side down it will take a while to learn how to hook in but will stop the catapult, mate of mine has always sailed with it upside down not sure if he still does

Does the harness line slip out over the top of the hook as it starts to catapult you?

yes as it try,s to pull you it will slip out also easier to unhook if you need to ,down side is it can unhook while sailing if you tend to sit low of the boom .best suited to a waist harness.also seat harness can catapult you at a higher speed than a wast harness because you have more leverage.

100% mast max down haul .it will throw air out the top instead of throwing you over the handle bars .
i use to use 30%-50 mast for a long time .85- 100% is more flex and gives you more time for recovery .
softer ,more flex .longer harness lines might also help.( better flex is more forgiving)


If you feel your going over ,don't freeze ..as most do ..let go your power hand .or push it away.
a impact vest is good ,if you catapult a lot ..

i don't use chest harnesses .i feel having the weight of your sail at the hips will get more of your weight to you feet .and it's lower ....

plus I've got a **** back ,and can't use any hook above my navel.

it comes down to technique ..really ...but those things may help ...

i hate catapulting ...luckily haven't done one for quite sometime ..touch wood.

Using a seat harness guides the force of your sail towards the center of gravity. As I see it, the seat harness helps you to counter the catapulting force longer, which means you might be able to avoid some catapults, while the remaining ones are more violent. Personally I've always found being grabbed by the pelvis and flung around with a vengeance slightly bewildering, even without any particular health issues, which is probably why over the years I've settled for a waist harness.
One more for Golf!

Bill, my 2c

Boards, Not sure what your quiver is now but would go for a FSW board. Make sure it's not too short and has plenty of V and or concave to be really soft in the bay chop. A bit of length will make it less likely to trip on the steep chop and throw you forward.
Maybe a thruster set up to pull the speed back a bit as well, fast boards on the Bay are a handful.
Set your straps up maybe a bit wider apart than you normally would, you will have a more secure stance than your feet close together.

Definitely get an impact vest

I would probably stick with a waist harness, you are less locked in than in a seat and probably easier to get unhooked if you feel like you are going over the front..

Don't sail at Rye where you might hit the bottom....best way to get flung known to man. Stay wide of those rocks at GP.

If you do get catapulted, and I know it all happens really fast.... try to throw the rig away from you and go into the fetal position.
My worst was two really smashed up ribs at Ricketts, I did everything wrong....was on Slalom gear on the Bay....was trying to Race guys half my age ( and kicking their arse)......when I dug the nose in for a second I tried to fight it and the harness threw me chest first into the boom, I should have abandoned ship and gone into crash position.

See you at GP next Sat.

OH, And long harness lines!

I always thought it was best to keep hanging onto the boom with both hands ..the theory was you wouldn't hit the gear?

I always hook my back foot into the strap first to give me some grip to counter any forward motion that might want to catapault me.

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sboardcrazy said..
I always thought it was best to keep hanging onto the boom with both hands ..the theory was you wouldn't hit the gear?

Maybe you are right? In most cases it happens too fast to do much about it but some catapults you sort of sense are about to happen and in those ones I now just let go curl up and try to protect my body. I can say the ones I have hurt myself are the ones where I have tried to steer the mast away from the nose of the board by hanging on and ended up slamming the rig.

I know this is not a catapult but you can see in this that I hung on and tried to save it. I got flung over the boom , slammed my head and it felt like I had torn my ear off as I slid along the luff of the sail on my head. I think I should have let go.

^ Ouch!

Its been suggested previously on seabreeze to sheet in with your rear hand while catapulting. This apparently initiates the beginning of a forward loop and swings the mast clear of the nose of the board and the rider clear of the mast and boom. I've never been fast or brave enough to try.

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John340 said..
Its been suggested previously on seabreeze to sheet in with your rear hand while catapulting. This apparently initiates the beginning of a forward loop and swings the mast clear of the nose of the board and the rider clear of the mast and boom. I've never been fast or brave enough to try.

Done this before and you become a helicopter with no control

I will add my vote for sheeting in & not letting go of the boom when you are about to go over the front, I haven't damaged the nose/board or myself when I sheet in

Have you tried longer harness lines?

I use a waist harness but 4 years ago I was forced to wear a seat harness for a year after breaking rear ribs in a surfing wipe-out onto reef. I always felt I was MORE prone to catapult when in the seat harness - felt like I was getting pulled onto my toes very quickly. Also was a lot less maneuverable.

Thanks for all these sugestions. I have not tried longers harness lines. Lots of great suggestions.
Cant do golf though as ive already stuffed up my wrists too much from windsurfing. Maybe lawn bowls!!!

When you can feel it going I think you should do all you can to continue saving yourself from catapulting. No good giving up and sheeting back hand in, ridiculous idea. Try head up wind and sheet out. Unless someone has a YouTube clip in mind.

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sboardcrazy said..
I always thought it was best to keep hanging onto the boom with both hands ..the theory was you wouldn't hit the gear?

Nope -dislocated shoulder that way.

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Mark _australia said..

sboardcrazy said..
I always thought it was best to keep hanging onto the boom with both hands ..the theory was you wouldn't hit the gear?

Nope -dislocated shoulder that way.

^^ what he said.

You dont want to hit your gear... there are many stories here on Seabreeze, of people smashing themselves into the gear and coming worse off for it.

If you are going to crash, push it away from you. The nose of your board can be fixed with some Solarez.

Have you maybe considered that a move from a planing short board in windy weather to a cruising long board and nicer days might be in order given your health issue

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Sparky said..
When you can feel it going I think you should do all you can to continue saving yourself from catapulting. No good giving up and sheeting back hand in, ridiculous idea. Try head up wind and sheet out. Unless someone has a YouTube clip in mind.

YouTube clip



Tip 2 in Peter Harts faster water starting, about 2 min in

FWIW, another great guru taught me to just sheet out hard with the front hand and not do the "improvised catapult". (And to always swim to the back of the board rather than tread water and gybe the sail to waterstart in the other direction if necessary.)

IMO the key is to never pull with both hands. (I've done a "hold on" thing before, but because I was pulling with both hands, the mast still smashed the nose). I think this is true for a lot of things in windsurfing. The sheet out method - pull with the front hand only. The "forward loop" - pull with the back hand.

I have been thinking about modifying my harness line so that it releases or breaks on a big crash rather than breaking me. Only sailing on seabreezes will also have to be my new mantra. Obviously i may have issues with it releasing whilst sailing but better than having to give up the sport. Any suggestions on how i could modify the harness lines?

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Mark _australia said..

sboardcrazy said..
I always thought it was best to keep hanging onto the boom with both hands ..the theory was you wouldn't hit the gear?

Nope -dislocated shoulder that way.

Argh!! Don't want to hear that.. So what do you do? There isn't really any time to think?

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G30ff0 said..

Sparky said..
When you can feel it going I think you should do all you can to continue saving yourself from catapulting. No good giving up and sheeting back hand in, ridiculous idea. Try head up wind and sheet out. Unless someone has a YouTube clip in mind.

YouTube clip

Tip 2 in Peter Harts faster water starting, about 2 min in

I notice when he catapults he's conveniently unhooked..I wouldn't want to be still hooked in under the sail..Great tips though..

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baywavebill said..
I have been thinking about modifying my harness line so that it releases or breaks on a big crash rather than breaking me. Only sailing on seabreezes will also have to be my new mantra. Obviously i may have issues with it releasing whilst sailing but better than having to give up the sport. Any suggestions on how i could modify the harness lines?

Here you go - remember to send me my share of the spoils when you patent it.