Should an old 280cm / 56cm / 115L handle the chop better than a modern 245 / 71 / 115L ?

I mean the likes of a Tabou Rocket with a soft double shoulders, or Severne Fox vs long and narrow Fanatics, F2s etc. from late 90s

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Obelix said..
Should an old 280cm / 56cm / 115L handle the chop better than a modern 245 / 71 / 115L ?

I mean the likes of a Tabou Rocket with a soft double shoulders, or Severne Fox vs long and narrow Fanatics, F2s etc. from late 90s

I ride Windtechs which are modern, but long and narrow, and they kill chop! I can blast down over the back of rollers all day without worrying about digging the nose in. The also truck upwind planing or subplaning.
I wouldn't trust my slalomboards in those conditions although that's just me..I don't have the skill, youth or confidence.

Not necessarily, a old long and narrow board that's flat in the planning area with hard rails will have a harsher ride in chop than say a Severne Fox with beveled rails, concaves transitioning to a V in the planning area.

So depends on the board?

Are short wide boards easier to fly on their long fins than narrow boards with shorter fins?
Seems the top sailors can fly across the top of chop, instead of bumping up and down in it.
So maybe depends on skill level. I don't know I try and avoid chop at all costs!

The Windtechs are super comfy in chop and you don't need to be an expert and be able to fly the fin.

V upfront makes a notable difference, have it on compact fat shapes

All I know is my shorter/wider 2017 IS80 and IS87 are quite a bit more controllable, and easier to ride in chop at high speed than my narrower and longer 2009/10/11 Isonic 87/86's.

And a lot easier to gybe in the chop!

If you want a really comfortable ride in heavy chop, just ride a slower board, like a wave/freeride board.

And I'm with Decrepit on this front, avoiding any sort of chop whenever I possibly can.

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decrepit said..
Are short wide boards easier to fly on their long fins than narrow boards with shorter fins?
Seems the top sailors can fly across the top of chop, instead of bumping up and down in it.
So maybe depends on skill level. I don't know I try and avoid chop at all costs!

Why not fitting a fast fin a on a long board?

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decrepit said..
Are short wide boards easier to fly on their long fins than narrow boards with shorter fins?
Seems the top sailors can fly across the top of chop, instead of bumping up and down in it.
So maybe depends on skill level. I don't know I try and avoid chop at all costs!

I think the same. Shorter wider boards also have a shorter planing flat than older narrow boards which helps with chop.
My 2014 Exocet S3 (235cm/110l/67cm) was narrower than most freerace boards and had quite a long planing flat. Its was good on flat water but the short chop we sometimes get it hasnt so good on. It seemed to hit the water quite far forward. It might have been different with a different freerace sail though. Its replacement, an AV Nuvolari is 229cm/119l/71cm, has a similar tail width, but a shorter planing flat. The nose is the same height off the ground. the same Its definitely faster over the chop.
I wouldnt go back to an old 280cm long narrow board we used to use.

Probs no use to you obelix, but I have an RRD Racing 91 Slalom Board not sure but around year 2000.
in perfect condition, crazy lite. so anyone who wants to test out the speed of long boards through chop, it's all yours, gift. Tweed Heads NSW.
My 2cents, it's very fast.

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Doggerland said..
V upfront makes a notable difference, have it on compact fat shapes

This ^
Construction also counts.

can't think of any reason a long narrow board is more comfortable other that it's slower so easier to manage.
longer boards aren't as comfortable in gusts or through the air. The nose is all over the place

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Obelix said.. >>>Why not fitting a fast fin a on a long board?

It's not the speed of the fin it's the length. You can't control a long fin on a narrow board, you don't have the leverage. A wide board gives you more leverage over the fin, and it can have more flex to generate lift. I'm guessing that's how they can fly over chop.

Thanks guys. Interesting to hear your experiences when you had an opportunity to compare.
It's coming from a difficult experience, where I thought I would break my neck sailing full speed downwind on a Rocket 145L. Admittedly, not the best choice for 30 knots winds.

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oldmic said..
Probs no use to you obelix, but I have an RRD Racing 91 Slalom Board not sure but around year 2000.
in perfect condition, crazy lite. so anyone who wants to test out the speed of long boards through chop, it's all yours, gift. Tweed Heads NSW.
My 2cents, it's very fast.

Cheers Oldmic. Nice of you to offer.
I am 104kg, so it would not be a good fit.
Considering a custom board -116L-125L so
figuring out design parameters.

So it won't be a long board, that is, won't be an opd style long board.

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Obelix said..

Considering a custom board -116L-125L so
figuring out design parameters.

Why not trust the person shaping your board? It won't be the first board they've designed and they already understand a lot of the issues you are talking about (and many you aren't even aware of). If you could feel mm differences in V, rocker, etc, "figuring out" the design parameters would be more useful. At this stage, imho, finding someone you trust to build the board to suit your needs would be better.

No offense intended, but if you are at the stage where through either lack of experience or funds you are riding a 145 l. board in 30 kts, you are much less likely to understand the nuances of board design for those conditions and what they offer. I don't intend to discourage you from asking the questions you've asked but when it does come that time, think in terms of describing what you want out of a board rather than going in and saying "I want X dimensions to the mm."

Speaking from personal experience in both custom boards and bicycles (the process is much the same), when you get your shiny new object that is several pay grades above your current technique, you'll see these strange new shapes and features and go, "WTF?" But then, in a few months, you'll have that session where you go, "Ah, now it makes sense."

Hi Obelix ,I will be sad when my 125 rocket dies as they for sure are great in ocean and rough ,the 105 is a classic as well
so it seems they are longer and narrower ,mines 250 , makes them behave like a smaller board than what they are my 125 rocket feel way smaller than my 122 Patrik slalom board ,and i Could never take it in the winds i take my 125 rocket in 77wide vs 69 .
new slalom board ,such as the Isonic are feeling more and more like free ride boards as designers are listening to the pro riders ,they want control and easier to use boards ,but we still want speed ,my 2022 113 litre Isonic is such a well behaved board ,but its fast so it would be harder to control in ocean to me ,as it would be harder to turn the on off button off ,as sailquik said you need a slower board with nice more rounded rails ,I think a new rocket ,or a custom sounds like a great idea ,I trust Tabou designers and would buy another as they are forever tweaking their boards ,their new wide rockets look fast but they do seem wide and you may find it a handful .
the longer windtech boards tick a lot of boxes too , happy searching .

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Tardy said..
,I trust Tabou designers and would buy another as they are forever tweaking their boards ,their new wide rockets look fast but they do seem wide and you may find it a handful .

When I was looking for a new freerace board in 2022 the Rocket+ was on the shortlist as it had decent reviews, and our local heavyweight slalom blaster had been doing high mileage on his Tabou Mantas and they had held up to his abuse. I was after a board for 6.5 & 7.5m sails, and the Rocket 113 at 73cm wide did seem very wide for 6.5m. I'd seen a few comments on forums about the Rocket+'s ability over harbour short chop, they were asking about different fins. When I compared the nose rocker to my old board, it was the same, about 20cm iirc. Thats and the longer planing flat and more shallow rocker entry could be an issue, like it was on my old board. I compared to a Fanatic Jag and JP Supersport they had in the centre, and they were similar. I longer planing flat and shallow rocker entry is good for early planing and lack of tail walking though.
I did think maybe it was because I used Ezzy Lions, a more freeride sail. If they had developed the freerace boards around full on slalom sails, or their brands 3 cam freerace sails, then the lift from those sails with more twist and looser leech might have been different, so not an issue.
I bought an AV Nuvolari 119l/71cm. Its flat from about the front straps to the back, still 20cm nose rocker, but the rocker starts earlier and as its just 229cm long the profile is less flat than the others I looked at. Its really good over the short chop as that seems to hit further back the board than my previous board.

Thanks guys.
I love my 145 l Rocket (2016 model).
Didn't like the 2013 115L model.

The 125L Rocket is definitely desirable. Maybe from 2015/2016 model onwards.
Not the "+" version. Had one. Although nice in certain conditions, wasn't suitable in the open ocean.
The length of 250cm feels comfortable to me, as I have a long leg span.
When I said a "long and narrow" I was referring to 280cm/56cm type of boards.

I had a Supersport before, also a Futura. These boards were nice but more suited for the river.
Tabou Speedster felt cramped to me.
Never had an ISonic experience. The latest ones certainly look nice, and people sail them well. I was hoping to test the Tribal Radix at Cervantes,but a demo was not available.

It sounds like I just need a smaller Rocket.

Yes v upfront + softer construction + thicker pads

To control board trim, narrow is better though for sure, otherwise we rely on ploughing through like with a freestyle board. That's when rails play a big role with absorbing chop from the side.

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Obelix said..
Should an old 280cm / 56cm / 115L handle the chop better than a modern 245 / 71 / 115L ?

I mean the likes of a Tabou Rocket with a soft double shoulders, or Severne Fox vs long and narrow Fanatics, F2s etc. from late 90s

Hard to tell with all the variables involved, but short (under 230) and wide boards in my experience have been much easier to handle in chop and rolls than old style (above 250). Old style (for similar rocker profile) seemed to have a little advantage with pick up. But, for example, my carbon art 2008 100L 250x58 was scary in chop. My 2022 AV 98L 228 x 62 is oblivious of it. RRD FSW 2008 vs 2018 seemed to ride not that differently, although the new one carries the extra volume with much more ease.

very difficult, these comparisons. much also depends on the fin (stiffness, release characteristics), in addition to the bottom shape, rocker, volume distribution, footstrap positions and (maybe least of all) the outline of the board.

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Obelix said..
Should an old 280cm / 56cm / 115L handle the chop better than a modern 245 / 71 / 115L ?

I mean the likes of a Tabou Rocket with a soft double shoulders, or Severne Fox vs long and narrow Fanatics, F2s etc. from late 90s

For a non-pro I would say yes - go longer and narrower.
Ask Neil Scheltema to build a board for you, he's doing limited customs and in my view his experience/skill re. board design/building is unrivalled

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azymuth said..

Obelix said..
Should an old 280cm / 56cm / 115L handle the chop better than a modern 245 / 71 / 115L ?

I mean the likes of a Tabou Rocket with a soft double shoulders, or Severne Fox vs long and narrow Fanatics, F2s etc. from late 90s

For a non-pro I would say yes - go longer and narrower.
Ask Neil Scheltema to build a board for you, he's doing limited customs and in my view his experience/skill re. board design/building is unrivalled

He used to build the Windtechs but decided to go customs.