I have a 144 Starboard Carve - a mint board in great condition. Because it's 2007 vintage I'm tempted to buy a new freeride board, I'm just not feeling it for a short wide board ('slimmer models' look nicer!) even though it practically may be the best option, especially considering I mainly sail in flatish water. My current board is 78cm wide and really like the 2015 121 Carve which is 72cm wide but will this make a noticeable difference in light wind conditions?. Haven't really tried other boards and a bit difficult to, but when the wind is all but 16knts or under I feel 78cm is too wide and gets increasingly unmanageable as wind picks up. Views welcome.

Went through the same thought process this season after trading my 2007 Carve 133L (72 wide). I wanted a smaller freeride board that would still do sails from 5.8 -7.5 (same quiver I used on the 133L), handle plenty of chop and ocean sailing too. Was a bit put off how wide boards were getting despite claims of how they perform in decent ocean chop. Ended up going against the freemove trend and got the narrower Carve 111L (66 wide). Have sailed the board half a dozen times now in 14-25 knts and the most notable weakness (for me) is getting planing in those marginal winds (14-15knts), it’s a real struggle (at 87kgs). Have jumped on a mates 108L Speedster(69 wide) in those same marginal winds and can get planning on same sail much much easier and you can really feel the benefit of that extra width when you're trying to pump the sail. So, if you’re only going with one board just figure out where you want the board’s weakness to be, marginal winds or nuking wind. Caveat – I’m only a rookie sailor so make of it what you will.

Yip rookie or otherwise very helpful. Have also looked at the 111 but felt it was too much of a compromise at 66cm relative to the sailing I do and the occasional time I'm in bigger chop.

this is my view ; wider boards are crap for us bigger folk when it requires smaller sails in rougher water. they are good at getting on the plane in lighter winds but are a hand full in stronger conditions,i have 2 boards the same volume 1 skinny 1 fat they both plane around the same time but the skinny is easier to handle and faster also when the wind kicks in you can really get moving . i am sorry i spent 2800 for a 2016 board that is know better than a 2000 board and basically the same as my bigger board in handling and early planing. i am going to have to sell i and lose a lot of money

Grich, it's a fair comment - especially with freeride boards. I sold a 2004 Fanatic 109lt triple-x (narrow) and upgraded to a 2015 Tabou 116lt 3S (short & wide). Don't get me wrong - I love the manouverability of the 3S, but miss the speed and versatility of the narrow triple-x.

I think windsurfing is fashion driven. For the last few years fashionable boards have been short and fat. In the 90s fashionable boards were long and skinny. Despite the fashion the great windsurfers sail better than people like me.

However I remember the first time I sailed a modern board, it was back in 2007 and it was a Tabou Rocket 140. I remember how easy it was to sail, how easily it got going and how easy it was to get into the foot straps. I think it was around 75cm wide and 245 cm long.

Good topic. What would really help is if you could demo a range of boards before committing to buying

At 80 kg I am happy with 68 wide and a 7.5. Works in 11 knots. But change to 63 wide as soon as wind allows.

Select to expand quote

Orange Whip said..
Good topic. What would really help is if you could demo a range of boards before committing to buying

absolutely,you cant believe the crap manufacturers say. i think sails have got wider wind ranges but boards have got less than older stuff . i often wonder how long it will be before we go back to skinny longer boards and tighter leach sails as the next step to sell boards. i am positive that a skinny board is easier to gibe than a fat in ocean conditions

Select to expand quote

Homestraight said..
I'm tempted to buy a new freeride board, I'm just not feeling it for a short wide board ('slimmer models' look nicer!)

Spot on. Those fat boards with the tucked in tails all look a bit eggy. They lack the down-to-business aura of a full on slalom board. Which makes me think they're not a marketing exercise. They might just have something going for them. All the manufacturers are making them, they can't all be wrong. Starboard AtomiQ, Tabou Rocket, Fanatic Gecko, ... you know you want one JP

Grilch have search in the gear reviews section for the AtomIQ , a lot of stuff in their about the new thin wide freerides, from myself and plenty of others.

The thinner tail in volume, wider nose for stability and planning smoother rails with a slalom board bias in design do make for a super easy to use fast and comfy board, the reviews on the JP/Tabou etc all seem to read the same.

how wide is too wide..? I have reservations on the bigger ones in open waters, but many bigger guys rave about the 110, so IO guess its a lot about matching board to body size also, the 'tails' in these boards are thin and the boards track through a gybe (be it planning or ploughing) with ease.

Been pushing the 100lt (68cm) last few days in open water..I cant say I'd be wanting anything bigger that's for sure, they certainly wont match a slalom board for pace and acceleration, but they offer a far more versatile range of use and with comfort and fun factor,
My tip is the 'width' will get moderated over the next seasons, but thin and wide is here to stay, certainly for freeride boards.

Technology improves all the time. Compare the cars of the 80 's to now. Better still, try playing golf or tennis with 20 year old gear. It just does not match. Materials and the way we shape them have all changed. Sometimes retro is the new fashion statement. I still have the surfboard Imrode in the 70's. It makes a nice ornamental feature inside the house. You could still ride it but there are much better boards out there. Is this the same for windsurfing? I think the modern designs are fine and would be happy to buy a new one every year. Too bad they come at a price.

Bought a 133lt Gecko earlier this year; can safely say its the best all-round board I've ever owned, up to a certain wind speed (although, I have sailed it with a small sail in pretty heavy weather once, when I didn't have a smaller board on the day, and we both survived). Of course, as an all-round free-ride, it won't do anyone thing outstandingly, but does most things way good enough for me at my level. Its a manourverable, but stable platform, and I can usually get planning with a 7.5 in marginal 15kts and a bit under (which I think is OK given i'm tall and heavy (6'2 and 95kg). It makes my usually hit/miss gybing almost look good (even in choppy water). I've sailed it bay and ocean, handles chop well enough (but I like sailing in chop, grew up sailing port philip bay). Was skepticle at first about the wide/short thing, but I'm probably a convert. I've had a lot of fun so far. (That all said, I still have a narrower, older style 100lt board for high wind).

Select to expand quote

MarkSSC said..
Technology improves all the time. Compare the cars of the 80 's to now. Better still, try playing golf or tennis with 20 year old gear. It just does not match. Materials and the way we shape them have all changed. Sometimes retro is the new fashion statement. I still have the surfboard Imrode in the 70's. It makes a nice ornamental feature inside the house. You could still ride it but there are much better boards out there. Is this the same for windsurfing? I think the modern designs are fine and would be happy to buy a new one every year. Too bad they come at a price.

so true, especially tennis racquets or at least the strings...total game changer.
70's windsurfer size of a semi trailer weight of dump truck , V's new inflatable, stick in the boot of your car tech (for light wind fun) I know which I'd rather be selling!

I don't think any of the current gear is that radical in design that it will be laughed at in years to come.

These new freeride/race boards, wider at the front thinner at the back have a heaps of positives going on, can't say I have heard anything but praise for them, they probably make some models a bit obsolete, eg in the Starboard range...want race/speed performance..Isconic..want speed but easier sailing, stability and manoeuvrability Atom... the futura's selling point is what? Not quite as quick as a isconic, but not the same fun and comfort factor as the Atom?


*As Orange said,
Demo is the way to go, 3/4 boards that I have purchased in recent years have been as a result of test demo or hire/rent, JP used to have a demo trailer which was pretty good, Simon at B/Crazy often has demo's.. basically he gives you a board you never want to part with so you are then forced to pay!
The SUP shops do really well at the demo thing also, certainly makes a difference in SUP, where there are many more models and brands to choose from.

Select to expand quote

JonesySail said..

MarkSSC said..
Technology improves all the time. Compare the cars of the 80 's to now. Better still, try playing golf or tennis with 20 year old gear. It just does not match. Materials and the way we shape them have all changed. Sometimes retro is the new fashion statement. I still have the surfboard Imrode in the 70's. It makes a nice ornamental feature inside the house. You could still ride it but there are much better boards out there. Is this the same for windsurfing? I think the modern designs are fine and would be happy to buy a new one every year. Too bad they come at a price.

so true, especially tennis racquets or at least the strings...total game changer.
70's windsurfer size of a semi trailer weight of dump truck , V's new inflatable, stick in the boot of your car tech (for light wind fun) I know which I'd rather be selling!

I don't think any of the current gear is that radical in design that it will be laughed at in years to come.

These new freeride/race boards, wider at the front thinner at the back have a heaps of positives going on, can't say I have heard anything but praise for them, they probably make some models a bit obsolete, eg in the Starboard range...want race/speed performance..Isconic..want speed but easier sailing, stability and manoeuvrability Atom... the futura's selling point is what? Not quite as quick as a isconic, but not the same fun and comfort factor as the Atom?


*As Orange said,
Demo is the way to go, 3/4 boards that I have purchased in recent years have been as a result of test demo or hire/rent, JP used to have a demo trailer which was pretty good, Simon at B/Crazy often has demo's.. basically he gives you a board you never want to part with so you are then forced to pay!
The SUP shops do really well at the demo thing also, certainly makes a difference in SUP, where there are many more models and brands to choose from.

Good lurk that.. been there done that..

one thing that the new boards do Reilly well is up wind ability because you can crank down on bigger fins with the wider tail . i think for me a board 66 to72 wide is ideal but with 130l to 140 volume as i am 120 kg all the new stuff is 78 to 80 in this size .my board sizes are jp exite ride 158, good board 12 to 18 knt ,ok if the winds get stronger,a jp super sport 136, 14 to 18 knts ,ok but when it gets more rough it tends to catch rails easy as it has less nose lift no more speed than the exite. because it catches a lot in the rough water, also easily lifts to much if waves and wind are one the nose in our short chop , f2 xantos 133 2000 era 14 to 25 plus ,faster than both jp,s easy to gibe in the rough ,very fast and controllable when the wind is howling , .when i brought the super sport it was to replace the f2 but it has not lived up to the hype from jp [super fast, super handling] i say this for our conditions only up here it is not relevant else where. i would like to here comments from other people who use the 80 wide boards how they find them in 20 knt chopy open ocean conditions .thanks all

I posted the original post, and my 78cm is a shocker in 20knts chop, but I've only got 2 yrs sailing experience under my belt. For those that don't have considerable dosh, I just don't get how wide boards are the "go". I would like to "get it" as I'd probably buy one, but feels like wide is a fad and a board 80cm or wider is starting to look like a specialist light wind, salom machine (or a fat skim board). To put this thread into perspective, the chat is about boards in the 66 to 72cm range, whereas the 2016 AtomIQ is a monsterous 84cm wide at 130L and 89cm wide at 140L. I don't intend to single out Starboard as all manufacturers are moving in the same direction, but the marketing has been poor - why should I believe wide is best, acknowledging I'm not about to go to the other extreme. For lake and harbour conditions I reckon 115L and about 72cm is a good mix for freeride blasting and as a single board solution which maximises enjoyable time on the water (which is a far cry from manufacturers prmoting freeride boards 80cm++).

Is this mainly a problem for heavier sailors? Lighter sailors base board selection on width, not having to worry too much about volume. There's an Atomiq 68.5 wide if you can get by with 100 litres. Tabou still makes traditional Rockets if you need volume without too much width.

Select to expand quote

Ian K said..
Is this mainly a problem for heavier sailors? Lighter sailors base board selection on width, not having to worry too much about volume. There's an Atomiq 68.5 wide if you can get by with 100 litres. Tabou still makes traditional Rockets if you need volume without too much width.

Maybe - because they use them in higher winds and hence bigger chop.
At 64kgs I use my 75cm wide 115ltre in 5-15kts so the chop isn't an issue.( I know I'm at the other end of the user spectrum... )
Like most gear they are probably designed for blokes about 80kgs so people at either end of that could find using them a different experience..?

Think I missed the issue you described with big people and big wide boards, yeah I can't imagine anything at around 80+cm wide being easy to handle in strong winds and rough water.
Must be a better solution?

Weigh 76KG and have average skills
I have two AtomIQs a 110L and a 120L 74.5cm /80 cm W
These are the best all round boards i have owned. (for me)
As a direct comparison previous boards included a 109L Fanatic cross at 62.5 cm W. Comfortable and fast in chop, but could not get consistent gybes or get upwind, could not uphaul in a sea of jellyfish when a water start meant a hundred stings. I hate jellyfish.
I can uphaul the 110 if I have to due to width and my gybes are much better and improving with each sail. Goes upwind really easily with the right fin. (Included fin is crap). The 110 Works with a 5.0M up to a 7.8M sail. The 120L only gets use with an 8.5M in low wind days

Wide boards may be better for people with average skills or don't sail regularly, trying learn/improve their gybing or people who have access to relatively flat water, and don't want to buy or carry 2 or 3 boards for a 12/25 knot wind range.
For expert sailors it probably does not make sense , and yes they can beat the S*%^t out of you in big chop despite what the sales blurb says.

No board does everything well.

Select to expand quote

McSailing said..
Weigh 76KG and have average skills
I have two AtomIQs a 110L and a 120L 74.5cm /80 cm W
These are the best all round boards i have owned. (for me)
As a direct comparison previous boards included a 109L Fanatic cross at 62.5 cm W. Comfortable and fast in chop, but could not get consistent gybes or get upwind, could not uphaul in a sea of jellyfish when a water start meant a hundred stings. I hate jellyfish.
I can uphaul the 110 if I have to due to width and my gybes are much better and improving with each sail. Goes upwind really easily with the right fin. (Included fin is crap). The 110 Works with a 5.0M up to a 7.8M sail. The 120L only gets use with an 8.5M in low wind days

Wide boards may be better for people with average skills or don't sail regularly, trying learn/improve their gybing or people who have access to relatively flat water, and don't want to buy or carry 2 or 3 boards for a 12/25 knot wind range.
For expert sailors it probably does not make sense , and yes they can beat the S*%^t out of you in big chop despite what the sales blurb says.

No board does everything well.

Ok correct me if I'm wrong but my understanding of the new wider freemove boards is easier gybing due to curvy outline and fine rails and early planning due to the width. Light to medium conditions and people who are looking for reasonably easy gybes and easy freeriding are the intended target.

I thought about this and went for a more traditional narrower freeride board (Hawk 113) as I wanted to take it out in fresh to strong winds and wring it's bloody neck and the hawk does this very well.

I think the wider style boards are more for intermediate riders and the narrow boards for people with a more advanced skillset. However the Atom IQ seems to blur this line by making everyone happy.

Is anyone else confused?

My experience...
They do plan very early and stay on longer than many other boards.

I am anything but advanced, and a large size (138L - 87cm) didn't work for me.
128L worked or an advanced/experienced sailor. So in this case, did not confirm Cluffy's comment.

138L worked well in large chop as it just followed it nicely, but was very difficult in medium chop.
Found it difficult to move in any direction but straight.

I imagine they work better in smaller sizes.
So to side with Ian's comment above that they probably work better for smaller riders.

AtomIQ - I hear only nice thing. (Again, for the 110L size).

The wide boards do have there place ..are boards getting better i would say ..yes...
A big advantage with wider boards ,is you can use them with less volume .eg.thin board 64 wide 130 litre drop 6-10 litre .
To a 69 to a 124 litre.Every board is different as far as designers go .but I reckon wide boards are great with the right sail and the right wind strength .In open ocean 20 knots I found anything over 75 wide was pushing it ,depending on board brand .where 68-69 ,a lot nicer to use .
As soon as the wind drops to say 13-16 knot the wide board have the advantage .Less chop plane through lulls.

Current boards ..105 litre @63 ,125 litre @69 ,130 litre @ 85

I can't imagine anyone selling a new board design by saying "well, its not much better than our old board but it does feel a bit different and some people may like it more than the old design".....If you design something new and different you have to hype it up. Having said that I like the new wider slimmer designs. Where I sail in the Tamar river it can be smooth at the start of a run but in the middle water conditions can be crazy with wind against tide. These new designs make sailing the crazy stuff much easier and being a shorter length they feel nice and compact when jumping despite the volume. I think the gybe can be easier on the wide styles but I do like the way those older narrower shapes really locked in at the corners. Board designs have been pretty good for 15 years but having something new and different to sail is always fun.

Select to expand quote

JonesySail said..

MarkSSC said..
Technology improves all the time. Compare the cars of the 80 's to now. Better still, try playing golf or tennis with 20 year old gear. It just does not match. Materials and the way we shape them have all changed. Sometimes retro is the new fashion statement. I still have the surfboard Imrode in the 70's. It makes a nice ornamental feature inside the house. You could still ride it but there are much better boards out there. Is this the same for windsurfing? I think the modern designs are fine and would be happy to buy a new one every year. Too bad they come at a price.

so true, especially tennis racquets or at least the strings...total game changer.
70's windsurfer size of a semi trailer weight of dump truck , V's new inflatable, stick in the boot of your car tech (for light wind fun) I know which I'd rather be selling!

I don't think any of the current gear is that radical in design that it will be laughed at in years to come.

These new freeride/race boards, wider at the front thinner at the back have a heaps of positives going on, can't say I have heard anything but praise for them, they probably make some models a bit obsolete, eg in the Starboard range...want race/speed performance..Isconic..want speed but easier sailing, stability and manoeuvrability Atom... the futura's selling point is what? Not quite as quick as a isconic, but not the same fun and comfort factor as the Atom?


*As Orange said,
Demo is the way to go, 3/4 boards that I have purchased in recent years have been as a result of test demo or hire/rent, JP used to have a demo trailer which was pretty good, Simon at B/Crazy often has demo's.. basically he gives you a board you never want to part with so you are then forced to pay!
The SUP shops do really well at the demo thing also, certainly makes a difference in SUP, where there are many more models and brands to choose from.

Oh no Jonsey, had Futuras for 4 years, outstanding boards, easy to sail and eat chop for breakfast and very quick in chop and the rough stuff ! They are a great progression board also. Different horses for different courses !

..... anyway if you want a starboard Freeride then Atom or Carve is the way to go, and for something smaller Fanatic make a Gecko 97

Select to expand quote

MarkSSC said..
Technology improves all the time. Compare the cars of the 80 's to now. Better still, try playing golf or tennis with 20 year old gear. It just does not match. Materials and the way we shape them have all changed. Sometimes retro is the new fashion statement. I still have the surfboard Imrode in the 70's. It makes a nice ornamental feature inside the house. You could still ride it but there are much better boards out there. Is this the same for windsurfing? I think the modern designs are fine and would be happy to buy a new one every year. Too bad they come at a price.

Doesn't it depend on what you mean by "better"? On a typical Sydney day, on a typical Sydney bay, you'd go faster on a typical 1976 board than a typical 2015 one, so if you can only sail at fixed times and like to go places when you sail, the new board may not be better.

Select to expand quote

Chris 249 said..

MarkSSC said..
Technology improves all the time. Compare the cars of the 80 's to now. Better still, try playing golf or tennis with 20 year old gear. It just does not match. Materials and the way we shape them have all changed. Sometimes retro is the new fashion statement. I still have the surfboard Imrode in the 70's. It makes a nice ornamental feature inside the house. You could still ride it but there are much better boards out there. Is this the same for windsurfing? I think the modern designs are fine and would be happy to buy a new one every year. Too bad they come at a price.

Doesn't it depend on what you mean by "better"? On a typical Sydney day, on a typical Sydney bay, you'd go faster on a typical 1976 board than a typical 2015 one, so if you can only sail at fixed times and like to go places when you sail, the new board may not be better.

Good luck racing your 76' gear against a 2015' SB Phantom and modern sail to test your theory that old gear is heaps better, in typical Sydney bay conditions.

The Phantom isn't the typical modern board, though. The typical modern board is slow on a typical Sydney day where it's often 8 knots or less in many places. Even all the windSUPS I've sailed on or against are slower than a 1976 board in the light winds most places get most of the time, so are they such an improvement ? I've got big lightweight Raceboards like a Phantom that I love, but to me they are a PITA when it comes to light wind days, and in the light they aren't as fast as expected given the extra sail area.

What I was musing about is that while technology can improve, often it's on an "improvement" for a very specific purpose and that can make it less than ideal for other purposes. To use comparisons from other sports like Mark did, for good fleet and club racing a carbon dinghy isn't necessarily "better" than a single-skin 'glass one. Even in bikes, my aero carbon frame is not "better" than my alloy or steel frames apart from certain specific areas. Windsurfing often seems to just follow one trend for a while and go too far because it's assumed that the fact that new gear is better in some ways means it's better in all ways.


PS - I said '76 cause that was the year windsurfing arrived here. Those very early boards really were crap in anything more than about 8 knots, but there was a big improvement within a few years.