I've noticed not many people seem to talk about camless freerace sails below 6.5. I guess this is perhaps because the bulk of users are using cammed race sail instead and are fine overpowered, or are freeriders that move onto wave sails below 5.3 once it gets windy enough for it.

I have a freewave board + wave sails up to 5.3 for the ocean, and a camless freerace in 6.5 for blasting around on the lake. I'm thinking about adding a 5.5/5.7 freerace for when it's too windy for a 6.5 on the lake but I want the speed and stability of a freerace instead of the instability of a wave sail for blasting and around on a 100L freeride board.

Does anyone use a camless freerace (severne ncx / point 7 acx / Np speedster / any of the other brands) in a size below 6.0 instead of a 5 batten wave/freeride sail?

-How much more stable is it?
- how much faster is it than a wave sail?
-Is it so choppy by that point that you might as well be on a wave sail anyway.
-What style / sized board do you use with it?

I use full race sails down to 5.6, if I'm at a good spot for it. The feeling is very different from a wave sail, you can stay fully locked in and fly through the lulls etc. When a gust hits you there is no change in the power position in the sails, you just hang on and enjoy the ride. :)

I had a newish 6.0NCX for a while. I felt like my elderly 5.0 NP Search wave sail had more grunt.

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MHSA said..

-Is it so choppy by that point that you might as well be on a wave sail anyway.

I guess thats the deciding factor.

Not a no cam, but years ago I had a Naish Redline 3 cam 5.6m I used in Poole Harbour and I went about 3 knots faster than with an Ezzy 4.7m wave sail in the same wind strength. On the same board, Exocet Cross 90l, which is more like a small freeride rather than freewave.
It was definitely more fun for blasting around on. I think modern no cams are a lot better than smaller sails of old.

I recently thought about changing my smaller kit after buying a proper Quatro FWS for waves, but with my Ezzy Tiger 5.2 & Exocet Cross 94l I can still get my sailing as fast as I want in the harbour as its quite often choppy.

If I had proper flat water, I would most definitely get a small freerace board and 5.5m no cam freerace sail.

www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Windsurfing/General/Small-sails-4-5-NCX-vs-Gator?page=1#10

Hi NHSA, I have been using Point-7 ACX 6.5 and under for five years. Right now I have a 6.5 and a 6.0, but I owned a 5.4 that is the size you are interested in. So to answer your questions:

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MHSA said..
-How much more stable is it?

When compared with the Spy 5.4 the ACX 5.4 is just a different sail. Both are very stable, but where the Spy can be opened up and slowed down as you desire, the ACX mode of operation is locked down. When it is it can take an amazing amount of wind.

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MHSA said..
- how much faster is it than a wave sail?

The ACX will be faster by a bit, but in 5.4 conditions you will not be going that fast, unless you are in a speed spot

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MHSA said..
-Is it so choppy by that point that you might as well be on a wave sail anyway.
-What style / sized board do you use with it?

I used the ACX 5.4 with a Carbon Art 52 or Excocet 62, and RRD FSW 60, but the slalom boards were either not well balanced with it, or too uncomfortable to ride in the conditions. That is why switched to the Spy 5.4 and ACX 6.0 combo. The 6.0 works great with the RRD and the slalom boards, and the 5.4 Spy is perfect for the RRD. Now that I have a AV Modena 60, a slalom board, I am missing the ACX 5.4. The Modena is incredibly comfortable in rough conditions, and it could use a 5.4 ACX when the 6.0 is massively overpowered.

hello, until a month ago I was using the Point7 ACX 5.4 now, after 3 years, I switched to the ACZ 5.2, just for a change. The ACX 5.4 is much more stable than a wave sail; I had a Spy 4.7 but the ACX 5.4 covers a much larger wind range, I used it in very strong winds (average wind around 35 knots and gusts at almost 50 knots) in combination with Exocet RS2 and Patrik slalom 92 and I must say that for slalom use I have never felt the need for a smaller sail; in 3 years that I had it only once I used my Spy 4.0m because the gusts were over 55 knots. The ACX is very fast but, unlike a cam sail, it is always very easy to manage the power. If you are looking for power, stability, ease of handling strong and gusty winds, this is an excellent sail, I recommend it

No cam sails take longer to get going and when you hit a lull they depower much, much quicker.

If the wind is consistent and you are powered up they are not that much slower but in gusty conditions they are nowhere near as good as a small race sail.

I only sail in winds up to high twenties, anything stronger and i head for the carpark.

NP Speedster & older He'll ants are super stable with 7 battens but certainly like being full of wind. Cams obvi more stable in gusts but camless lighter and have throw about ability. I prefer cams when foiling in gusty conditions vs camless.

I don't know if Severne Gators are in the line of sails you are talking about.
I switch down to a 5.7m Gator from my twin cam 7m Turbo once it gets to c 20kts.
They are very user friendly with an even power delivery and you can depower them easier than the twin cammed Turbos.
The Turbos are more stable in gusty conditions and more grunt off the wind but are harder to waterstart in bigger chop. The big foot area gets caught in the wind swells once the lake builds up and that pushes the sail back into the water so you have to free the tip again. The gators with their higher foot don't have that problem.

Thanks for the replies everyone. Great info.
I think I underestimated how big of a step down going to a 5.5 from a 6.5 is. That's a hell of alot of wind you're using these smaller blasting sails in!

I think from the feedback then I certainly wouldn't want to go smaller than a 5.5. Possibly a 6.0 to go with my 6.5 is the sweet spot since If it's windy enough for a 5.5 freerace then I probably don't want to be on a board as big as my 100 x 62cm board. And getting a smaller freerace board isn't viable since I want one board for the lake and I feel 100l is the best all round size.


In regards to gator vs ncx. I'm certainly looking more towards an ncx. While the gator is a great all round sail (ive had them before) they sail much more Like a 5 batten wave sail than a freerace sail so it would be too similar to my my 5.3 wave sail. Also the gator would be used alot smaller than an ncx. I.e I'd use a 6.0 gator in the same wind strength as a 6.5 ncx.

I also was looking for a high wind sail a while back
I had a no cam 6,0 but still it would over power being a free ride sail once out of its range , since I brought a 4 cam 5,7 venom race sail with 100 % 400 mast , my worries of unable to hang on has gone , 20knots it can get going and had it in 30 knots plus too , it certainly was a good add to my quiver , it's very fast too ,

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MHSA said..
Thanks for the replies everyone. Great info.
I think I underestimated how big of a step down going to a 5.5 from a 6.5 is. That's a hell of alot of wind you're using these smaller blasting sails in!

I think from the feedback then I certainly wouldn't want to go smaller than a 5.5. Possibly a 6.0 to go with my 6.5 is the sweet spot since If it's windy enough for a 5.5 freerace then I probably don't want to be on a board as big as my 100 x 62cm board. And getting a smaller freerace board isn't viable since I want one board for the lake and I feel 100l is the best all round size.


In regards to gator vs ncx. I'm certainly looking more towards an ncx. While the gator is a great all round sail (ive had them before) they sail much more Like a 5 batten wave sail than a freerace sail so it would be too similar to my my 5.3 wave sail. Also the gator would be used alot smaller than an ncx. I.e I'd use a 6.0 gator in the same wind strength as a 6.5 ncx.

Well ... just when I finished saying that I should have kept the ACX 5.4 for my AV 88L Modena slalom ... today I took it out with a Point-7 ACZ 6.8, a twin cams Wind conditions were moderate at the beginning and then windy, happily at the 20 knots mark. And the Modena was so happy. Stable like a rock, I could just ride in complete control concentrating on keeping the board on its rearmost 20-30 cm. Could not believe how much more steady the going was with respect to the no cams ACX 6.5 I used all season. Even jibes were easier, with the power carried into the turn despite some questionable entries (like in the photo below! Put your weight forward Duzzi!).

Only negative is the usual. I never fell today but I wondered how hard it would have been a water start with 6.8 on top of me in 20 plus ...

but ... moral of the story for this thread.

1. I will be getting a ACZ 5.8 next season. Bye bye ACX 6.0, no smaller ACX, and too bad if the ACZ 5.8 might be doubtful on the RRD FSW (who knows ... it might work).
2. Sails and boards improve. Besides the Modena that is my best ever slalom board, my last cam sails were HSM GPS and a Switchblade 7.3. The ACZ is in another planet of comfort and effortless speed. It is ridiculously light when powered up, and makes me wander about getting a 3-cams ACK.
3. Small no cams freerace sails? I am no longer too sure. My opinion seems to rooted in the past. The ACZ for me is a game changer.

Im currently using a KA kult 5.8 and a fairly old KA Koyote 5.9 (now KA Kruse). Even though they are similar sizes they are way different and both camless. The Kult has a lot more power for its size and is more like a wave sail in that regard, the Koyote is flatter and faster and will hold alot more wind, similar to the cammed sails but yes lacking a little stability. So the cut of the sail has as much to do with the outcome as the cam vs no-cam status
I waft from preferring cams...or nor....from time to time. No need to be religious about it.

HUGE fan of small camless freerace sails. Quicker to rig, super light, easier to waterstart, look at them sideways and they rotate compared to cams. I find the top end almost as quick, but they definitely don't plane through the holes as well as cams. HEAPS more juice than a wave sail though and WAY more stable. I find them very happy fully powered with slalom and freerace boards whereas wave sails are not.

I have 7.2, 6.2, 5.2 NP Hellcats (pre Speedster) and a 4.7 Point 7 ACX. I have never come close to wanting less gap between the Hellcats due to their huge wind range. The 5.2 Hellcat is possibly my all time favourite sail. I wept when they stopped making them in a 5.2 then wept a bit more when they stopped making Hellcats, though I haven't tried a Speedster. I also have a 5.2 Evo and I love it too, but it's no where near as user friendly as the Hellcat.

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BSN101 said..
NP Speedster & older He'll ants are super stable with 7 battens but certainly like being full of wind. Cams obvi more stable in gusts but camless lighter and have throw about ability. I prefer cams when foiling in gusty conditions vs camless.

Speedster & Hell Cats.