Hi all looking for some advice on repairing this board , I think i can see the core so needs proper repair , but it is a really awkward place to put glass. Any got any tips ? I can't really afford a shop repair at the moment.

this is going to sad mad, but the website says it is pvc construction, so is the is the out black layer pvc ? If so what stop me repair it like a bumper with melted pvc ?

Select to expand quote

onshoreroy said..
Hi all looking for some advice on repairing this board , I think i can see the core so needs proper repair , but it is a really awkward place to put glass. Any got any tips ? I can't really afford a shop repair at the moment.

this is going to sad mad, but the website says it is pvc construction, so is the is the out black layer pvc ? If so what stop me repair it like a bumper with melted pvc ?

The "PVC" is the core sandwich layer, over the inner core which is EPS. Looks like pigmented epoxy/filler & glass was damaged on the corner. I would repair with the same: epoxy resin & glass. You could use an epoxy filler for a temporary repair but if you bump it, it will likely crack.

If it was mine, would first stand up in the inside corner of a wall with damaged corner the lowest part sitting on the carpet with several layers of paper towels under it, wait a day and see if any water comes out first, then when paper towels are dry use a thickened adhesive epoxy like Six10 using a mixing tip, or mix by hand exactly 2:1 resin to hardener, just give it at least 5 or maybe 7 days to cure before exposing to water.

You don't have to glass it, as its not structural. Just filler and sand and paint. But then it will of course be weak when you stand it up or bump it again.

Glassing that is not hard, two steps is best -

(1) glass bottom and take it past the edge as you're missing some board length.
Shape the pointy bit - outline only that is.

(2) Flip it over, fill and reshape the deck/rail down to meet the outline of the pointy bit
Glass that top/rail

And as per above reply - no, PVC foam (divinycell etc) is not PVC like pipes.

If it was me, I would just use glass (actually I would use carbon so I don't have to paint it) use plenty of glass to fill the void and vacuum bag it. If I was out in the field I would just do the same, but with out the vacuum pump, possible doing it in stages, just wait until the resin is hard but still has a stick to hit, that way you can do it stages. If I was in the beach I would do the same with glass and solar curing resin.

Just jam as much fibre in as you can, resin is brittle without the fibre, make it proud and use a sanding block to remove the excess.
The hard part will be not making a big mess of the paintwork around the repair.

Question, after filling with glass and epoxy then sanding back to get the right form shape would you then put a final coat of epoxy over the repair to seal the glass then paint over or just paint over?

Select to expand quote

racerX said..
If it was me, I would just use glass (actually I would use carbon so I don't have to paint it) use plenty of glass to fill the void and vacuum bag it. If I was out in the field I would just do the same, but with out the vacuum pump, possible doing it in stages, just wait until the resin is hard but still has a stick to hit, that way you can do it stages. If I was in the beach I would do the same with glass and solar curing resin.

Just jam as much fibre in as you can, resin is brittle without the fibre, make it proud and use a sanding block to remove the excess.
The hard part will be not making a big mess of the paintwork around the repair.

Sigh, if you don't actually know you're better off saying nothing.
No need to set people off on some obscure path.

Select to expand quote

Mr Hooper said..

Sigh, if you don't actually know you're better off saying nothing.
No need to set people off on some obscure path.

Ok what don't I know? Genuine question! The whole point of a forum is to say something, such that someone can correct them. Peace

I made an identical repair on one of my boards. An hour to setup, I used carbon fibre that I had lying around, twenty minutes to sand next day, no need to paint old board, the carbon looks fine. I don't have days to spend driving boards to repairers and picking up etc. Board is still going strong, manage to survive more baggage handlers who did the damage in the first place...

Ok, maybe my reply was a little harsh. Apologies.
My point is that there should just be a basic explanation for a very simple repair. No need for complicated processes like vac bagging or expensive, difficult products like carbon.
For this repair I would say,

Sand and round off affected area with 80 grit. No sharp edges or shiny stuff visible.

Apply 3 layers of 160gr glass cut at 45 deg to help it wrap.

Sand and fair in glass with 120 / 80 grit. No shiny bits visible.

Apply filler coat of Q Cell resin mix. Car bog if you're in a hurry.

Fair in and make correct shape.

Paint if needed.

Don't rush it or take short cuts, it will take you twice as long.

Cheers, Hoops

International ,2 pack or 2 part mix ,EPI FILL is good stuff ,will handle a good knock too ..leave for 20-25 minutes then you can shape it will a wet finger ,
less sanding .or no sanding ,its made for boats so more water resistant than car bog ,

Select to expand quote

Tardy said..
International ,2 pack or 2 part mix ,EPI FILL is good stuff ,will handle a good knock too ..leave for 20-25 minutes then you can shape it will a wet finger ,
less sanding .or no sanding ,its made for boats so more water resistant than car bog ,

Not correct. Epifill is a 24 hour product.
The International range of products is great but total overkill for small board repairs.
Im trying to make it straight forward and easy for everyone!!!
Why complicate it ???

Select to expand quote

Mr Hooper said..
Im trying to make it straight forward and easy for everyone!!!
Why complicate it ???

yes people, when Mr. Hopper say something don't you dare to criticize him or give a different opinion.BTW, I agree with you suggested plan. But you sound like my I-know-it-all grumpy uncle

pic of a tail I re did using similar process Mr. hopper suggests. Key is not to rush and take your time. Kitchen plastic foil is my replacement for vacuum bagging.

Select to expand quote

WillyWind said..

Mr Hooper said..
Im trying to make it straight forward and easy for everyone!!!
Why complicate it ???

yes people, when Mr. Hopper say something don't you dare to criticize him or give a different opinion.BTW, I agree with you suggested plan. But you sound like my I-know-it-all grumpy uncle

pic of a tail I re did using similar process Mr. hopper suggests. Key is not to rush and take your time. Kitchen plastic foil is my replacement for vacuum bagging.

Oooh I may need to do this to the 120 xcite I just grabbed. Nice board!

Its made it bumpier!!

As Hoops said, why complicate it. You don't need to vacuum bag a great many repairs, and certianly therefore do not need to try and think of substitutes. I'd not do anything on that tail repair except glass and then fill (which will be smoother than the wrinkled plastic has done)

Yes, the plastic makes it a little bit wrinkly but it keeps the glass totally stuck to the board even in sharp corners. When you use plastic film on rounded edges, the result is much, much better. Also, because of it, you don't need to sand because the repair is flush (you sand a little bit for the final coat to "grab")

Select to expand quote

WillyWind said..

Mr Hooper said..
Im trying to make it straight forward and easy for everyone!!!
Why complicate it ???

yes people, when Mr. Hopper say something don't you dare to criticize him or give a different opinion.BTW, I agree with you suggested plan. But you sound like my I-know-it-all grumpy uncle

pic of a tail I re did using similar process Mr. hopper suggests. Key is not to rush and take your time. Kitchen plastic foil is my replacement for vacuum bagging.

I'm not grumpy, you're free to use as many incorrect products and unnecessary processes as you like. I'm just try to make it easy for you ))
That repair looks pretty good. I wouldn't bother with the Glad Wrap though.
If you cut the glass at 45 degrees it will wrap that very easily.

Select to expand quote

Mr Hooper said..

Tardy said..
International ,2 pack or 2 part mix ,EPI FILL is good stuff ,will handle a good knock too ..leave for 20-25 minutes then you can shape it will a wet finger ,
less sanding .or no sanding ,its made for boats so more water resistant than car bog ,

Not correct. Epifill is a 24 hour product.
The International range of products is great but total overkill for small board repairs.
Im trying to make it straight forward and easy for everyone!!!
Why complicate it ???

EPI FILLis not complicated

Select to expand quote

Tardy said..

Mr Hooper said..

Tardy said..
International ,2 pack or 2 part mix ,EPI FILL is good stuff ,will handle a good knock too ..leave for 20-25 minutes then you can shape it will a wet finger ,
less sanding .or no sanding ,its made for boats so more water resistant than car bog ,

Not correct. Epifill is a 24 hour product.
The International range of products is great but total overkill for small board repairs.
Im trying to make it straight forward and easy for everyone!!!
Why complicate it ???

EPI FILLis not complicated

That is such minor damage, do not see the point of glassing it, did any glass layers get exposed on the edges? Just fill, shape, and sand. Never used Epifill, but sounds similar to Six10 thickened epoxy in that you can shape it before it sets, Six10 you can get so close to original shape using a blade may not even have to sand.

Select to expand quote

Tardy said..

Mr Hooper said..

Tardy said..
International ,2 pack or 2 part mix ,EPI FILL is good stuff ,will handle a good knock too ..leave for 20-25 minutes then you can shape it will a wet finger ,
less sanding .or no sanding ,its made for boats so more water resistant than car bog ,

Not correct. Epifill is a 24 hour product.
The International range of products is great but total overkill for small board repairs.
Im trying to make it straight forward and easy for everyone!!!
Why complicate it ???

EPI FILLis not complicated

No it's not complicated. It's a very good product.
If you're happy paying $80.00 for a 500ml can of bog that takes 24 hours to go off then you should use it. Entirely up to you :)

Select to expand quote

Sandman1221 said..

Tardy said..

Mr Hooper said..

Tardy said..
International ,2 pack or 2 part mix ,EPI FILL is good stuff ,will handle a good knock too ..leave for 20-25 minutes then you can shape it will a wet finger ,
less sanding .or no sanding ,its made for boats so more water resistant than car bog ,

Not correct. Epifill is a 24 hour product.
The International range of products is great but total overkill for small board repairs.
Im trying to make it straight forward and easy for everyone!!!
Why complicate it ???

EPI FILLis not complicated

That is such minor damage, do not see the point of glassing it, did any glass layers get exposed on the edges? Just fill, shape, and sand. Never used Epifill, but sounds similar to Six10 thickened epoxy in that you can shape it before it sets, Six10 you can get so close to original shape using a blade may not even have to sand.

Glassing it will be a lot stronger. Just filling without sanding, the bog will likely fall out as soon as you touch it on something.

Select to expand quote

Mr Hooper said..

Sandman1221 said..

Tardy said..

Mr Hooper said..

Tardy said..
International ,2 pack or 2 part mix ,EPI FILL is good stuff ,will handle a good knock too ..leave for 20-25 minutes then you can shape it will a wet finger ,
less sanding .or no sanding ,its made for boats so more water resistant than car bog ,

Not correct. Epifill is a 24 hour product.
The International range of products is great but total overkill for small board repairs.
Im trying to make it straight forward and easy for everyone!!!
Why complicate it ???

EPI FILLis not complicated

That is such minor damage, do not see the point of glassing it, did any glass layers get exposed on the edges? Just fill, shape, and sand. Never used Epifill, but sounds similar to Six10 thickened epoxy in that you can shape it before it sets, Six10 you can get so close to original shape using a blade may not even have to sand.

Glassing it will be a lot stronger. Just filling without sanding, the bog will likely fall out as soon as you touch it on something.

Disagree when it comes to Six10 thickened adhesive epoxy, it will bond and become one with the board! And it can take a hit without cracking like a plug of normal epoxy might, used it to epoxy in SS wing screw inserts into a carbon fuselage on a foil, have hit sea life and bay bottom multiple times with no damage. Initially it is like soft butter, so you can shape it and it will stay in place.

Select to expand quote

Sandman1221 said..

Mr Hooper said..

Sandman1221 said..

Tardy said..

Mr Hooper said..

Tardy said..
International ,2 pack or 2 part mix ,EPI FILL is good stuff ,will handle a good knock too ..leave for 20-25 minutes then you can shape it will a wet finger ,
less sanding .or no sanding ,its made for boats so more water resistant than car bog ,

Not correct. Epifill is a 24 hour product.
The International range of products is great but total overkill for small board repairs.
Im trying to make it straight forward and easy for everyone!!!
Why complicate it ???

EPI FILLis not complicated

That is such minor damage, do not see the point of glassing it, did any glass layers get exposed on the edges? Just fill, shape, and sand. Never used Epifill, but sounds similar to Six10 thickened epoxy in that you can shape it before it sets, Six10 you can get so close to original shape using a blade may not even have to sand.

Glassing it will be a lot stronger. Just filling without sanding, the bog will likely fall out as soon as you touch it on something.

Disagree when it comes to Six10 thickened adhesive epoxy, it will bond and become one with the board! And it can take a hit without cracking like a plug of normal epoxy might, used it to epoxy in SS wing screw inserts into a carbon fuselage on a foil, have hit sea life and bay bottom multiple times with no damage. Initially it is like soft butter, so you can shape it and it will stay in place.

That's ok you're entitled to your opinion, even if it is wrong
That Six10 stuff is probably ok for a temporary repair but long term I would fix it correctly. I can see a bit of exposed glass or PVC in that photo. If you're ever in doubt it's always best to put some glass on it.

Cheers, Hoops

Awesome you guys gave me a good laugh. "Grumpy" and "Mr Hopper"
I'd bog up, glass over, filler coat, paint. It just a little damage, just needs a simple repair.

^^^ Careful Mike you'll be the next person here who doesn't know anything, just like Hoops and I. Not a clue

Easy, Duct tape, done.

Ahh I was just going to say spot on Mike !

Cheers, Grumpy Hoops :))

Select to expand quote

Mr Hooper said..

Sandman1221 said..

Mr Hooper said..

Sandman1221 said..

Tardy said..

Mr Hooper said..

Tardy said..
International ,2 pack or 2 part mix ,EPI FILL is good stuff ,will handle a good knock too ..leave for 20-25 minutes then you can shape it will a wet finger ,
less sanding .or no sanding ,its made for boats so more water resistant than car bog ,

Not correct. Epifill is a 24 hour product.
The International range of products is great but total overkill for small board repairs.
Im trying to make it straight forward and easy for everyone!!!
Why complicate it ???

EPI FILLis not complicated

That is such minor damage, do not see the point of glassing it, did any glass layers get exposed on the edges? Just fill, shape, and sand. Never used Epifill, but sounds similar to Six10 thickened epoxy in that you can shape it before it sets, Six10 you can get so close to original shape using a blade may not even have to sand.

Glassing it will be a lot stronger. Just filling without sanding, the bog will likely fall out as soon as you touch it on something.

Disagree when it comes to Six10 thickened adhesive epoxy, it will bond and become one with the board! And it can take a hit without cracking like a plug of normal epoxy might, used it to epoxy in SS wing screw inserts into a carbon fuselage on a foil, have hit sea life and bay bottom multiple times with no damage. Initially it is like soft butter, so you can shape it and it will stay in place.

That's ok you're entitled to your opinion, even if it is wrong
That Six10 stuff is probably ok for a temporary repair but long term I would fix it correctly. I can see a bit of exposed glass or PVC in that photo. If you're ever in doubt it's always best to put some glass on it.

Cheers, Hoops

Six10 for a temporary repair?, you just revealed how much you know about thickened adhesive epoxies!

Select to expand quote

Sandman1221 said..

Mr Hooper said..

Sandman1221 said..

Mr Hooper said..

Sandman1221 said..

Tardy said..

Mr Hooper said..

Tardy said..
International ,2 pack or 2 part mix ,EPI FILL is good stuff ,will handle a good knock too ..leave for 20-25 minutes then you can shape it will a wet finger ,
less sanding .or no sanding ,its made for boats so more water resistant than car bog ,

Not correct. Epifill is a 24 hour product.
The International range of products is great but total overkill for small board repairs.
Im trying to make it straight forward and easy for everyone!!!
Why complicate it ???

EPI FILLis not complicated

That is such minor damage, do not see the point of glassing it, did any glass layers get exposed on the edges? Just fill, shape, and sand. Never used Epifill, but sounds similar to Six10 thickened epoxy in that you can shape it before it sets, Six10 you can get so close to original shape using a blade may not even have to sand.

Glassing it will be a lot stronger. Just filling without sanding, the bog will likely fall out as soon as you touch it on something.

Disagree when it comes to Six10 thickened adhesive epoxy, it will bond and become one with the board! And it can take a hit without cracking like a plug of normal epoxy might, used it to epoxy in SS wing screw inserts into a carbon fuselage on a foil, have hit sea life and bay bottom multiple times with no damage. Initially it is like soft butter, so you can shape it and it will stay in place.

That's ok you're entitled to your opinion, even if it is wrong
That Six10 stuff is probably ok for a temporary repair but long term I would fix it correctly. I can see a bit of exposed glass or PVC in that photo. If you're ever in doubt it's always best to put some glass on it.

Cheers, Hoops

Six10 for a temporary repair?, you just revealed how much you know about thickened adhesive epoxies!

Professional builders and repairers generally don't use handyman products like pre thickened epoxies. They build and repair things correctly. They will restore the laminate so that it has it's original integrity. Just stuffing a pile of bog into something that hasn't been sanded or prepared correctly is a very poor repair method.

Cheers, Grumpy Hoops

Sandman- agree with Hoops, of course a filler is not as strong as a proper glassjob.

Ever notice how your board is not a bit of foam with Six10 smeared all over it? Why? because it does not have any of the mechanical properties of a fibre in resin matrix. So why would you fix the pointy bit on this board, that will get hit again, with just filler?
A small hole on the top or bottom surface near the ends (ie non structural repair and hard to hit it again) then yes go for it. Still better with proper fibreglassing, but not essential.
The very end? No way. Its going to get banged again.

The other point Hoops raised earlier is very true also - we have products we mix with resin to make a filler. If you're going to be doing repairs, why buy special fillers? The resin you use for glassing can be made into a filler just as strong. Or an easy sanding filler. I use q-cell for light and easy sanding, and add milled fibres to make it immensely stronger but still quite light for finbox installs etc.
You can use talc, wood dust, metal dusts and even the foam dust residue on the floor from sanding, to make effective thickened epoxy fillers. All without buying a special expensive filler or paying for the expensive flash self mixing systems attached to syringes.

There is one correct way to do this repair, and it is with filler and epoxy/glass. Its also cheaper than buying these niche products.

I'm a bit tired of people asking how to fix, the expert answers and then everyone chimes in with a different method or product that worked for them once. Well the expert is the guy who after thousands of boards has seen what sometimes fails. The one or two time repair guy hasn't. Its all well and good to say what is an acceptable method/product if you need quick and easy - but people here aren't..... they're saying "this is the way" and push back when the expert tells them it ain't so. Making a simple thing into a convoluted mess of a thread.

So sometimes superglue and a powder works. Ima recommend that for everything now.

Select to expand quote

Mr Hooper said..Professional builders and repairers generally don't use handyman products like pre thickened epoxies. They build and repair things correctly. They will restore the laminate so that it has it's original integrity. Just stuffing a pile of bog into something that hasn't been sanded or prepared correctly is a very poor repair method.

Cheers, Grumpy Hoops

Experts are so "last century" - now we have YouTube and endless half-baked opinions

Best quote - an expert is the person who has figured out all the ways to NOT do something. Very true here I think....