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Advice on buying progression gear

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Created by gregob > 9 months ago, 9 Apr 2013
gregob
NSW, 264 posts
9 Apr 2013 11:07AM
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Hi guys - just wanting some advice / guidance / reassurance on gear, pricing etc.

I am 42, a relative novice - got myself a large Bic long board with a dagger board 4 months ago; I used to use my brothers one years ago and decided to get into it myself.

I am competent on flat water tacking, jibing, and hanging on in heavier wind. I now want more of a challenge, something to learn water starts and carving on, and to go faster

I have done a lot of reading on forums and other sites and have a fair idea of what I think will be suitable but would like some advice as I realise I will be spending a fair bit of money.

I have two basic goals in mind -

1. - relatively modern bouyant board with light kit to teach kids and missus on
2. - smaller / faster though still with some litreage for me :)

I am 95KG - will using in flat / later in chop - not waves

I have earmarked something like a 161 lt JP funster for 1. and something in 121-131 Lt range like a Starboard Carve / Fantatic Falcon / Naish Grand Prix.


I am planning to get secondhand gear so some advice on what to get and how much to pay would be greatly appreciated.

Boombuster
QLD, 584 posts
9 Apr 2013 12:10PM
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Not sure where you sail but you could come down to Wello on a windy day have a look what other sailors are using.
The boards you are looking at are still very big boards 121-131 Lt range.
I am about the same weight as you but older my larges board is 132 its only for very light wind days.
I go down to a 83lt speed board & have 2 others in between all JP Slalom.
I am a higher level sailor but if you want to aim at hi speeds the smaller kits are faster so I would say come down meet me if your local & see what we are using.

gregob
NSW, 264 posts
9 Apr 2013 12:32PM
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Glynn Merrit said...
Not sure where you sail but you could come down to Wello on a windy day have a look what other sailors are using.
The boards you are looking at are still very big boards 121-131 Lt range.
I am about the same weight as you but older my larges board is 132 its only for very light wind days.
I go down to a 83lt speed board & have 2 others in between all JP Slalom.
I am a higher level sailor but if you want to aim at hi speeds the smaller kits are faster so I would say come down meet me if your local & see what we are using.




Hi Glynn - I'm in Coffs Harbour - where is "Wello" ? :)

So you reckon I could safely drop the smaller board down a bit or go for a 130 ish Lt board as the large board and get something around 100 Lt for the smaller board?

Would the 130 lt board be stable enough to teach Missus and kids on?

Mobydisc
NSW, 9029 posts
9 Apr 2013 12:39PM
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Hi,

I used to live in Coffs and windsurfed around there. Where are you windsurfing, on the harbour or Kalang-Bellinger rivers? There are not that many decent flat water spots around there, ie no lakes or big bays.

Are there many people windsurfing around Coffs nowdays? Anyway in regards to boards I've seen a couple of Starboard Gos of around 150 or 155 litres in volume. They look pretty good and would work as a planing board, getting out into the footstraps, plus a beginner could use it as you can fit a centrefin to it.

Mark _australia
WA, 23526 posts
9 Apr 2013 2:08PM
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I think greg is onto it.
160L for the family and 120-130L for him as his first step down.

First board you step down to from a beginner setup should not be less than about 30L over your bodyweight.

gregob
NSW, 264 posts
9 Apr 2013 6:56PM
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Mark _australia said...
I think greg is onto it.
160L for the family and 120-130L for him as his first step down.

First board you step down to from a beginner setup should not be less than about 30L over your bodyweight.



In the bellinger river just south and across the river from repton. The river is pretty much North / south there so any n/e or s/e lets me blast across and back.

I haven't seen many people around - only the one guy in the fours months I have been going there most weekends. He goes in mainly near mouth at Urunga though.

gregob
NSW, 264 posts
9 Apr 2013 6:59PM
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Mark _australia said...
I think greg is onto it.
160L for the family and 120-130L for him as his first step down.

First board you step down to from a beginner setup should not be less than about 30L over your bodyweight.



Thanks Mark - I am on look out for a complete setup with a couple of masts and sails and then I'll get the other board and what ever bits I need.

If I was confident with all the connections and mast sizes I would look out for individual bargains.

Boombuster
QLD, 584 posts
9 Apr 2013 7:27PM
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Mobydisc said...
Hi,

I used to live in Coffs and windsurfed around there. Where are you windsurfing, on the harbour or Kalang-Bellinger rivers? There are not that many decent flat water spots around there, ie no lakes or big bays.

Are there many people windsurfing around Coffs nowdays? Anyway in regards to boards I've seen a couple of Starboard Gos of around 150 or 155 litres in volume. They look pretty good and would work as a planing board, getting out into the footstraps, plus a beginner could use it as you can fit a centrefin to it.



Wellington Pt south Brisbane I was down Coffs last month I had a sail at Nambucca not very good spot though the run was short & it was very gusty pitty your down there you wouldn't see much gear on the beach & get to talk gear.
You could get in contact with the boys at Port Macquarie its closer to you they have a big team & are a gr8 lot of blokes they sail at Queens lake & the port.
www.facebook.com/midnorthcoast.marauders?fref=ts

jh2703
NSW, 1225 posts
9 Apr 2013 8:37PM
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Hello,

My story.......Started on a 180 and after 2 months progressed to a 145(too big) then onto a 120 within another few months where a spent the next year before moving onto small stuff, I weigh about the same as you. I always had 2 boards, One smaller then I was ready for. I would try on the smaller board for a while until frustration set in then go to the bigger board and sail the rest of the session...Everything felt so much easier when back on the big board, I think this really pushed my learning curve.

I think while your going through the motions (smashing gear) to learn and find a board that suits you and your conditions it would be best to stick to second hand stuff. If you are wanting new stuff then buy new sails (3) as they will see you through a few seasons and you'll most likely need 2 masts (RDM 400/430) and a quality (stiff)boom.

A board like this would be really good...

www.seabreeze.com.au/Classifieds/Windsurfing-Boards/~a2gt7/2008-JP-Australia-XCite-Ride-255-cm-130-litres.aspx?search=mkMWcPieNdk8jbFSWOIJc8kn83AT8RLw

My 2 cents.....Enjoy the sport

Mobydisc
NSW, 9029 posts
9 Apr 2013 9:15PM
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Glynn Merrit said...

Wellington Pt south Brisbane I was down Coffs last month I had a sail at Nambucca not very good spot though the run was short & it was very gusty pitty your down there you wouldn't see much gear on the beach & get to talk gear.
You could get in contact with the boys at Port Macquarie its closer to you they have a big team & are a gr8 lot of blokes they sail at Queens lake & the port.
www.facebook.com/midnorthcoast.marauders?fref=ts


It's sad how the Nambucca River estury has become so silted and basically useless for boating. When I was young I learned to windsurf there and spent a summer windsurfing around the river at Nambucca. Today there is sand everywhere. What used to be the main river channel is now silted up and is a dead end.

paddymac
WA, 941 posts
9 Apr 2013 10:52PM
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Hi gregob, the Carve is a good option, made for control and easy gybing. The other two, Falcon and Grand Prix, are slalom boards. Slalom boards are built for speed and usually require a more experienced sailor to get the best out of them.

Your best bet is to look for boards that are called freemove, freeride or progression. Ones in the wave, freerace or slalom category are best after you have the basics mastered.

Some options:
RRD Firemove
Tabou Guru
JP XCite Ride
Fanatic Geko
Exocet XCross
Starboard Go/Carve

gregob
NSW, 264 posts
10 Apr 2013 9:33AM
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jh2703 said...
Hello,

My story.......Started on a 180 and after 2 months progressed to a 145(too big) then onto a 120 within another few months where a spent the next year before moving onto small stuff, I weigh about the same as you. I always had 2 boards, One smaller then I was ready for. I would try on the smaller board for a while until frustration set in then go to the bigger board and sail the rest of the session...Everything felt so much easier when back on the big board, I think this really pushed my learning curve.

I think while your going through the motions (smashing gear) to learn and find a board that suits you and your conditions it would be best to stick to second hand stuff. If you are wanting new stuff then buy new sails (3) as they will see you through a few seasons and you'll most likely need 2 masts (RDM 400/430) and a quality (stiff)boom.

A board like this would be really good...

www.seabreeze.com.au/Classifieds/Windsurfing-Boards/~a2gt7/2008-JP-Australia-XCite-Ride-255-cm-130-litres.aspx?search=mkMWcPieNdk8jbFSWOIJc8kn83AT8RLw

My 2 cents.....Enjoy the sport



That's fantastic insight and useful info, particularly the sail / mast advice. That stuff is still somewhat confusing to me. I get that you need different length masts for different sails sizes but how to know which mast for which sails and also there are differences in mast widths? and does the mast extension fit the mast?

This is why I am leaning towards getting one complete second hand kit with those pieces and then adding the second board. Buying all that brand new is going to be too pricey.

I like the look of that X-citeride

gregob
NSW, 264 posts
10 Apr 2013 9:37AM
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paddymac said...
Hi gregob, the Carve is a good option, made for control and easy gybing. The other two, Falcon and Grand Prix, are slalom boards. Slalom boards are built for speed and usually require a more experienced sailor to get the best out of them.

Your best bet is to look for boards that are called freemove, freeride or progression. Ones in the wave, freerace or slalom category are best after you have the basics mastered.

Some options:
RRD Firemove
Tabou Guru
JP XCite Ride
Fanatic Geko
Exocet XCross
Starboard Go/Carve



Hey thanks paddy - see that's the kind of info that is really useful. Looking at the boards and not having ridden any short boards I have NO idea what the actual difference would be on the water from one model to the next.

deejay8204
QLD, 557 posts
10 Apr 2013 12:05PM
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You maybe able to get away with one mast and boom that will fit between a 4 and 6m2 sails. all you would need is a decent extension that can be adjusted to fit the length of both Mast and Sails.

I agree with everyone on here about getting a 130-150L wide board to teach the misses and about a 110-130L for yourself. Best bet would be look for a freeride as paddymac said above as this can be used on flat and choppy waters fairly easy.

Also If you can beach start and water start then you can probably look at getting into the slalom boards around the 120-130lt size for yourself.

If you haven't already, get yourself a good harness as well this will help a lot.

PhilSWR
NSW, 1104 posts
10 Apr 2013 1:52PM
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Hey Greg,

I'm just down the road from you, and there's a few (make that 4) of us out in Trial Bay when there's some wind. Pop down one day, you can go for a run on a few different boards and see what you like. Most of us are light-wieghts though (under 80 kg) so I think the biggest board used is around 120 litres.

I like the sounds of a 120 freeride board for you- something like Fanatic Hawk or Starboard Carve would be sweet for bay blasting and choppy river runs, and also fun on the lakes (Queens, Wallis) if you head futher south.

Here's a good link to some suitable boards

http://www.boardseekermag.com/windsurfing-equipment-tests/120-litre-freeride-boards-overview-2010-138.html

As you progress you can add a 100 litre freerace board for the windy days and gain higher top speeds.

Give me a yell if you head down this way.

Cheers,

Phil

K Dog
VIC, 1847 posts
10 Apr 2013 2:05PM
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PhilSWR said...
Hey Greg,

I'm just down the road from you, and there's a few (make that 4) of us out in Trial Bay when there's some wind. Pop down one day, you can go for a run on a few different boards and see what you like. Most of us are light-wieghts though (under 80 kg) so I think the biggest board used is around 120 litres.

I like the sounds of a 120 freeride board for you- something like Fanatic Hawk or Starboard Carve would be sweet for bay blasting and choppy river runs, and also fun on the lakes (Queens, Wallis) if you head futher south.

Here's a good link to some suitable boards

http://www.boardseekermag.com/windsurfing-equipment-tests/120-litre-freeride-boards-overview-2010-138.html

As you progress you can add a 100 litre freerace board for the windy days and gain higher top speeds.

Give me a yell if you head down this way.

Cheers,

Phil


I have the Exocet in that review.... going to sell it at some point, review is pretty bang on, awesome board for the early intermediate learning carve gybes etc....

"The Exocet has a very passive ride combined with great early planing and gybing talents for the less experienced. It's an easy board to sail, and its wide, rounded nose gives quite a different sensation to most of the other boards within this group. It definitely errs more towards smoother water and less advanced riders."

gregob
NSW, 264 posts
10 Apr 2013 2:55PM
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PhilSWR said...
Hey Greg,

I'm just down the road from you, and there's a few (make that 4) of us out in Trial Bay when there's some wind. Pop down one day, you can go for a run on a few different boards and see what you like. Most of us are light-wieghts though (under 80 kg) so I think the biggest board used is around 120 litres.

I like the sounds of a 120 freeride board for you- something like Fanatic Hawk or Starboard Carve would be sweet for bay blasting and choppy river runs, and also fun on the lakes (Queens, Wallis) if you head futher south.

Here's a good link to some suitable boards

http://www.boardseekermag.com/windsurfing-equipment-tests/120-litre-freeride-boards-overview-2010-138.html

As you progress you can add a 100 litre freerace board for the windy days and gain higher top speeds.

Give me a yell if you head down this way.

Cheers,

Phil



Heya Phil - I am hoping to get the new gear in the next couple of weeks; I would love to come down and check out SWR.

gregob
NSW, 264 posts
11 Apr 2013 11:32PM
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Okay - so I am getting close to finalising my gear choices.

The current leading "package" is 145 Lt Funster and a 122 Lt Carve.

I am getting a mast for each board and two sails - what sizes would people recommend?

jh2703
NSW, 1225 posts
12 Apr 2013 6:53AM
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Something around a 5.0 and a 6.0, These can be tuned to cover quite a wind range but it really depends on the conditions you get. You'll need a proper kids rig to teach the kids though as even a 5.0 is a big sail for them...A 3 sail quiver is quite the norm these days.

Mobydisc
NSW, 9029 posts
12 Apr 2013 7:21AM
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gregob said...
Okay - so I am getting close to finalising my gear choices.

The current leading "package" is 145 Lt Funster and a 122 Lt Carve.

I am getting a mast for each board and two sails - what sizes would people recommend?


Are those boards being sold together? They use different finboxes with the Funster using powerbox and the Carve Tuttlebox. If you get these two boards then you will need different fins for each of them.

gregob
NSW, 264 posts
12 Apr 2013 9:09AM
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Mobydisc said...
gregob said...
Okay - so I am getting close to finalising my gear choices.

The current leading "package" is 145 Lt Funster and a 122 Lt Carve.

I am getting a mast for each board and two sails - what sizes would people recommend?


Are those boards being sold together? They use different finboxes with the Funster using powerbox and the Carve Tuttlebox. If you get these two boards then you will need different fins for each of them.




Finboxes???!! OMG I have to worry about finboxes now?

I have seen conversations about Fins; I know they exist. I have filed that away as "too complicated to worry about, it doesn't affect me because I'm a newby"

Presumably you're going to tell me if they share a finbox type that I can swap fins and save on doubling up when / if I get new fins?

*Sigh* Is there an easy way to determine finbox types ? Like do brands share finboxes? Or do I have to check every board?

Fair dinkum, I work in I.T and all this compatibility stuff is giving me a headache!

gregob
NSW, 264 posts
12 Apr 2013 9:16AM
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jh2703 said...
Something around a 5.0 and a 6.0, These can be tuned to cover quite a wind range but it really depends on the conditions you get. You'll need a proper kids rig to teach the kids though as even a 5.0 is a big sail for them...A 3 sail quiver is quite the norm these days.



That is one of my conundrums. Do I get one kids rig and a normal rig OR two normal rigs?

4 Kids - two thirteens and two Sixteens; a boy and girl at each age (Brady Bunch). The 16 year old boy and i are using the old Bic but the 13 year old boy can't uphaul the 5mt sail on it. I have assumed the two girls wouldn't be able to - although the 16 year old might.

Any way - I would like to be able to use the two new boards at the same if the 16 year old and I go out - can't do that with the kids rig. I'm not sure how much use the kds rig is going to get or if the new gear will be light enough for the 13 year old and the girls to uphaul?

Problem is my budget isn't going to stretch to 3 rigs.

Mobydisc
NSW, 9029 posts
12 Apr 2013 9:18AM
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There are three main types of finbox systems today:

1. A box
2. Powerbox
3. Tuttlebox

A box finboxes are used mainly in wave boards and some freestyle boards. No boards you are considering should have an A box.

Powerbox finboxes are bolt through finboxes, with the bolt coming from the top of the board. There is one bolt and the fin box is tapered. Most recreational style boards ie freeride, have this style of finbox.

Tuttle finboxes are also bolt through finboxes. There are two bolts and the finbox sides are almost straight. Most more performance boards, ie slalom, have this style of finbox. The exception is Starboard who decided to use tuttle finboxes on all their bigger boards. The Carve you are considering was made by Starboard.

It will make life easier for you if your boards all use the same type of finbox.

gregob
NSW, 264 posts
12 Apr 2013 9:21AM
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Thanks Moby - I appreciate your knowledge and wisdom being shared. I will ask if we can swap a board to something that Shares finboxes and see what options I get.

jh2703
NSW, 1225 posts
12 Apr 2013 9:43AM
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Your kids are past the kids rig stage, You'll be looking for something in the 3.5 to 4.5 range....But this could also mean another mast. Check out your local shop as they may have something cheap they can sell you. It's also worths checking out the WA shops where these sails are more common, Most ship Australia wide.

Example...

http://geraldtonsurfandsail.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=29

As for fins, Power box are the most common these days and easy to get at a good price. Don't worry about fins for a while until your looking for performance gains or more control in high winds as they are normally well matched...Often a little on the big side to help early plainning.

rande
NSW, 17 posts
12 Apr 2013 10:02AM
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G'day gregob,

Not much to add to the advice you already have, but just some reassurance that you're on the right track.

I bought a Funster 145 a couple of years ago with a secondhand 5.8 wave sail to get me started and it has been a great combination to progress on. That board, although a bit heavy, will keep you entertained and learning for a looong time. Definitely allow another hundred bucks to get a decent 48cm fin once you start planing - transforms the board!

Next I added a 7.0 to get a bit more time on the water, then tracked down a secondhand Ezzy kids rig for my kids and wife and nephews and friends etc. The kids (and me) love the Funster as a SUP too.

More recently I added a 95L FSW and a 4.7. For my weight (70kg), when the 5.8 is really overpowered, the Funster is getting too big for the chop I like to sail in on Lake Macquarie.

I still enjoy getting the Funster out on 7.0 days and I intend to keep it for ever as it's so versatile. I recently convinced my brother-in-law to get a 145 Funster as well and he got a 6.3 to start off with and is having a great time.

If you have any specific questions feel free to PM me. Also, I could be ready to part with my initial 5.8 Boxer and mast if you need a rig to get you started, but sounds like you have everything lined up in a package which is a good way to do it.

gregob
NSW, 264 posts
12 Apr 2013 12:24PM
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jh2703 said...
Your kids are past the kids rig stage, You'll be looking for something in the 3.5 to 4.5 range....But this could also mean another mast. Check out your local shop as they may have something cheap they can sell you. It's also worths checking out the WA shops where these sails are more common, Most ship Australia wide.

Example...

http://geraldtonsurfandsail.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=29

As for fins, Power box are the most common these days and easy to get at a good price. Don't worry about fins for a while until your looking for performance gains or more control in high winds as they are normally well matched...Often a little on the big side to help early plainning.



Okay, that's good to know - ditch the kids rig. In relation to gear I have farmed my requirements out to a few different places hoping to catch a couple of ideal secondhand boards. Difficult to get those Size boards secondhand compared to the sub 100 Lt market though.

I have decided to buy from a shop rather buy bits and pieces privately because of my lack of knowledge and also freight / travel to pickup up issues.

gregob
NSW, 264 posts
10 May 2013 8:30PM
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So, got my new gear two weeks ago.

145 Lt 2012 JP Funster
122 Lt 2006 Starboard carve

2x masts - 400 and 430
3x sails - 4,3, 5.2, 6.3

Been out about 5 or 6 times :) on Funster and once on the carve. Very happy with both. The funster is the ideal intermediate board for learning and light winds and the I can actually uphaul on the carve which I didn't think I would be able to.

Got my first harness and lines this week so can't wait to try that out.

Thanks to all for the advice and tips.

sideskirt
328 posts
10 May 2013 7:14PM
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It's important to able to uphaul while learning how to waterstart, because it'll give you some safety and confidence.
I must say you took a good sail quiver which will serve you in most conditions.

gregob
NSW, 264 posts
10 May 2013 10:51PM
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Select to expand quote
sideskirt said..

It's important to able to uphaul while learning how to waterstart, because it'll give you some safety and confidence.
I must say you took a good sail quiver which will serve you in most conditions.



That's the reason I wasn't using the Carve because I was afraid of getting stranded

I was even pleasantly surprised at how good it was up wind. But yeah, I am looking forward to putting some hours in on those boards and learning to water start and gybe.

PhilSWR
NSW, 1104 posts
10 May 2013 11:37PM
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Good one Greg, nice lot of gear.

When ya want a change of scenary head south. Trial Bay's extensive flats are perfect for learning waterstarts (plus wave jumping, wave riding, gybes etc), and a good place for the family too.



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"Advice on buying progression gear" started by gregob