I'm looking at a larger sail for light winds. Something that will get me up and going pretty quickly on a 120-130 litre board. I weight about 80kg. What wind range would I be able to sail in with a 8.5m sail, cammed and/or non cammed. My largest sail is currently a 7.5m non cammed sail, which is great for 12-16 knots (thereabouts) of wind.

I used a 8.5 on a 111 liter slalom board and it got me planing very early. I weigh 90 kgs so at your weight and on a big floaty board you should be planing in around 10 knots I reckon. Im crap at estimating wind so could be earlier. The sails these days have huge wind ranges so you will be able to hold it down no worries.
Hope this helps.

on my 133 carve with an 8.5 10 knots of wind and i was away but i wiegh a tad over 100kgs but was better on the 150 go i think an 8.5 is just to big for anything smaller than around 150 litre

Cheers!

So around 10 knots and up....ok.

Monster, I also have the 133. According to the specs it can take a sail from 6m up to 9.5m I think. My 7.5m is my favourite sail on that board...everything seems well balanced and it's a really comfortable ride. I was hoping a 8.5m might get me out in less than 10 knots of wind but I'm not sure the extra size/weight is worth it for 2 knots less than what I can get planing with now.

Ka43, thanks. I'm also pretty bad at estimating the wind strength, I would normally over estimate and rig too small. Only recently purchased a Kestrel wind meter though, which has helped heaps.

I'm not sure it will plane all 'that' much earlier - definitively easier - What you will notice though is its ability to stay on the plane for longer and ride through the lulls - just keeps going.
As long as your board is wide enough (around 75) - 8.5sail and a bigger fin should work well.
My 8.5 (3Xcams) is used with 77 wide X 135l freeride, 51 fin - great combo for the light days, when I choose to sail them that is.

i agree with daveman you do need a bigger fin but as i said it just dosent feel right put the same sail on a go and it handles a lot better and i agree with you on 7.5 is about the max for the 133

I sense a cammed vs non-cammed debate

Non-cammed sails will allow you to plane earlier compared to cammed sails if the sail is pumped... This is because non-cammed sails are more elastic than the more rigid cammed sails. Cammed sails will be more stable in gusts, and will have more top-end speed.

It is also worth thinking about booms. Having a big boom set with less extension is better than having a smaller boom and using lots of extension. A big boom set with little extension is likely to be stiffer than a smaller boom set with loads of extension, and the bigger boom will allow you to trim more depth or body into your sail. This is where the light wind planing is really going to come from.

Hey KA43, is your 111 a hypervomit I used to be able to plane (and stay on the plane) on my old 105 hypervomit with a 7.0 in 12 knots... I am 90 kg, and have not owned a board that planed as early since...

Nah Pugwash, its a Falcon 111. 69 wide by 245. I use a 44cm fin and it gets me going pretty early but as stated its the "keep planing" aspect that is the go.
Ive never ridden a Hypervomit but see them around. They do plane bloody quick but certainly seem to have a topend.
I heard someone once refer to them as "a lot of Hyper, not much Sonic".
made me laugh.
Cheers

Hi all
have also been thinking of getting a larger sail for light days. My question is should i get an 8m sail that i could possibly use on my 117l board or would i be better off getting an 8.5 to 9m sail for my bigger 155l board. Im getting the vibe that 8.5 might be too big for the 117l....My biggest sail is currently 7.0m. would a 8.0m sail on the 117l give me much more of a sailing range??
Cheers

I have an 8.3 no cam sail on a RDM 490 mast used with my hypervomit 111L
I am about 93kg's and i need 12 knots to plane....11 knots and i'm dredging...
Maybe would go a bit better with a longer fin ...i only have a 33

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Corkers said...

Hi all
have also been thinking of getting a larger sail for light days. My question is should i get an 8m sail that i could possibly use on my 117l board or would i be better off getting an 8.5 to 9m sail for my bigger 155l board. Im getting the vibe that 8.5 might be too big for the 117l....My biggest sail is currently 7.0m. would a 8.0m sail on the 117l give me much more of a sailing range??
Cheers

I have a 117l cross - use a 7.5(2xcams) with it for the lighter days - I wouldn't go any bigger than that on it, seems to be a sweet combo. When the time comes to change your 7 then update to a 7.5 - i'd go no cams if I had to change the 7.5 (lighter and quicker onto a plane). But it may depend on your next sail size down from your current 7.

Seeing your going to need a new mast and boom you might as well go for 9m sail for your 155l board.

I run an 8.5 on my hypersonic 105 and I get planing in about 10-11kts (70kg). It's an ezzy infinity, so two cams. I've sailed it in about 25kts but it wasn't comfortable haha, up to 20kts is fine though.

HI ejmack 8.5m sails are great for the wind range your talking about i've got a 8.4m rs slalom this gets me out of the hole in about 11-12knots when on my 109l jp slalom version 3 if your interested i'm selling this sail check it out its listed in the premium listings in buy and sell. the rs slalom has masive bottom end power for a cammed sail but can be tuned for a wide wind range

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ejmack said...

I'm looking at a larger sail for light winds. Something that will get me up and going pretty quickly on a 120-130 litre board. I weight about 80kg. What wind range would I be able to sail in with a 8.5m sail, cammed and/or non cammed. My largest sail is currently a 7.5m non cammed sail, which is great for 12-16 knots (thereabouts) of wind.

My most used sail in the past three years has been a Loft 8.4. I use it both on a 125 l. freeride and 160 l. freerace. At 100 kg. I can hold onto it up to 22 to 23 m.p.h. and will now go to the 9.6 Loft 02 when the wind registers 18 or less. Both sails are not camber induced.

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Pugwash said...

I sense a cammed vs non-cammed debate

Non-cammed sails will allow you to plane earlier compared to cammed sails if the sail is pumped... This is because non-cammed sails are more elastic than the more rigid cammed sails. Cammed sails will be more stable in gusts, and will have more top-end speed.

Leaving pumping out, I have found that having cams has helped me getting on a plane and holding through lulls. Low end grunt, I believe, is what it is called.

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Pugwash said...
Non-cammed sails will allow you to plane earlier compared to cammed sails if the sail is pumped... This is because non-cammed sails are more elastic than the more rigid cammed sails. Cammed sails will be more stable in gusts, and will have more top-end speed.

I'm not so sure; it's also possible that the less rigid sail loses too much depth and therefore power when pumped hard. I also find that cambered sails can be pumped at a faster rate, as you don't have to wait for the sail to snap back into shape.

I'm not 100% sure I'm right, but certainly it's open to debate. Put it this way, none of the specialist light-air Raceboard sails are camless.

I think the biggest plus of a cammed sail is the low end (riding through lulls) and the top end control. Sure, I think you may be able to pump onto the plane earlier with a non cammed sail but in my opinion you'll stay on the plane much longer with cams. A big cammed sail with an adjustable outhaul is just a lull riding machine :D

Thanks all for your thoughts on the matter.... much appreciated.

More likely than not I'll stick with my current "brand" of sail as I am quite happy with my existing quiver. Just not decided on how large to go.

Having had no sailing experience (although I understand the theory) with cammed sails I'm not totally sure which route to go wit hregards to that. The sails I currently use have a lot of profile built into them, quite a bit of low end grunt I guess but I'm keen to try a sail with cams all the same. I'm fairly sure they'll have slightly better low end power again, to get going and to stay planing through lulls. Probably an 8.5m sail with cams is what I'll go for.

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ejmack said...

Cheers!

So around 10 knots and up....ok.

Monster, I also have the 133. According to the specs it can take a sail from 6m up to 9.5m I think. My 7.5m is my favourite sail on that board...everything seems well balanced and it's a really comfortable ride. I was hoping a 8.5m might get me out in less than 10 knots of wind but I'm not sure the extra size/weight is worth it for 2 knots less than what I can get planing with now.

Ka43, thanks. I'm also pretty bad at estimating the wind strength, I would normally over estimate and rig too small. Only recently purchased a Kestrel wind meter though, which has helped heaps.

The 10 - 12 knot wind range is probably easiest to feel with accuracy. Face into the wind with eyes shut and concentrate on the pressure on your face and sound of wind in your ears. For me sound kicks in at 10 knots and is a distinct roar at 12 knots. No sound/pressure less than 10 knots, above 12 knots you have to use other cues. Callibrate this a few times with your wind meter and you will be surprised how accurate you can become.
Probably the wrong motive to get an 8.5 sail for less than 10 knots. You will struggle and its frustrating and not much fun anyway. The joy of a big sail comes in the 12=15 knot range where it is easy to get going and the big sail is simply faster. Yesterday GeoffM and myself were out in a 10-14 knot wind both on Hypersonic 105s with identical weedfins. Geoff (75kg) on a 7.5 Koncept and me (87kg) on an 8.5 Koncept. Our planing ability was identical, both had to wait for puffs to get going and once going could plane through the same lulls. Only difference was my top speed 2 knots faster. I guess because we are "speedsailing?" we tend to sit and wait for the puffs and simply don't try to take off in the lulls. I have found that if I rig the Koncept for super light air (loose downhaul and outhaul) I can start earlier but if get hit by a puff momentarily struggle to balance the rig cf the tighter downhaul loose outhaul combination and speeds are higher with the tight downhaul.
Because the topend of the Koncepts in particular is huge, I have played around with speedsailing in 20 plus knots on an S-Type 104 with a 28cm weedfin for a GPS max of 34 knots, I no longer have a 7.5 in my quiver as I go straight to the 6.6.

The 8.5 metre sail is the new black!!!

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goodbrewster said...

Leaving pumping out..... Low end grunt, I believe, is what it is called.

Brucie, did you post this? cellar.org/showthread.php?t=16974

I bet you feel that way sometimes, considering what you've been through with your "new" Toyota.

Remember: The grass may not be greener with a used 4-runner.

Hey Elmo, tell me you're not at work doing this