as a heavyweight freeride windsurfer (and although irrelevant - also a longboarder)
which of these two(2) boards would you suggest as a best-suited first foil board ??


also, buddy uses his iS 117W with NO modification to the fin-box
thoughts on reinforcement ?
the SL1 is a slalom board and the SLW can handle 66 cm slalom fins

thoughts ??

Well I would suggest a foil board like the JP foil 135 if you can get one. If not, then out of those two I'd go the SLW for the width.

SLW and plan on a new box eventually.

JP has a 150 ? Foil board that looks like the 135 but ha enough float for alu foils and big guys.

Hi Joe
i have a JP SLW that is foil ready.
i learned to foil on the board. I recall that you have an earlier SLW. As you know it is super stable and easy to uphaul and tack. Add a foil and it is even more stable. when you are learning you will breach a lot while learning height control. The slw would land no problem as long as you try to keep it level or slightly nose up. Touch downs were fine too being built for light wind sailing it will plane early especially with the foil fitted. Being wide it makes going upwind easy. with any board that is not foil specific the Tuttle box is set back a bit. I have a slingshot foil. So the recommendations foil A B or C position for the wing is not quite right meaning the wing is back a bit slightly. However when you are learning that is a good thing as too much lift straight away can be disconcerting. A bit of back foot pressure will bring the board up and you can get used to controlling height and getting level. I now use my 76 cm wing in the C position when slingshot recommend the B position. I think this is due to the Tuttle box being back a bit and there being more length on the SLW compared to a slingshot board. the extra volume will not be a problem when learning and will probably help a lot. unless you are foiling in strong winds or using it in the surf or freestyle the volume will be your friend. This is especially the case on marginal days when you cannot quite get flying you can get home a lot easier.

thanks MrA

so, you are saying there is NO need to go to the 84 cm wing ??

and yes, my SLW is "older" i.e. 2012
go for fin box preparation or wait until it breaks - as Grantmac suggests ??

Joe I'm very much a beginning foiler so take this for what it's worth. I'm also a heavyweight over 100kg and for me the i84 is a much easier foil to use than the 76 or smaller racing wings. I haven't tried anything like the Horue XXLW yet. For that big lifty i84 wing I've found that a narrower board can actually be easier to pump up onto the foil than a wider one, but that once foiling the wider board provides more leverage for going upwind. I've been using an old 95cm early formula design (this one's a Protech but it's a lot like the Starboard 155 and other boards from around 2001-2003 before 100cm became standard) and I've reinforced the deck above the DT box which so far has worked well. I understand that any board which is designed for both fin and foil is going to be a compromise, but for next year, in the hopes that my skills improve enough to make it worthwhile, I have ordered a convertible design from Tillo:
www.tillo-international.com/?page_id=474
Mine will be built to 235 instead of 220cm length, for a little more stability when touching down and tacking, and it will have multiple footstrap positions, because racing foils and formula fins like a more outboard position, while free ride sails and big foils seem to like me more over the middle of the board. Worth a look if you're buying new - the cost isn't any different than any other high-end setup and Alex is very accessible and accommodating when talking over designs and modifications.

Hey Joe, I see you have a lot of solid advice already.

I would suggest going with the bigger board to start with. I reinforced the deck and bottom of my old formula board around the box with 3 layers of glass but it may have been over kill.

I think you will find you will need to run the mast track at the very back and you will find the foot straps in the wrong position. I am a bit of a contrarian but I would suggest taking the straps off and staying near the centreline of the board to begin with. I found it easier particularly when I started to try Jibing after a couple sessions.

Oh also go with a bigger floaty wing (+1000 cm sq) I know may folks that started with the smaller wings and switched to the bigger wings and have never gone back. Unless you are planning to race the bigger wings are the way to go.

I must say that my Custom Roberts Foiling board I got this fall is way more fun than the formula board and worth the cost, but I still ride without foot straps. Not good enough to use straps

Hope this Helps

Let me reinforce Hess' comments.

A big ole 160 liter formula board is a very good ride for learning to foil, but you have to either remove the footstraps or move them inboard. Also, yes, the finbox is often too far aft for easy balancing.

For my old formula boards I mounted the front footstraps inboard using the NSI stick-on bases. This solution is not the best, but OK. For the back feet I either removed the straps altogether or just use the center chicken strap. Since the finbox is far aft I use a PowerPlate to get the foil further forward. Or, alternatively, I had the finbox moved 3 inches forward and reinforced.

For freeride foiling on a formula board these mods work fine and will give you lots of excellent TOF.

For race foiling, a formula board's outboard straps and aft finbox are very good. Race foils have long masts which enable heeling the board to windward for upwind in the outboard straps. Also, they have long fuselages that place the front wing further forward, to compensate for the aft finbox.

In any case, for freeride foiling, a purpose-built foiling board is BY FAR the best solution. My North Pacific 135 is crazy perfect for balance, footstrap positions, and mast base position. This board makes foiling actually easy.

When I used an old Formula board with fin box way back I kept the front straps on but didn't use them conventionally. Instead I placed my front foot so the heel touched their back attachment point. It gave me a tactile feedback for foot position while also getting my feet inboard and back.

If I'd kept that board I would have installed strap plugs inwards far enough for my feet to sit flat on the deck with heels in contact.

If you find foiling is something you like then moving the fin box forward and straps in a bit would be a good investment unless a new board is in the budget. Bigger guys seem to live the RF91 and they aren't that costly, just not usable with a fin.

Hi Joe windsurf,
Glad you're thinking about foiling as I did. I just finished collecting all the gear needed to start foiling this spring.

Check out my post on the breeze, titled, "Last Chance for i76 or i84 wing". This might help! I did a lot of research before I purchased! I ended up going with the i84 wing for early lift, for light wind days, along with the 130L Slingshot Dialer windfoil board and I'm only 173 pounds.

Wyatt, Slingshot Brand Manager, states in a video he did that, "The i84 is like having training wheels". I'd go with the i84 from what I've read and learned, it's one of the most stable wings. A little off topic, because you're asking about boards, but getting the correct foil is also very important.

Good luck!

Since you (joe) are used to using bigger sails, and are not aiming to go foiling with <6.0 (I presume) I would advise against a low aspect foil like the slingshot infinity series. They are too responsive side to side to work well with bigger / heavier sails (The sail will bring the whole thing out of balance).

The slingshot infinity wings really shine when you're riding swells out at sea with a smaller sail, being slow enough to stay on the swell and offering enough lift to keep flying feathering the sail at such slow speeds. To me, from reading your blog, that doesnt seem to be what you want to do / what is your situation. You would need a foil that is fast enough to fly from gust to gust, and easily capable of handling a sail big enough to fly through lulls.

Also for more heavyweights a smaller (in surface) but higher aspect foil will fly early enough (the average PWA guy is also heavy and able to fly in 5 knots.., that doesnt really take superhuman strength and their biggest wings are 900-1000cm2 depending on the brand, all offering roughly the same low wind power). With your 9.8 (right?) you could fly in as little wind as is barely fun raceboarding. These kind of foils are also available in more reasonable priceranges, like 800? for the zulu or 1200? for the SB Race in Alu. With these more budget constructions for the mast (alu) you'll be loosing some high end control, but it won't cost you any fun in light winds. On top of that, they would fit better with the width of your boards (opting for the SLW).

In normal windsurfer terms: Dont buy an 80L quad (or 100L FSW) with an 8.5 2cam to ride on a flat water lake surrounded by trees in minimal winds, get yourself a 130-140L freeracer.

I have a lightwind rrd board, I used a powerplate to move the foil mast all the way forward , but it bent. A long mast and large wing must be exerting an incredible force. So I am thinking I would also need to fit a tube through the hull and deck reinforcement to insert a bolt in the unsupported part of the power plate....

Hi Joe, I have foiled on my 2012 SLW and I really liked it for foiling. I only stopped after becoming worried about the finbox. I found the SLW felt safer on touchdowns due to it's extra length compared to foil boards. The extra length also requires a bit more back foot pressure compared to shorter boards which might be helpful when learning. It depends on the foil you are using but I found the SLW would gently touch down if you eased off the back foot. There are limits to this effect off course and if you take off on a tight reach and load up the back foot it will put you on the moon but any foil will do that if not sailed correctly.

When trying to get planing I found that the SLW would lift it's nose a lot if you try to get planing without pulling away a bit. A formula style planing technique works well i.e. foot in front strap pull away and a few Guy Cribb style harness pumps. When I got down to smaller sails I could feel the front of the SLW catching a bit of wind and wandering a bit but this was with my 7.0 and 6.2 overdrives in 15 to 20 knots so you don't need to worry about that for a while.

If you are going to foil on the SLW I would do the finbox sooner rather than later. The good thing is the finbox in the SLW goes all the way through the board with only a thin deck skin at the top. This makes it easier if you choose to reinforce rather than replace as you can fill the void above the foil with some structural bog.

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joe windsurf said..
thanks MrA

so, you are saying there is NO need to go to the 84 cm wing ??

and yes, my SLW is "older" i.e. 2012
go for fin box preparation or wait until it breaks - as Grantmac suggests ??

Hi Joe
sorry for the confusion by mentioning the wing size. I was just illustrating how the position of the Tuttle box affects foil mast position on the 84 infinity I use my custom D position where I had extra holes drilled in the fuse
you will not need that when learning I started with the 76 infinity and then got an 84 infinity. the 84 made it easier to learn control so that when I went back to the 76 I had more success. By all accounts the 99 infinity is even easier. The 84 lifts marginally earlier has a slower stall speed and reacts a bit slower so when you are learning you can recover from a mistake. The 84 is pretty slow but that is great for learning. I still use both wings. 84 on light days and 76 on easier days. so start with the 84. You will learn a lot more quickly in my view.

Select to expand quote

MrA said..

joe windsurf said..
thanks MrA

so, you are saying there is NO need to go to the 84 cm wing ??

and yes, my SLW is "older" i.e. 2012
go for fin box preparation or wait until it breaks - as Grantmac suggests ??

Hi Joe
sorry for the confusion by mentioning the wing size. I was just illustrating how the position of the Tuttle box affects foil mast position on the 84 infinity I use my custom D position where I had extra holes drilled in the fuse
you will not need that when learning I started with the 76 infinity and then got an 84 infinity. the 84 made it easier to learn control so that when I went back to the 76 I had more success. By all accounts the 99 infinity is even easier. The 84 lifts marginally earlier has a slower stall speed and reacts a bit slower so when you are learning you can recover from a mistake. The 84 is pretty slow but that is great for learning. I still use both wings. 84 on light days and 76 on easier days. so start with the 84. You will learn a lot more quickly in my view.

Hi Joe,
I am also heavy weight and got Levitator 160 lt with i84 using long mast. I agree that i99 definitely was easier for me as a beginner, I feel that this setting is very stable with extremely rare breeching. I would suggest getting this set-up since the Levitator has a track that you could move the foil in desire position for fine tuning. JP board does not have this tracking; however, many people has good youtube videos using JP board with infinity foil such as this:

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SA_AL said..

MrA said..

joe windsurf said..
thanks MrA

so, you are saying there is NO need to go to the 84 cm wing ??

and yes, my SLW is "older" i.e. 2012
go for fin box preparation or wait until it breaks - as Grantmac suggests ??

Hi Joe
sorry for the confusion by mentioning the wing size. I was just illustrating how the position of the Tuttle box affects foil mast position on the 84 infinity I use my custom D position where I had extra holes drilled in the fuse
you will not need that when learning I started with the 76 infinity and then got an 84 infinity. the 84 made it easier to learn control so that when I went back to the 76 I had more success. By all accounts the 99 infinity is even easier. The 84 lifts marginally earlier has a slower stall speed and reacts a bit slower so when you are learning you can recover from a mistake. The 84 is pretty slow but that is great for learning. I still use both wings. 84 on light days and 76 on easier days. so start with the 84. You will learn a lot more quickly in my view.

Hi Joe,
I am also heavy weight and got Levitator 160 lt with i84 using long mast. I agree that i99 definitely was easier for me as a beginner, I feel that this setting is very stable with extremely rare breeching. I would suggest getting this set-up since the Levitator has a track that you could move the foil in desire position for fine tuning. JP board does not have this tracking; however, many people has good youtube videos using JP board with infinity foil such as this:

That wind was super light that day, had trouble popping the cams in the gybes!

JP135 is a very good all round board for the heavier rider, I find the i84 pairs very nice with the 48 rear wing (in C) and the i99 works very well with the 42 rear wing in B.

Lots of heavier Seattle sailors (read: light wind) have been pairing the I84 with formula boards and 8-10m sails very successfully. Only the lighter guys are finding the high aspect race foils to work better.

LP would be an option since they have a relatively high aspect SUP wing which is actually larger than the I84 and can be fitted to their windfoil. Their aren't much more money than Slingshot but you get a full carbon set-up.

Hey Grant, the LP website says, "Choose from a wide range of front wings to customize your RS Windfoil - 700, 800, 940, 1000, 1300 and 1600 square centimeters ( cm? )."

Does the RS front wing attach onto a regular LP FRS fuselage? The picture makes it look different.

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I asked Peter Lederer via email. His answer:


Yes, I got an adapter for the FRS system and you can pick from - 800 low aspect, 800 high aspect, 940, 1000 and 1300cm?.

Hey Joe!
I would go with either board.
Foil with it and then reinforce the box when it weakens.
Other advice:
- take off all straps (much easier, don't really need them, the foil placement on your non foil boards won't be as critical)
- get a slingshot infinity 99 setup (I have a 84 but if I was heavier I would go to a 99)

You will love it and probably won't look back!
Joe

Select to expand quote

segler said..

I asked Peter Lederer via email. His answer:


Yes, I got an adapter for the FRS system and you can pick from - 800 low aspect, 800 high aspect, 940, 1000 and 1300cm?.

I think I misread their website. Too bad since I think it would be a good option.

JP 155, and I'm not just saying that because I'm selling one on here. Its been a great board for me. Go for volume, go for width. You want to be foiling as early as possible and the extra volume is not going to hurt you once you are up, even in windier conditions. You also want a board that touches down well. Makes a huge difference for confidence when learning. I've had heaps of fun on my JP 155 from 10kts to 30kts. I started with a Naish GP 135. Dont waste time with slalom boards. Just get a foil board. FYI I've also had the 135, I prefer the 155. two different boards. Just upgraded to the 175 for better race performance.

Good Luck Joe! have fun

Ive had great fun learning foiling on my jp2015 superlightwind with a neil pryde glyde large and 75cm mast i flew the first time out and surprised myself. The slw is near perfect i think . I took the straps off and with booties dont need straps. Im using a 5.5 sail. The only time i crashed in a straight line was the second time i touched down and let go. Now i dont let go and ive had some scary touch downs too nose down but the slw has never let me down and just pops out and keeps sailing. Its a bit scary hanging on for yhe touch down but dont let go. Going too high with the 75cm mast is ok. Sheet out and it will come down even if you stay nose up. This combo is the best thing since sliced bread. Only four times out now and i can fly as long as i want. Ive tried foiling gybes and not got any yet but skimming gybes ok as long as you keep weight forward. Carbon mast for sail and carbon boom plus slw width and float make uphauling easy.