hello,

just like to share with you our windsurf hydrofoil which is coming soon!

should you have any question do not hesitate to post here!

kitefoiling has been growing a lot last few years, hopefully windfoiling will also come up very soon!

what's new about it ??

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seanhogan said..
what's new about it ??

The name?

Can you do little ones for US Box and Slotbox?

It looks like the board is modified with a new box installed?

I think there is an opening for a windfoil board for light wind. That could either be an existing board with a foil designed to fit a deep Tuttle box - like the Horue XLW - or a new design to be first a light wind windfoil board and secondly to be sailable as a windsurf board in higher wind.

There is still the possibility in my head that windfoil boards should be sailed tilted upwind like kitefoil boards. It seems to me that that would be more efficient. I watch the water streaming up the leeward side of the mast and off it's trailing edge on windfoil boards and think 'That can't be right'. The problem then is how to get it planing if it is not a wide board.

Even though windfoiling has been around a long time



it still is in a big development phase. Its obvious to me that it will work and it is a matter of how well and how practical it will be.
If it can replace a 1 metre wide board, 70cm fin, 12 metre sail, 520 Mast and 3 metre boom, by a hydrofoil on a medium sized slalom board/sail, then it makes a lot of sense.

My first question is - can you windfoil by heeling the foil over?

Second depends on the answer to the first - what should a modern windfoil board consist of? Is it so different that you will need to have a windfoil board, or can it be both a windfoil board and a windsurf board?

the manta foil has been around since early this year but for kitesurfing.

we are now developing new fuselage and wings for windsurfing.

this is what is new. not a new design, rather a newcomer into windfoils but with 6 years experience in kitefoils design and manufacturing.



to me the board design is where there is a lot to do...
the heeling is the main factor to manage.

I can't answer fully the question at this moment but from our tests, the rider needs to push with the foots on the rails in order to keep the board flat or tilted upwind.
this is due to the mast pressure.

while still this is manageable and today most available foils are running on similar concept, still there is a lot of development to be done to provide an easier access and smoother ride.

as a matter of fact it is easier to foil with a kitefoil than a windfoil.

having said that, our riders was up for several meters already after the 2nd session while he never touched a foil before...

What about the finbox? Is it modified?

thanks for the details, indeed there seem to be more factors to take into account with windsurfing.

Like skill

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FacPrime said..
What about the finbox? Is it modified?

we are using our own fin box which is basically a multi holes box with various positions.

^^^ that's great but you do realise that

(1) windsurfers have done foils before - long ago

(2) we will not get a board, (bearing in mind ours are $3000), rip out the box and replace it with yours, just to give foiling a try..

?

If you have to rip the finbox out and start again, why not move the box further up the board?

The tuttle box is the type of box most people including myself use for the foils. It comes directly from windsurfing. It does not work that well for us as it has that slope at the back but hey its what is common now. Because of this it means you can simply put a foil in your box but for all modern kite foils it will mean the centre of effort is way to far back. This is because modern foils have the front wing close to the mast. This limits the torque the wing puts on the mast. The best way to get your windsurfer on the foil is to install a box further fwd or Tracks like you have for your mast. Some foils have a plate attachment.
I have carbon tuttle boxes that I make into a light rectangular Brick that you can insert with out to much fuss.
When you have the strut in the right place it will simply be a matter of having big enough wings for your windsurfer. Bigger wingspan with more aggressive foil sections and the same increase in dimensions for the the back wing.

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benmj said..
The tuttle box is the type of box most people including myself use for the foils. It comes directly from windsurfing. It does not work that well for us as it has that slope at the back but hey its what is common now. Because of this it means you can simply put a foil in your box but for all modern kite foils it will mean the centre of effort is way to far back. This is because modern foils have the front wing close to the mast. This limits the torque the wing puts on the mast. The best way to get your windsurfer on the foil is to install a box further fwd or Tracks like you have for your mast. Some foils have a plate attachment.
I have carbon tuttle boxes that I make into a light rectangular Brick that you can insert with out to much fuss.
When you have the strut in the right place it will simply be a matter of having big enough wings for your windsurfer. Bigger wingspan with more aggressive foil sections and the same increase in dimensions for the the back wing.

I agree with you that it seems windsurfers should have the foil box further forward. I might consider putting a deep tuttle into my biggest board for a foil - if that meant I could extend my light wind range.
Right now, the only foil made specifically for a windsurfer from scratch is the AHD. Its big and expensive and it has its own type of foil box. It perhaps has the lowest wind threshold.
Another issue for me is why the windfoils are ridden flat instead of tilted over like the kite foils. The back of my brain is telling me that they should be like the kite foils. Is it because of the very wide boards that windfoils are fitted to? The AHD is 67.5 cm wide and is the narrowest, but still lifts onto the foil in light wind.

So at the moment, I'm not seeing a foil that is designed for light wind windsurfing and has been tested to find out if it can be used tilted and also still lift at very low wind.
My biggest board is a 235 by 63.5cm wide Fanatic Skate 100 and biggest sail is a 6.5m Gaastra Matrix. I'd like something the size of a freestyle board to work as a 'donor' board for light wind foiling.
There may be potential to plug in a foil and have good light wind sailing in 8 knots of wind, rather than have a bigger board, fin, mast, boom and sail. In that case paying to have a box installed and buying a foil makes good sense - if you were sure exactly how to do it and it worked.

At the moment, the AHD AFS-1 and Sealion Wings is where windfoiling has reached.

You can see here that he does the turns with the foil banked over, so I don't understand why the foil isn't used banked over to go straight? Maybe the foil front wing needs to be bigger because there would be less lift from the mast?

Why would you want to be tilted when sailing in a straight line? Just because the Kitefoils need to do it?

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chinookRandD said..
Why would you want to be tilted when sailing in a straight line? Just because the Kitefoils need to do it?

If you keep the upright (they call it a mast) vertical, it is working like a fin, but is piercing the surface, so the low pressure side has an easy path for air to go down.

I am just asking if the current windfoil method is the most efficient. My guess is it isn't but there may be a reason why no-one is riding foils like the kitefoilers.

I guess it has more to do with the way the forces are applied. power is transmitted through the legs in kite while in windsurfing your mast is pushing the board. you edge a bit with the legs to compensate the mast trying to roll the board downwind.

The kite foils do it simply to use the lift from the foil to push you up wind . This has many benefits, increases apparent wind speed and angle. Makes it super easy to control as you are more directly opposing the pull of the sail.
The best thing to look at from a windsurfer point of view is the Moth sailing boat. The are more similar to a windsurfer than a kite foil.
Both the kite and the Moth sail closer to upright down wind

Speaking of new foils, did anyone have a look at this in the seabreeze news page

www.seabreeze.com.au/News/Sailing/Leeboards-are-cool-again-Gitana-Mono-60_9943450.aspx

Needs a bit more rocker in the nose.

Kite foils lean into the wind, wind foils are vertical and that foil is off the wind. What's next? Little wind foils sticking out the side to impale you if you fall off?

Looks wet and fast and wet!

The Windfoil so far looks to have not come any further in development or ease of use than this hydrofoil windsurfer video posted online 9 years ago in 2006. I think it also has a mast/fuselarge and 2wing design.

These both look cool but very difficult to manage so far.

The end of the video also shows it speed relative to a regular windsurfer (on the water) when one them sails past the foiler!

Or the Exocet way

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Stuthepirate said...
Speaking of new foils, did anyone have a look at this in the seabreeze news page

www.seabreeze.com.au/News/Sailing/Leeboards-are-cool-again-Gitana-Mono-60_9943450.aspx

That's insane. Would take a lot of skill and kahunas to match.

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Or the Exocet way

does not seems very maneuverable!

our prototype test shows that after about 2 sessions our test rider was able to learn foiling from scratch and after 10 sessions he was confortable enough to keep flying all the time without foiling and with a quite stable attitude