Hi all,
I know here are the craziest foil people inside so I hope there are some experiences.

We just discussed how durable are the foils and connections at the construction for jumping.Jumping I mean first on a lake not in waves. But never the less with a foil there seem to be complete new possibilities also without a wave. What are your experiences and or recommendations from your side regarding what foil and Wing to use and not to use and why.

Would be great to read what you think, what are your experiences with which foils and where are the critical points out of your point of view.
I guess some weak point at ss is the mount from mast to fuse. At Moses the mount of the frontwing on the fuse....the impact on all of the parts is really huge I think. Especially when 80 and 90 kg guys start jumping high.

Thanks for your choices !!

Keep Flying & Hang Loose

Interesting topic!
I would like to add one more question to thisWhat is the most durable light wind foil for jumping?
As I read from a few post, the SS 76 is not recommended for jumping... in contrast everybody praises the 68 as a jumping machine...
If the 76 strains the foil wouldn't the 68 strain the foil as well (maybe not that fast but over the months / years) ?
Or why is the 76 not recommended for jumping?
Does anybody have personal experiences with breaking 76 SS foils from jumping? If so it would be very interesting after what amount of time / which intensity the foil broke.

In contrast the Moses foil 79 carbon vento freeride seems to be fine for jumping (according to the famous "moses twist" clip by Balz M?ller)As Michael said, the Moses foil seems to be a tougher construction, because of the mast cutout in the fuselage.

Horue

source: www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1419625431561229&set=a.138879126302539&type=3&theater

The newer versions have been increasingly beefed up to handle more loads than the original Vini.

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right question .Had the same so I wrote to SS,this is the answer:

The only risk is to bend the fuselage. You will make a lot of jumps before it bends.
Since Balz is getting free foils. He is not worried about it.

And you might bend the mast if you land wrong. Balz had a carbon mast.
So I started jumping with i76 and Time code 68 without problem/ride Wizard 105 and FS115 ,sail 4,8qm,70kg/
When wind gets stronger change to normal freestyle board

The new Horue line looks promising
All in one peace carbon
Thanks! I will have a chat with them

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Paducah said..
Horue

source: www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1419625431561229&set=a.138879126302539&type=3&theater

The newer versions have been increasingly beefed up to handle more loads than the original Vini.

That is good cause I destroyed my vini long before I could jump. I am a fan of the one piece hollow carbon if strong enough. Just need some more user friendly wing designs for this platform.

The skillful riders can jump anything and land any foil well (or know how to enter the water surface).

Like in windsurfing some riders can jump on their bigger slalom board and can land it really soft.

If you are a beginner (for jumping on a windsurfer) , then the more chance of breaking it (on a bigger slalom board) There is just a lot of surface / volume to deal with.
And if you land it flat with no forward speed etc, then it's a lot of impact, compared to a smaller wave board and much more chance of breaking it.

The same is going for the foils. The SS Infinity 76cm, you can defiantly jump, but there is a lot of surface to deal with entering the surface again on the water. So this potential put a lot of strain on the foil, if you don't master the skills fully.

Guys like Balz can for sure make it work. But he is also 'light years'ahead on the jumping side of things, compared to most of us :)

The smaller front wings is the go for jumping and for SS the new Infinity 65cm, is the most recommended one. Some of the other model like Timecode, Warp speed etc in the same size will also be great.

I didn't look up the exact numbers, but you could say that with the 65cm 'being nearly half the size' of the 76cm, for the surface area, - would then potentially be half the impact for jumping,,

So i gues possible is jumping with the most wings...the big questions which wings and constructions are strong enough for non Pro's to jump with them with the Windsurfer.....

I think the most foilers want to jump after they pushed up their foiling skills. Especially as foiling is bringing back the fun to the home spot also when it's only a lake. When I look to dozen videos jumping is possible also at complete flat water as the wing is supporting that.
But as you compared with slalom boards....quite nobody will go with them in waves and jump higher and higher and expects they won't get damaged.

I think the same it's also at foiling. But which setup's are strong enough to jump without fearing to damage the foil.

If you are running a foil that breaks bolts in normal conditions and is suggested in many forums that changing the bolts regularly is a must then I wouldn't recommend using that foil for jumping as it could get expensive

If you have been reading on forums how can I remove the wobble from my foil, it's going to be wobbling a lot more after a jumping session ??

I think the high end full carbon units will be the most durable

The board taking the force well that another certain dilemma, jumping landing at 45% plus side loading the wings and mast must be like putting a crow bar in the box and yankin on it, failure is only a matter of time or in this case a matter of X jumps

From my limited experience of small jumps with a foil it feels like the forces aren't that high. Often when you drop back the foil just pushes into the water without flow either side of the wing. This seems to cushion your landing a bit before the board hits the water. The upward force feels much less than when you're in level flight.

Landing flat with forward speed seems to be the best as the foil is generating lift as you come down. The board then lightly touches the surface and bounces up again.

I think the forces on the wing are higher when you're travelling fast and go through some turbulent water like the prop wash from a boat.

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simonp123 said..
From my limited experience of small jumps with a foil it feels like the forces aren't that high. Often when you drop back the foil just pushes into the water without flow either side of the wing. This seems to cushion your landing a bit before the board hits the water. The upward force feels much less than when you're in level flight.

Landing flat with forward speed seems to be the best as the foil is generating lift as you come down. The board then lightly touches the surface and bounces up again.

I think the forces on the wing are higher when you're travelling fast and go through some turbulent water like the prop wash from a boat.

Yeah you might be right Simon , little jumps with smooth landing, I was thinking more like Balz Muller style freestyle jumping.

This is why I'm not really jumping yet. My high wind board is a dual purpose (by intention) slalom board. It's held up fine and was built with a foil ready box. However, I don't want to risk destroying it by dropping down on it. I'm looking for an older board that I can consider disposable. I think my foils, OTOH, will be sufficient because they are all carbon, I'm lighter and would be using 800ish wings. The Moses Balz model uses the 720 wing which is around 750cm2. The i76, of course, is twice that.

I agree with Jesper.

I bent my 60 cm slingshot mast using the I76. I was landing quite flat and the surface area is quite considerable on impact. I haven't jumped with the 90 mast yet but when I do I will look to land tail first.

I often go as high as 4m up in the air on dead flat water, that will break most kit. I haven't yet found a foil which won't show signs of wear over time, but I've found a few which did not break my first session out. The F-One Levo900 is fit for jumping, allthough we do not recommend regular customers to push too much because after a year or so it will start to show signs of strain. I have not yet managed to break this one though.

I have over the last 3 years broke about every part there is to break on a foil. Often, wings break almost immidiately if they're not strong enough and too big. If the wing doesnt break, the carbon fuselage will. Alu fuselages can also wear out over time, I've had really beefed up prototypes which also started to crack after months of abuse. For the newest foil we've opted for a one-piece fuselage/front wing, without any screws, to maximise strength. Upto now it holds up really well.

Alu masts bend, but thats more to do with jumping on a board which is not fit for it. If you want to keep your kit in one piece, you need a board with a single back footstrap. The forces exerted on the mast are way smaller when jumping with a centered backfoot compared to an offset backfoot. We also for 2020 release a mast for windfoiling with a bigger chord, which increases strength. Except breaking a (standard) brass screwinsert I have not managed to bend this mast.

Another thing to watch out for is screws unscrewing on their own. Make sure you thighten them every session you jumped!

If I go really really high I often aim to rotate backwards (into a backloop) to protect the foil a little, landing flat on the wing from 4m up will very greatly increase the speed at which the wing deteriorates.

Thanks for your experience !!
What part we broke at our lake where the M8 Titan screws ! There where the fuse is attached to the mast. Some also bend the screws. Seem this came from little Jumps with the I76. But I also the right torquet seems to be a very important factor.I now also got the I65. As just stated this has quite the half of the surface of the I76, Basing on my current information there is no fear with jumping. Also when everything can break at jumping.

What wings and which parts you have broken at your jumpings ??? This would be very interesting. Would be great to get more details what was not breaking at jumping and what breaks. Components like Material, Mast length, surfaces of front and back wings are essential.

I guess it's better to fix the slingshot srews better with torque based one. With the Phantasm will come up hopefully everything will get better. But let's see wenn there will be more detailled information.

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simonp123 said..
From my limited experience of small jumps with a foil it feels like the forces aren't that high. Often when you drop back the foil just pushes into the water without flow either side of the wing. This seems to cushion your landing a bit before the board hits the water. The upward force feels much less than when you're in level flight.

Landing flat with forward speed seems to be the best as the foil is generating lift as you come down. The board then lightly touches the surface and bounces up again.

I think the forces on the wing are higher when you're travelling fast and go through some turbulent water like the prop wash from a boat.

Out of our pint of experience just at the start of the jump there is a high load on lot of materials. Wrong landings from high jumps are the surely the worst case. But with the jumping on flat water you bring the wing in a down force and push it radically up in the other direction. Depending on the surface ov the wing there is a high load on it. Especially as the load is partly coming with a different load on each wing side. So there are lot of lateral forces.
Surely the same is popping up at bad landings flat on the front wing....but if you try more to get the backloop done the landings shoudn't be teh big impact I gues...