Hi,
I've finally decided it's time to get into wind foiling. I'll have myself a 146ltr foil board later this week and want to use my existing sails, probably my 7.8 and 8.6mtr sails. I'm 125 kg and know what to rig for standard windsurfing depending on wind. However for foil size to buy, I have zero idea how that works. I'm getting the impression that the front wing of the foil needs to be larger for my size? However what are some size recommendations for big guys?

Regards
Mike

We can certainly ride bigger front wings than smaller folk, and probably starting out you'll need to, or you'll have too much trouble getting up on the foil. Once you're a little more skilled you'll most likely be riding foils similar in size to those of lighter sailors, but perhaps with a somewhat bigger sail.

A lot depends on what brands you have access to. If you're going with Slingshot, I'd go straight to the i99. It's a super lifty wing, doesn't need to be going very fast to start lifting, and it definitely has a lowish top speed, so you won't scare yourself half to death once you're flying. If you start with that wing, you could just add the i76 for stronger winds or once you're more skilled, and keep the i99 for really light-wind days. That mast isn't the strongest but SS has a really reliable warranty policy

If you go with another brand, you'll be getting a more efficient foil, since the Slingshot is a pretty old design. I'd aim for something at least 1800 cm sq, even if the manufacturer thinks of that wing as primarily a wing foil design, and plan to add something between 900-1300 down the road. Don't forget that we put more load on everything, including the foilmast, so sturdiness there is important, especially since starting with a mast shorter than 80cm makes everything harder. Don't be afraid of masts 90-100cm, as long as they're stout enough.

I'm a little lighter at 100kg, started with the i84 (should have started with i99) and now ride Taaroa 2000 in super-light wind and 1250 the rest of the time. If I were starting out with nothing I think I'd go with SABFoil for their stiffness and build quality and range of sizes.

If your gonna use big sails like that you probably want a more race oriented foil eg IQ foil. But you need to decide what style of foil riding you are interested in? Free ride or free race. If interested in freeride then you might need to come down in sail size

If you have the cash, go with an all carbon foil, especially if your are in salt water. Companies based in France do all carbon. AFS has an 85 cm mast with largest wing at 1080 cm2, and that may be too small for you. Aeromod in France also, makes a bigger wing. Not many companies doing all carbon, but is pretty much maintenance free. Look around here at all the issues with SlingShot and other big name foils with aluminum masts and fuselages, wings breaking off, masts breaking off of fuselages, you being a heavy weight will get more of those problems than the light weights. And you are going to flex the aluminum masts a lot. Zfin foils are all carbon race foils, Lokefoil has some all carbon foils, and some with aluminum fuselages, but race foils.

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hobie14t said..
Hi,
I've finally decided it's time to get into wind foiling. I'll have myself a 146ltr foil board later this week and want to use my existing sails, probably my 7.8 and 8.6mtr sails. I'm 125 kg and know what to rig for standard windsurfing depending on wind. However for foil size to buy, I have zero idea how that works. I'm getting the impression that the front wing of the foil needs to be larger for my size? However what are some size recommendations for big guys?

Regards
Mike

Is the board that you are going to use a tuttle box or does it also have the option of the twin tracks?

For your weight you will need something around 2400 cm2 (surface area).

Not all carbon masts are stiffer than aluminum as it depends on the manufacture.

At your size I'd go Axis or SAB.

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Awalkspoiled said..
We can certainly ride bigger front wings than smaller folk, and probably starting out you'll need to, or you'll have too much trouble getting up on the foil. Once you're a little more skilled you'll most likely be riding foils similar in size to those of lighter sailors, but perhaps with a somewhat bigger sail.

A lot depends on what brands you have access to. If you're going with Slingshot, I'd go straight to the i99. It's a super lifty wing, doesn't need to be going very fast to start lifting, and it definitely has a lowish top speed, so you won't scare yourself half to death once you're flying. If you start with that wing, you could just add the i76 for stronger winds or once you're more skilled, and keep the i99 for really light-wind days. That mast isn't the strongest but SS has a really reliable warranty policy

If you go with another brand, you'll be getting a more efficient foil, since the Slingshot is a pretty old design. I'd aim for something at least 1800 cm sq, even if the manufacturer thinks of that wing as primarily a wing foil design, and plan to add something between 900-1300 down the road. Don't forget that we put more load on everything, including the foilmast, so sturdiness there is important, especially since starting with a mast shorter than 80cm makes everything harder. Don't be afraid of masts 90-100cm, as long as they're stout enough.

I'm a little lighter at 100kg, started with the i84 (should have started with i99) and now ride Taaroa 2000 in super-light wind and 1250 the rest of the time. If I were starting out with nothing I think I'd go with SABFoil for their stiffness and build quality and range of sizes.

Thanks Awalkspoiled, I was looking at the 1800cm2 Severne Redwing. Seems this is about where I need to be for the front wing. Mast height tips will appreciated, again, something I had no understanding of for foiling.

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CoreAS said..

hobie14t said..
Hi,
I've finally decided it's time to get into wind foiling. I'll have myself a 146ltr foil board later this week and want to use my existing sails, probably my 7.8 and 8.6mtr sails. I'm 125 kg and know what to rig for standard windsurfing depending on wind. However for foil size to buy, I have zero idea how that works. I'm getting the impression that the front wing of the foil needs to be larger for my size? However what are some size recommendations for big guys?

Regards
Mike

Is the board that you are going to use a tuttle box or does it also have the option of the twin tracks?

For your weight you will need something around 2400 cm2 (surface area).

Not all carbon masts are stiffer than aluminum as it depends on the manufacture.

That's a good question, I was wondering , as its deep tuttle and curious if thats better or worse then the twin track boards Ive been seeing in some facebook board builders groups. To be honest, the board im getting, whilst is deep tuttle, ive been told the fin box was custom installed for prev owner to use for foiling, but the question I guess here is, can that fin box support my weight under foil use?

Select to expand quote

thedoor said..
If your gonna use big sails like that you probably want a more race oriented foil eg IQ foil. But you need to decide what style of foil riding you are interested in? Free ride or free race. If interested in freeride then you might need to come down in sail size

Ive really only got what I have got for now, got a 6.5 non cambered , 7.8 loftsails switchblade and 8.6 sailworks NX, im experienced with those latter two cambered sails.

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Sandman1221 said..
If you have the cash, go with an all carbon foil, especially if your are in salt water. Companies based in France do all carbon. AFS has an 85 cm mast with largest wing at 1080 cm2, and that may be too small for you. Aeromod in France also, makes a bigger wing. Not many companies doing all carbon, but is pretty much maintenance free. Look around here at all the issues with SlingShot and other big name foils with aluminum masts and fuselages, wings breaking off, masts breaking off of fuselages, you being a heavy weight will get more of those problems than the light weights. And you are going to flex the aluminum masts a lot. Zfin foils are all carbon race foils, Lokefoil has some all carbon foils, and some with aluminum fuselages, but race foils.

this is something i need to better understand, the alloy vs carbon masts and how my weight will affect them etc. Ive seen some pics online of warped alloy masts.

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hobie14t said..

Sandman1221 said..
If you have the cash, go with an all carbon foil, especially if your are in salt water. Companies based in France do all carbon. AFS has an 85 cm mast with largest wing at 1080 cm2, and that may be too small for you. Aeromod in France also, makes a bigger wing. Not many companies doing all carbon, but is pretty much maintenance free. Look around here at all the issues with SlingShot and other big name foils with aluminum masts and fuselages, wings breaking off, masts breaking off of fuselages, you being a heavy weight will get more of those problems than the light weights. And you are going to flex the aluminum masts a lot. Zfin foils are all carbon race foils, Lokefoil has some all carbon foils, and some with aluminum fuselages, but race foils.

this is something i need to better understand, the alloy vs carbon masts and how my weight will affect them etc. Ive seen some pics online of warped alloy masts.

Being all carbon does not necessarily mean it's stronger. Cross section size of masts and fuses is the key. There are a number of well design alloy masts and fuse combos out there.

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hobie14t said..

CoreAS said..

hobie14t said..
Hi,
I've finally decided it's time to get into wind foiling. I'll have myself a 146ltr foil board later this week and want to use my existing sails, probably my 7.8 and 8.6mtr sails. I'm 125 kg and know what to rig for standard windsurfing depending on wind. However for foil size to buy, I have zero idea how that works. I'm getting the impression that the front wing of the foil needs to be larger for my size? However what are some size recommendations for big guys?

Regards
Mike

Is the board that you are going to use a tuttle box or does it also have the option of the twin tracks?

For your weight you will need something around 2400 cm2 (surface area).

Not all carbon masts are stiffer than aluminum as it depends on the manufacture.

That's a good question, I was wondering , as its deep tuttle and curious if thats better or worse then the twin track boards Ive been seeing in some facebook board builders groups. To be honest, the board im getting, whilst is deep tuttle, ive been told the fin box was custom installed for prev owner to use for foiling, but the question I guess here is, can that fin box support my weight under foil use?

For free-foiling manufactures have steered towards twin tracks and what they call "pedal stool" you fasten down with 4 bolts and it spreads the loads evenly.

Most of us did learn on Tuttle box and of course you have various options of that... for example the slingshot Tuttle box is different than Neil Pryde and theirs is different from Moses/SAB etc. and sometimes you have to get the drill out and make adjustments.

There is a lot of pressure on that foil and having a solid foil ready box and connection is essential, as I have seen a few disasters and folk losing their foils to Davy Jones Locker.

The slingshot phantasm is pedal stool mount but will easily take your weight, it's one of the strongest and stiffest carbon or aluminum masts on the market and the fuselage to mast connection is wider and stronger than other brands. Materials and construction are much different now than 3-4 years ago and if you can afford it try and get a newer foil.

The issues other bring up was on the original hover glide system which is still a great foil as long as you take care of it and clean it regularly when used in salt water. The infinity 99 hover glide is a heavy weight special and when I was around 92kg I could get foiling in 10-11 mph.

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hobie14t said..

thedoor said..
If your gonna use big sails like that you probably want a more race oriented foil eg IQ foil. But you need to decide what style of foil riding you are interested in? Free ride or free race. If interested in freeride then you might need to come down in sail size

Ive really only got what I have got for now, got a 6.5 non cambered , 7.8 loftsails switchblade and 8.6 sailworks NX, im experienced with those latter two cambered sails.

6.5 non cambered is gonna be good

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hobie14t said..

thedoor said..
If your gonna use big sails like that you probably want a more race oriented foil eg IQ foil. But you need to decide what style of foil riding you are interested in? Free ride or free race. If interested in freeride then you might need to come down in sail size

Ive really only got what I have got for now, got a 6.5 non cambered , 7.8 loftsails switchblade and 8.6 sailworks NX, im experienced with those latter two cambered sails.

Ultimately you're gonna want to buy foiling sails but what you have will be great to start with. I have the 8.6 NX also - wonderful sail but it HATES being underdownhauled so it may not offer much more power than the Loftsails. You can remove the bottom cam from the NX when foiling for a little easier rotation. I also have an 8.5 Flyer FR which seems like it might be a waste but it truly isn't - first of all it's much lighter and secondly the drive is much more front handed so the Flyer is for 9-15 on a foil and the NX is happy 13-20 on a fin.

Ignore people who say you can start out foiling on much smaller sails - they don't understand the difference that bodyweight makes. Start out no more than 1M smaller than you'd use on a fin. You'll have a much better time being a little overpowered than never getting up on the foil. Once you're more skilled you CAN go to smaller sails but you may not want to. One of the very few advantages of being heavy is we can hold down big sails. I'm often on that 8.5 foiling when smaller sailors are already finning of 7.5-80. I've found that when rigging big you don't have to bag the sail out as much - just downhaul and outhaul properly and the sail will be much more slippery especially upwind,

The Axis is a very nice foil, rises really smoothly and hangs in at high speed, although I agree with CoreAS - I'd rather see you start on something over 2000cmsq.

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Awalkspoiled said..

Ignore people who say you can start out foiling on much smaller sails - they don't understand the difference that bodyweight makes. Start out no more than 1M smaller than you'd use on a fin. You'll have a much better time being a little overpowered than never getting up on the foil. Once you're more skilled you CAN go to smaller sails but you may not want to. One of the very few advantages of being heavy is we can hold down big sails. I'm often on that 8.5 foiling when smaller sailors are already finning of 7.5-80. I've found that when rigging big you don't have to bag the sail out as much - just downhaul and outhaul properly and the sail will be much more slippery especially upwind,

This is good advice. Being totally clueless how to pump effectively onto a foil, I needed lots of power to explore and get the feel. Until I was up on foil and experienced it, I didn't even know what to feel.

This is a short clip of the infinity 99 with an 8.0 on a light wind day, really happy to get long stable rides in both straps. Almost 2 years ago!

If you do get ahold of an infinity 99, make sure you rig it in the C position. I struggled a lot with my foil in the wrong position, really not having a clue and Slingshot's manual recommending the opposite setting for some reason. And not knowing how big to rig.

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Awalkspoiled said..

hobie14t said..

Ive really only got what I have got for now, got a 6.5 non cambered , 7.8 loftsails switchblade and 8.6 sailworks NX, im experienced with those latter two cambered sails.

Ignore people who say you can start out foiling on much smaller sails - they don't understand the difference that bodyweight makes. Start out no more than 1M smaller than you'd use on a fin.

Good advice, but with one caveat. It depends on the size of foil. The larger the foil the smaller the sail required to fly.

When I started, I weighed 90kgs and I used a Severne 7m foil glide with a Fanatic Flow 1500 foil. This worked in 10 to 15 kts. I like foil wave riding so prefer smaller sails so I now use a 6m sail and Severne Redwing 1400 in the same wind.

At your weight, you will need a +1800 mm2 foil (eg Severne Redwing 1800, Starboard Supercruiser) with the 7.8 m sail. As you get better, you'll learn how to pump up on your 6.6 in the same wind. But then again it depends what type of foiling you want to do