So.... how are you guys that water start doing it? I have tried it, but when the wind is comfortable for the sail choose to use, there doesn't seem to be enough power to lift me out of the water. Does anyone have some links to videos that I can check out?

Don't kick.
Grab 2" from bottom of mast.
Grab foot of sail.
Bend ze knees.
When torso is over the board, stand up.

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excav8ter said..
So.... how are you guys that water start doing it? I have tried it, but when the wind is comfortable for the sail choose to use, there doesn't seem to be enough power to lift me out of the water. Does anyone have some links to videos that I can check out?

This one is for very light wind
www.instagram.com/p/CBJ9M5bgVA3/

But most of the time I can get away with front hand on mast and back hand on front of the boom. I keep the front foot on the board near the mast and sink the rail a bit and let the board round downwind and that pulls me up.

This one too

.be&t=72

The wind does NOT lift the sail and you to your feet!
Light wind just holds the sail up, and you climb up to your feet lightly holding the rig.

Yes, the historic wisdom has been that if you can waterstart a particular sail, it is too big for foiling in that wind.

OK, fine. People are getting past that and are waterstarting. The new gear makes all this more possible than before.

What I see people doing is to "stand" on the foil wing while setting up. This lets you avoid kicking things down there.

I find that foil boards are easier to waterstart because there's so much buoyancy around the footstraps and the tail. Also the foil acts like a massive fin giving you something to push against. It takes a bit of getting used to but being able to put loads of pressure through your rear foot without sinking the tail or pushing it downwind makes a big difference. I can waterstart my Wizard 103L with perhaps 1 m2 less sail than a similar sized windsurf board.

I find no difference in water starting say...a 5.0 in 13 mph breeze.
I put FRONT foot on first.
Back foot first would push tail downwind, and sink it some.
Front you use the whole rail, like slogging. You can slog upwind.

I find waterstarting with a foil easier. It provides more resistance to board movement than a conventional board. Back foot on first for me. Tail doesn't sink or move around as much. Kick with the front foot (taking care not to hit the front foil). Or as has been suggested, I occasionally use the front wing as a step if I'm using a shortish mast.

Just practice alot, I use the same technique I use with normal kit, but can waterstart my 4.9 in 10-12 knots, about the same I need to get it flying.

Also, get a sinker. I didnt really learn waterstarting "properly" until I got a foilboard 10L below my weight, then you have to, also if there is no wind! Ofcourse I could waterstart my wave and slalomkit, but in very light wind waterstarting the foil is a different trick.

I'm fairly new w/ waterstarting and I got a bit overpowered with my foiling kit and was able to do it without maiming myself. Just tried to be aware of where the foil is/where my feet are and be careful.

Really overpowered I'm in the backstrap first, doesn't matter if fin or foil, when waterstarting.

I find with the SS i76 I'm two sail sizes down from windsurfing, with the i65 I'm one.

With the i76 perfectly powered I find I have enough to waterstart. Really bend the knees and throw the sail into the wind to pull you across onto the board. Sometimes I even end up with my forward knee on the board, and push up from there.

Occasionally if I'm in 5.3 conditions and underpowered I might uphaul, but enough to foil should be enough to waterstart.

Not the best video, but this is my primary waterstart on the foil. As LeeD said, stay in a squat until the sail is past vertical. Think about being in a ball and rolling up onto the board (2 feet on board makes this possible). It is quite different than the traditional one foot stand up on the board technique, that most of us use in higher wind.

.be

When it is too light for this I move bottom hand to sail as posted above, when windier I do regular waterstart. I probably uphaul less than 10% of the time.

I also agree that it is relatively easy to waterstart when you have enough sail to get on foil with the I76. I have found it requires a bit different technique than waterstarts on a sinker windsurf board where I could easily sink the tail of the board and pull it under my body. As others have noted, most foil boards have fat thick tails that won't sink.
The solution that I've found is to put my feet on the centerline of the board and curl into a ball, to get as close to the board as possible, while having one hand on the mast and one on the boom as far back as I can reach. I point the board a bit downwind and when I feel a gust I will reach up and forward with my hands. This will pull me up on the board and then I can pump the sail to get out of the curled up position to standing.
I struggled with getting all the way up until I realized how important it was to have both of my feet on the centerline of the board. With a sinker I can have my feet near the rail and get up easily, that doesn't work for me with the foil board.
I've also found it's significantly easier to waterstart using the Goya Fringe sails vs similarly sized Flyer or Naish Force 5 sails. I think it's because the Fringe pumps better.
Thanks to thedoor for a bit of private online coaching when I was first sorting out how to waterstart on the foil board. There are two of us that consistently foil in Corpus Christi bay and we have come to the conclusion that uphauling is nearly impossible when the wind picks up. I'm in the water a bunch since I can't consistently jibe yet so waterstarting is my friend.

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ccflyer said..
I also agree that it is relatively easy to waterstart when you have enough sail to get on foil with the I76. I have found it requires a bit different technique than waterstarts on a sinker windsurf board where I could easily sink the tail of the board and pull it under my body. As others have noted, most foil boards have fat thick tails that won't sink.
The solution that I've found is to put my feet on the centerline of the board and curl into a ball, to get as close to the board as possible, while having one hand on the mast and one on the boom as far back as I can reach. I point the board a bit downwind and when I feel a gust I will reach up and forward with my hands. This will pull me up on the board and then I can pump the sail to get out of the curled up position to standing.
I struggled with getting all the way up until I realized how important it was to have both of my feet on the centerline of the board. With a sinker I can have my feet near the rail and get up easily, that doesn't work for me with the foil board.
I've also found it's significantly easier to waterstart using the Goya Fringe sails vs similarly sized Flyer or Naish Force 5 sails. I think it's because the Fringe pumps better.
Thanks to thedoor for a bit of private online coaching when I was first sorting out how to waterstart on the foil board. There are two of us that consistently foil in Corpus Christi bay and we have come to the conclusion that uphauling is nearly impossible when the wind picks up. I'm in the water a bunch since I can't consistently jibe yet so waterstarting is my friend.

Nice!

A small tip from me to prevent you from kicking the foils (very nasty cuts if you do) is to actually "rest" a foot on the front wing while in the water so you know exactly where it is as you are about to water start. Cant do this if you are doing the 2 foot version obviously.

If you have both feet on the board, how do you kick the foil?

Good tips ya'll thanks for sharing! I have been feeling pretty good about my water starts but its clear there is more opportunity for me to improve.

On a similar note, does anybody put their back foot on the fuse? I did this when learning to foil to get a sense of where the wings were. Then I found if the foot is back at the stab it weathervanes the board nearly head to wind so you can see the wind while you wait for a gust. When the puff arrives I push off the back leg and the board ends up on a reach as my body comes on the board.

Slide the back foot near the mast and you can make headway forward with your front leg extended out in front to "depth sound" your way into a shore where you can't read the depth visually. I jokingly call fall sailing in South Carolina "Hot Chocolate" cause the water is warmer than the air, its brown and the white caps look like marshmallows!

will have to try the water start, but for starting in chest deep water I do an easy beach start, ala Guy Cribb, sail is at right angle to board and parallel to the wind with end of boom touching the bottom of the bay, from the backend of board put left hand on mast and right hand on board center and push up onto the board placing right knee on board deck, pivot around with left hand pushing on mast so boom end stays pressed on bay bottom, then use uphaul line to pull sail straight up out of the water (almost no effort needed), then take off. It really is easy, thanks Guy Cribb!

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LeeD said..
If you have both feet on the board, how do you kick the foil?

Umm. Read the last sentence in my last post

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here is a video from lennart neubauer

m.facebook.com/lennartneubauer.G734/videos/351074535906530/?locale2=de_DE


beside the nice frontflip u can see at the end how he water starts even in light wind by grabbing the sail at the bottom.

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ccflyer said..
There are two of us that consistently foil in Corpus Christi bay

Where do you guys typically launch? We are just about to head down to CC. I had not planned to even bring the 90 cm mast since we've only foiled at BIB so far, but the swell in the bay could be fun foiling or winging.

Just like with windsurfing, waterstarting with a cammed sail is 5x harder than with a no-cam sail. You have to pop the cams by hand. That takes time and effort (I am an old geezer), and it can easily break the battens from the hand-induced point load.

So, if I want to waterstart that day, I try to pick a no-cam sail (if I even have one nearly that size). Otherwise, I end up waterstarting clew first, or just waterstarting the other direction. Anything to avoid popping the cams by hand.

Or just uphaul. It's usually faster.

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r3st0ck said..

here is a video from lennart neubauer

m.facebook.com/lennartneubauer.G734/videos/351074535906530/?locale2=de_DE


beside the nice frontflip u can see at the end how he water starts even in light wind by grabbing the sail at the bottom.

Nice. Thanks

Water starting a cam sail is fine. Even stubborn orators only require a quick shake to rotate the cams.
However, in sub 7 knot breeze, you might uphaul.

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boardsurfr said..

ccflyer said..
There are two of us that consistently foil in Corpus Christi bay

Where do you guys typically launch? We are just about to head down to CC. I had not planned to even bring the 90 cm mast since we've only foiled at BIB so far, but the swell in the bay could be fun foiling or winging.

The best foil launching spots for Corpus Christi Bay will change depending on wind direction and the desire to use a mast longer than 70cm. The overall depth of the bay is more than 10ft though the waist-deep shallows can extend hundreds of yards past the shoreline at the classic windsurf launch spots, which is great for windsurfing but creates a situation that ranges from sucky to dangerous when foiling. I've learned the hard way not to be hooked and hauling ass when coming to shore on a foil. Hitting a sand bar is not fun.

SE winds- McGee Beach next to the Emerald Hotel gets deep quickly and I use a 90 mast. Oleander Point in Cole Park is the classic windsurfing launch but I will only use a 70cm mast there due to the extended shallows. At high tide you can foil almost to shore with a 70cm mast. Parking is easy at Oleander and a bit tricky for McGee Beach.

N and NE winds - North Beach is a great launching spot with easy parking and a quick drop off into deeper water. I use a 90cm mast at North Beach.

NW winds - I'm back at Oleander Point on a 70cm mast. It's possible to launch at McGee beach but the downtown buildings can throw a bit of wind shadow near shore.

I haven't foiled at BIB but it might be a great place to experience wind with flat water and work on my foil gibes. I used to go windsurfing at BIB but haven't been there in decades. CC Bay never has flat water with wind.

Good stuff to read. Thanks for the input, replies and suggestions. I'm going to try and work on waterstarts a bit next year. Might need to work on some stretching and flexibility this winter to aid in that learning process.

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ccflyer said..

boardsurfr said..

ccflyer said..
There are two of us that consistently foil in Corpus Christi bay

Where do you guys typically launch? We are just about to head down to CC. I had not planned to even bring the 90 cm mast since we've only foiled at BIB so far, but the swell in the bay could be fun foiling or winging.

The best foil launching spots for Corpus Christi Bay will change depending on wind direction and the desire to use a mast longer than 70cm. The overall depth of the bay is more than 10ft though the waist-deep shallows can extend hundreds of yards past the shoreline at the classic windsurf launch spots, which is great for windsurfing but creates a situation that ranges from sucky to dangerous when foiling. I've learned the hard way not to be hooked and hauling ass when coming to shore on a foil. Hitting a sand bar is not fun.

SE winds- McGee Beach next to the Emerald Hotel gets deep quickly and I use a 90 mast. Oleander Point in Cole Park is the classic windsurfing launch but I will only use a 70cm mast there due to the extended shallows. At high tide you can foil almost to shore with a 70cm mast. Parking is easy at Oleander and a bit tricky for McGee Beach.

N and NE winds - North Beach is a great launching spot with easy parking and a quick drop off into deeper water. I use a 90cm mast at North Beach.

NW winds - I'm back at Oleander Point on a 70cm mast. It's possible to launch at McGee beach but the downtown buildings can throw a bit of wind shadow near shore.

I haven't foiled at BIB but it might be a great place to experience wind with flat water and work on my foil gibes. I used to go windsurfing at BIB but haven't been there in decades. CC Bay never has flat water with wind.

I hear you about hitting sandbars!, but with steady wind was thinking I could stay high enough to foil across shallow water, say 3 feet deep. As long as there are no swells to deal with.

BiB (Bird Island Basin) is not recommended for foiling. Too shallow everywhere. Maybe the SS 15" strut will work there, but even the 24" strut will hit bottom too much.

I used to sail my formula gear there. My 70cm fin was always ticking the bottom, but my 64 cm fin was ok. If you can get way down there to the barge channel you get deeper water, but ya gotta get there through the shallow stuff first.

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Sandman1221 said..

ccflyer said..

boardsurfr said..

ccflyer said..
There are two of us that consistently foil in Corpus Christi bay

Where do you guys typically launch? We are just about to head down to CC. I had not planned to even bring the 90 cm mast since we've only foiled at BIB so far, but the swell in the bay could be fun foiling or winging.

The best foil launching spots for Corpus Christi Bay will change depending on wind direction and the desire to use a mast longer than 70cm. The overall depth of the bay is more than 10ft though the waist-deep shallows can extend hundreds of yards past the shoreline at the classic windsurf launch spots, which is great for windsurfing but creates a situation that ranges from sucky to dangerous when foiling. I've learned the hard way not to be hooked and hauling ass when coming to shore on a foil. Hitting a sand bar is not fun.

SE winds- McGee Beach next to the Emerald Hotel gets deep quickly and I use a 90 mast. Oleander Point in Cole Park is the classic windsurfing launch but I will only use a 70cm mast there due to the extended shallows. At high tide you can foil almost to shore with a 70cm mast. Parking is easy at Oleander and a bit tricky for McGee Beach.

N and NE winds - North Beach is a great launching spot with easy parking and a quick drop off into deeper water. I use a 90cm mast at North Beach.

NW winds - I'm back at Oleander Point on a 70cm mast. It's possible to launch at McGee beach but the downtown buildings can throw a bit of wind shadow near shore.

I haven't foiled at BIB but it might be a great place to experience wind with flat water and work on my foil gibes. I used to go windsurfing at BIB but haven't been there in decades. CC Bay never has flat water with wind.

I hear you about hitting sandbars!, but with steady wind was thinking I could stay high enough to foil across shallow water, say 3 feet deep. As long as there are no swells to deal with.

I was under the same impression that I could carefully foil into shore by maintaining the same height above the water and gently "feel" for the bottom. I had watched kite guys bring their foils right up to the shore before jumping off. I had done this same thing successfully a few sessions and then one day ended up hitting a sandbar much earlier than I expected, probably due to changes in tidal level. I ended up with a leg impact injury that kept me off the water for a couple of months while healing up.

I am now very cautious when foiling near shallow water.. Now I make sure I'm not hooked in and also don't have my feet deep in the footstraps when I'm going back to shore through the shallows. If you hit a sandbar with the tip of the wing at speed, the board will have a full stop and your body keeps going. If you are hooked in you get slammed against the board and mast. It's not fun.

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segler said..
BiB (Bird Island Basin) is not recommended for foiling. Too shallow everywhere. Maybe the SS 15" strut will work there, but even the 24" strut will hit bottom too much.

Glad I did not know that, since I have foiled there 21 times this year, always with a 28" (71 cm) mast. Had a great session yesterday, when Andy Brandt helped me to (almost) foil through a few jibes, and improved my upwind and pumping technique. Most productive private lesson ever!
The only issue with water depth I had was a bit of dredging near the launch area when I was slogging, in the area I highlighted in red:
It did not stop me completely, but rather felt like I was mowing the weed growing on the ground. It required a bit of backwards sailing to get rid of the weeds to get going afterwards. I never had any ground contact further out, even when starting again after crashes. My wife on a wing with the 71 cm mast never had any problems (but neither did she slog much). Andy, with the 24" mast, had no problem slogging through the areas where I mowed the weeds.
It's a close game, so watching the water levels makes sense. Yesterday was just around 0.0 ft, according to tidesandcurrents.noaa.gov/waterlevels.html?id=8776139. Between mid-January and mid-March, the water level was about 10-15 cm higher most of the time, with only 4 days at or below 0 ft. During that time, I saw guys go out with 90 cm masts; Andy also used a 90 cm mast late November / early December when the water level was around 1 ft. Last Saturday, though, when it was 0.2 ft, Mark could not get out on his longer mast, which I believe was 85 cm.

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ccflyer said..
I haven't foiled at BIB but it might be a great place to experience wind with flat water and work on my foil gibes.

Yes, BIB in SE is indeed a great place to work on jibes and tricks. The lack of chop and currents makes things a whole lot easier than any other place I have foiled at so far. And for another week or so, you can take private lessons with one of the best windsurf and foil instructors there is. I need another session or two to practice what I learned about jibing, but then it will be straight on to 360s - unless it gets so windy that the speed gear gets a turn .