I've been puzzled a bit by having very different sessions on my Supercruiser foil. I'm trying to switch to Starboard from a Slingshot 84 after having a couple of broken fuses and frequent problems with screws coming loose. But while 95% or more of the sessions on the i84 are pure fun, the frequency of frustrating sessions on the Supercruiser seems a lot higher. I'm wondering if it's me, or the foil, or if I'm just missing something.

As an example, I had a great session on the SC 1700 two days ago, and a lousy session yesterday. The difference was a bit less, but gustier, wind on the bad day, so I used a FoilGlide 7.0 instead of a Freek 5.6. I love the FoilGlide with the GT-R+ setup, and also had great sessions with it on the SS 84. But yesterday, I had more catapults in 20 minutes than I usually have in 10 longer sessions. The typical scenario was that the foil started to accelerate and go higher in a gust, and I could not control it by shifting weight, pushing the windward
rail down, going upwind, or sheeting in. Usually, one or two of these things is enough to regain control on the i84 or GT-R+ (800 front wing).
I eventually gained some control after moving the fuse from neutral to "minimum lift" and adding outhaul to the sail, but this setup felt unbalanced and slow.

I'm on a Stingray 140, with the i84 in C position most of the way forward in the tracks, and the Supercruiser all the way forward. Mast length is 92 cm for the SC, and 91 cm for the i84 (sometimes 71 for low tide sessions). Usually no straps, except for the GT-R+ where I use front straps. Typical conditions have ~ 2 ft chop and swell, which can be quite fun to play with. The GT-R+ mostly comes out on offshore days, or if we go to other (flat) spots. On the typical choppy days, it can be a bit scary, and not quite the right toy to play with the swell.

The symptoms you describe are what I associate with having the foil and the mastfoot too close together - too much lifting power. Sounds like it would be worth moving that SC back in the tracks to get the center of lift further away from the mast. The lift of the SC is centered a little further forward than the i84 anyway, and even though the 1700 has less surface area, where the i84 almost seems to settle down when it's going fast, the SC keeps lifting. Trying to kill the lift by tweaking the stab and lessening the power of the sail are just bandaids. Once the sail is further away from the foil I bet you'll be able to control the lift with mastfoot pressure along with your own weight distribution.

Hi Peter, I have been using the super cruiser for a couple of years now and after trying multiple adjustments when I first had it this is what I have come up with for how I like to ride. I don't have tracks in my board and I do use front straps and half straps at the back. FYI I am 95kg.
Ctr of base to front tuttle screw 1025mm
Back screw of front straps to front tuttle screw 425mm
Stab position as pictured

Also front wing pushed all the way on to the fuse.
I use these settings for all conditions with a 5.4 - 7.0 sails and never need to change. This gives me a good combination of lift, speed and control.
The 1700 can be influenced alot by big chop and swell but once you know what to expect from it it's not usually hard to control. If nicely powered up you should be able to cruise around all day at 17-18kn with the odd squirt of 20-21.
Make sure your front wing screws stay tight, I have suffered a lot with wing wobble from the screws coming lose so have now drilled a third set of holes in the wing to line up with the forward hole on the fuse. No problem since.
If you can get your hands on a smaller front wing I would highly recommend it for stronger winds. When I change to the 1300 all the above settings remain the same.
I'm sure some will disagree with my settings but hope this helps.

On my Supercruiser I preferred wing forward and stab back. But I was using it on a deep tuttle board with the front bolt 40" from the mast base and I much prefer front foot pressure.
Eventually I got the E-type 1300, that wing is a significant upgrade in terms of speed and glide but still slows down to play on swell.

I had a Supercruiser and found it very back foot heavy unless I ran the wing in the forward position. I also found it overpowered (wanted to breach) quickly in gusts and swell. Nothing wrong with the foil, it is what it is, a low aspect cruiser. 99% of my issues are skill limitations, Roger is much more proficient. Regardless, I've moved to a GTR+ now and much prefer it for what I do (mowing the grass)

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Stretchy said..
I had a Supercruiser and found it very back foot heavy unless I ran the wing in the forward position. I also found it overpowered (wanted to breach) quickly in gusts and swell. Nothing wrong with the foil, it is what it is, a low aspect cruiser. 99% of my issues are skill limitations, Roger is much more proficient. Regardless, I've moved to a GTR+ now and much prefer it for what I do (mowing the grass)

That's very similar to my experience, all the way to the skill limitations . I have put the wing quite far forward to get more even weight distribution at lower speeds, but that makes it quite hard to control when in gusts. This behavior is quite different from the GTR+, which stays more neutral. Our home spot had nice swell to play with most days, though, and I find that drawing squiggly lines into the swell is an aweful lot of fun. Just have to figure out how to do it with the Supercruiser.

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Swindy said..
Hi Peter, I have been using the super cruiser for a couple of years now and after trying multiple adjustments when I first had it this is what I have come up with for how I like to ride. I don't have tracks in my board and I do use front straps and half straps at the back. FYI I am 95kg.
Ctr of base to front tuttle screw 1025mm
Back screw of front straps to front tuttle screw 425mm
Stab position as picturedAlso front wing pushed all the way on to the fuse.
I use these settings for all conditions with a 5.4 - 7.0 sails and never need to change. This gives me a good combination of lift, speed and control.
The 1700 can be influenced alot by big chop and swell but once you know what to expect from it it's not usually hard to control. If nicely powered up you should be able to cruise around all day at 17-18kn with the odd squirt of 20-21.
Make sure your front wing screws stay tight, I have suffered a lot with wing wobble from the screws coming lose so have now drilled a third set of holes in the wing to line up with the forward hole on the fuse. No problem since.
If you can get your hands on a smaller front wing I would highly recommend it for stronger winds. When I change to the 1300 all the above settings remain the same.
I'm sure some will disagree with my settings but hope this helps.

Hi Roger, thanks for all the info! I got a 1300 front wing because of what you had posted here about it, and because I had found smaller Slingshot wings to be more fun when the wind picks up.

The interesting thing is that your setup has the front wing much further back than I do. Others who love the SC reported the same, while Stretchy, who has the wing more forward like I have it, also reports control problems.

Another big difference is that you are cruising about 4 knots faster than I am. Part of my problem may be that I'm just foiling the SC too slowly. At lower speed, a bit of extra power from a gust leads directly to more speed and more lift, which is hard to control with the wing far forward. Add some sudden lift from chop, and there comes the catapult! At your higher speed, the change in apparent wind strength from a gust is lower, and the acceleration is also lower, since you're closer to the top speed of the foil, so the added lift will be lower.

I'll definitely try settings closer to yours, and try going faster before the gusts hit :-).

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Awalkspoiled said..
The symptoms you describe are what I associate with having the foil and the mastfoot too close together - too much lifting power. Sounds like it would be worth moving that SC back in the tracks to get the center of lift further away from the mast. The lift of the SC is centered a little further forward than the i84 anyway, and even though the 1700 has less surface area, where the i84 almost seems to settle down when it's going fast, the SC keeps lifting. Trying to kill the lift by tweaking the stab and lessening the power of the sail are just bandaids. Once the sail is further away from the foil I bet you'll be able to control the lift with mastfoot pressure along with your own weight distribution.

Your description of the lift issues seems to get to the cause of my problems. In conditions where I can just get onto the foil, the two wings are remarkably similar: lower wind limits are almost identical, speeds about the same, and both are quite sensitive to chop. With the front wings at a similar position, the weight distribution between the legs also feels similar. But while the i84 is perfectly happy to stay slow even in gusts, the SC is more efficient and gets faster, which then creates control issues.

The confusing thing about this is that the SC often feels a bit backfoot heavy in light conditions, even with the wing all the way forward in the mast tracks. That makes the idea of moving it back in the mast track counterintuitive. But I'll definitely try that next.

Thanks to everyone for the suggestions!

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boardsurfr said..

Swindy said..
Hi Peter, I have been using the super cruiser for a couple of years now and after trying multiple adjustments when I first had it this is what I have come up with for how I like to ride. I don't have tracks in my board and I do use front straps and half straps at the back. FYI I am 95kg.
Ctr of base to front tuttle screw 1025mm
Back screw of front straps to front tuttle screw 425mm
Stab position as picturedAlso front wing pushed all the way on to the fuse.
I use these settings for all conditions with a 5.4 - 7.0 sails and never need to change. This gives me a good combination of lift, speed and control.
The 1700 can be influenced alot by big chop and swell but once you know what to expect from it it's not usually hard to control. If nicely powered up you should be able to cruise around all day at 17-18kn with the odd squirt of 20-21.
Make sure your front wing screws stay tight, I have suffered a lot with wing wobble from the screws coming lose so have now drilled a third set of holes in the wing to line up with the forward hole on the fuse. No problem since.
If you can get your hands on a smaller front wing I would highly recommend it for stronger winds. When I change to the 1300 all the above settings remain the same.
I'm sure some will disagree with my settings but hope this helps.

Hi Roger, thanks for all the info! I got a 1300 front wing because of what you had posted here about it, and because I had found smaller Slingshot wings to be more fun when the wind picks up.

The interesting thing is that your setup has the front wing much further back than I do. Others who love the SC reported the same, while Stretchy, who has the wing more forward like I have it, also reports control problems.

Another big difference is that you are cruising about 4 knots faster than I am. Part of my problem may be that I'm just foiling the SC too slowly. At lower speed, a bit of extra power from a gust leads directly to more speed and more lift, which is hard to control with the wing far forward. Add some sudden lift from chop, and there comes the catapult! At your higher speed, the change in apparent wind strength from a gust is lower, and the acceleration is also lower, since you're closer to the top speed of the foil, so the added lift will be lower.

I'll definitely try settings closer to yours, and try going faster before the gusts hit :-).

May be I sail a bit more powered up than you Peter but the only time the foil feels back foot heavy is in lulls when the foil slows down close to stall speed and you have to pump the foil and sail to keep going. Generally my back foot is all the way back in the half strap going up wind and 3-4 inches further forward and a bit in board off the wind.
When the 1700 does start to become hard to control i usually just change down to the 1300 wing as it can handle quite a bit more power in the sail.
My favourite sails on both wings are 5.4 & 5.9 and this can give quite a big wind range. 4.7 on the1300 and 7 on the 1700 can also be alot of fun. If I need smaller or larger it's usually survival mode or a pump fest.
Once you have got your balance sorted it's a great foil for racking up some big sessions because it's so easy. I can only do half the km on my gtr on a similar day as its far more demanding on my poor fitness.
Enjoy.

Hi Swindy,

Could you please post photo of your board and footstraps position?

I've compared your rear footstrap position with my Starboard Freeride foil board and it's clear why it feels so backfoot heavy with SuperCruiser. I'm searching for foot hooks. Thank you very much!

Thanks for posting the footstrap pictures. Looks like the straps on you Alien might be a couple of cm further back than on my Stingray:
Tough to say exactly from the pictures. On the ones with the ruler, our back foot position would be pretty much the same when my back foot touches the inserts at the back.

The bigger difference is that I had my foil about 4.5 cm in front of the tuttle box. I'll definitely move it much closer to the tuttle box next time (hopefully today).

I had a session today with settings close to Swindy's, and they worked much better than what I had used previously. Foil mast was about 2-3 cm further back (centered in track, a bit before the tuttle box), and stab a bit on the "low lift" side of neutral. That worked surprisingly well, without being backfoot heavy. Things were fun until the wind increased from 22 to 30 mph (local meter, measured 10 m above ground) and the chop got big. I would have been overpowered on the 5.0 freestyle sail on the slapper in that wind.

Another difference in our setups is the distance between footstraps. Compared to the 47 cm distance in Roger's picture above, my front strap is about 4 cm further forward, when set in the 3rd (of 4) holes from the front. I foiled today with just one front strap to see how much of a difference it makes. On the side without the strap, I kept the front foot a bit further back (maybe 2-3 cm), which gave a better balance. On the strap side, I had more touchdowns, indicating that the strap was a bit too forward; the last hole would have been better. Seeing the setup pictures was really helpful.

Interestingly, the small Supercruiser foil behaved quite different from the Slingshot foils when playing with chop. On the i84 and TC68, I always had to step back when going down waves, and throw lots of weight on the back foot, to avoid touchdowns. The SC1300 was much more neutral, and I could just leave the back foot further forward, without needing to shift weight to the back. Very interesting to see the differences in foil setup and behavior.

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boardsurfr said..
I had a session today with settings close to Swindy's, and they worked much better than what I had used previously. Foil mast was about 2-3 cm further back (centered in track, a bit before the tuttle box), and stab a bit on the "low lift" side of neutral. That worked surprisingly well, without being backfoot heavy. Things were fun until the wind increased from 22 to 30 mph (local meter, measured 10 m above ground) and the chop got big. I would have been overpowered on the 5.0 freestyle sail on the slapper in that wind.

Another difference in our setups is the distance between footstraps. Compared to the 47 cm distance in Roger's picture above, my front strap is about 4 cm further forward, when set in the 3rd (of 4) holes from the front. I foiled today with just one front strap to see how much of a difference it makes. On the side without the strap, I kept the front foot a bit further back (maybe 2-3 cm), which gave a better balance. On the strap side, I had more touchdowns, indicating that the strap was a bit too forward; the last hole would have been better. Seeing the setup pictures was really helpful.

Interestingly, the small Supercruiser foil behaved quite different from the Slingshot foils when playing with chop. On the i84 and TC68, I always had to step back when going down waves, and throw lots of weight on the back foot, to avoid touchdowns. The SC1300 was much more neutral, and I could just leave the back foot further forward, without needing to shift weight to the back. Very interesting to see the differences in foil setup and behavior.

Glad you had a bit more success Peter