Has anyone come across the 1st and second vertical bolts coming loose on the 115+ fuselage? I have been tightening the bolts as tight as I dare with the standard keys. I find after an hour or so of foiling the bolts can undone with a screw driver. Does anyone use a torque wrench on them (if so what torque Nm?) or a thread adhesive all be it temporary

Have you tried teflon tape?

Mine will sometimes loosen but never have fallen out. I use tefgel every now and then to lube them, and alternate tightening them. I definitely can't hit each of the 3 fasteners once with the wrench, as inevitably the other 2 will pull the joint in alignment and thus loosen the first bolt.

One thing I've also seen, but haven't tried, is taping over the bolt heads once fastened. I think the racers do it for speed strreamlining but it could be an additional cheap retention option. They were using that aluminized tape.

They will end up loos(er) with the pressure from foiling on the main wing. Best thing you can do is give the front of the fuse a bit of a knock down when you're tightening them with the board inverted.
when i say they'll end up loose, not loose loose. You should still need a screwdriver to undo. But you may notice they don't feel as tight as when you did them up.

The official fix from SAB/Moses for this issue is teflon tabe

This has been a problem also for the SAB/Moses with the 2 bolt connection of fuse to mast. The lift from the main wing will tend to loosen the front bolt. I have even seen foilers come off the water with the front bolt completely gone. Everything about SAB/Moses is most excellent, but this connection was not a good design.

As mentioned above, teflon tape on the threads seems to work well. Even then I will always retighten after 20 minutes, then once again, and they then stay tight until I remove them for disassembly.

i use 6 Nm at the fuse.
because i sail mostly in fresh water i don't often disassemble. the screw will need retorquing at first then settle after 1 or 2 sessions.
i some times carry a key in my vest and check it on the water.
i use 4 Nm at the stabiliser and 5 at the wing.

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sarfendfatboy said..
Has anyone come across the 1st and second vertical bolts coming loose on the 115+ fuselage? I have been tightening the bolts as tight as I dare with the standard keys. I find after an hour or so of foiling the bolts can undone with a screw driver. Does anyone use a torque wrench on them (if so what torque Nm?) or a thread adhesive all be it temporary

thread tape, tef gel.
Use tefgel on wing and put between fuse and wing then put thread tape on the bolts that are coming loose then just leave them together?
Idk thats what i used to do with my old foil.

On my SAB/Moses system I got rid of the paper thin washers and replaced them with stainless split washers. Can't remember the size, but it would have been either #10 or #12. They are narrow enough to fit down into the holes. The advantage of this is that those split washers are a bit hard to get onto the bolt threads, but they stay put when the bolt is removed, and do a great job of preventing loosening. I use those AND teflon tape.

Best product I've found is Lanocote, also unlike Tefgel is environmentally safe and non-toxic.
The cross bolts do a lot in the Starboard system for rigidity because the mast doesn't use tapers on the sides.

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Grantmac said..
Best product I've found is Lanocote, also unlike Tefgel is environmentally safe and non-toxic.
The cross bolts do a lot in the Starboard system for rigidity because the mast doesn't use tapers on the sides.

Tef-gel is non-toxic and environmentally safe : www.tefgel.com.au/technical-information/

"Tef-Gel? contains no toxic chemicals, silicones, petroleum products, solvents or carcinogens. Tef-Gel? is not classed as a dangerous good. Tef-Gel? is safe to use not only near a complex aquatic marine environment, but submerged in it - without having an impact on the aquatic environment. Tef-Gel is not harmful or toxic for people, and is a very safe product to use."

Edit: seabreeze can't handle the TM unicode so you'll see question marks instead

Only the producer of Teflon considers it environmentally safe, it's not.
Kind of like how lead wasn't a problem in fuel.

You can do what you like. I'll use the product that both works better and doesn't contain PTFE.

which version fuselage and mast are you using?
when I bought my carbon IqFoil mast, I found that it didn't fit very deep into my existing 95+ fuselage, and the screws kept working loose as you describe.

However I purchased another 95+ fuselage, this time with a iqfoil stamp on the inside of the cutout, and this fits perfectly with the iqfoil mast, with no screw issues.

My old 95+ fuselage still fits perfectly with the standard 95 carbon V1 mast.

I feel, and I'm not certain about this, that the dimensions may have changed on starboard mast / fuselages.

anyone else had this thought, or have evidence that this is the case?

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RuddeBos said..
I feel, and I'm not certain about this, that the dimensions may have changed on starboard mast / fuselages.

anyone else had this thought, or have evidence that this is the case?

I think you are right. I have a few alu masts and one 85 cm carbon (bought used so no details). The carbon mast has a little plastic part that goes around the top to make it fit the fuselage. If they made masts with different dimensions at the fuse connection, it seems very likely that they also changed the dimensions for the fuse part. Considering how often they change other design aspects on the fuse, I would not all all be surprised if that happened more than once.

The starboard fuse/mast joint has a plastic shim/isolator piece. Those are the part that has a few different sizes to deal with tolerances at that joint. I've got two. One is too small and the mast/fuse wiggles if I bolt it together so I don't use it. The other is solid.

Not sure if oldern models didn't have that?

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Grantmac said..
Only the producer of Teflon considers it environmentally safe, it's not.
Kind of like how lead wasn't a problem in fuel.

You can do what you like. I'll use the product that both works better and doesn't contain PTFE.

Did further reading/research and you have a good point. Thanks.

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aeroegnr said..
The starboard fuse/mast joint has a plastic shim/isolator piece. Those are the part that has a few different sizes to deal with tolerances at that joint. I've got two. One is too small and the mast/fuse wiggles if I bolt it together so I don't use it. The other is solid.

Not sure if oldern models didn't have that?

I got 4 Starboard alu masts that don't have that piece. They fit perfectly into fuses from 3 different years, the newest one being a 105+ bought last year. Only the one carbon mast I have needs the extra plastic piece.

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boardsurfr said..

aeroegnr said..
The starboard fuse/mast joint has a plastic shim/isolator piece. Those are the part that has a few different sizes to deal with tolerances at that joint. I've got two. One is too small and the mast/fuse wiggles if I bolt it together so I don't use it. The other is solid.

Not sure if oldern models didn't have that?

I got 4 Starboard alu masts that don't have that piece. They fit perfectly into fuses from 3 different years, the newest one being a 105+ bought last year. Only the one carbon mast I have needs the extra plastic piece.

Ah, so it is the carbons only then? I did not know that.